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A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
325
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Posted - 2013.07.24 11:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:Make logi suits like logi ships in EvE, force logi players to actually be logi by removing weapon slots. Give logi suits dedicated slots for rep-tools with appropriate bonuses towards suits/vehicles/installations and reward them properly with WP.
My alt would happily lose the weapon in favour of pure logi plus bonuses and rewards.
In the short term, at a minimum, I see several issues that arise from your suggestion:
1. scale I.e. I assume that logistic support is generally tied into decent sized fleets. As such their defence is maintained by vessels with offensive capabilities. With hundreds or more ships in the fleet you can have a defence in depth when it comes to ensuring the Logi's survival. So the first issue is essentially the fact that battles in eve involve thousands of players where Dust is restricted to 16x16 and it may be a longtime before we get 48x48. Either way far short of an eve battle. As such your ability to defend your Logi is heavily restricted in Dust. It is far easier to bring a Logi in Dust under direct fire than it should be in Eve. Now you can say that Logi's also travel with small groups as well which leads to my next point
2. The environment. You have the ability to travel in eve. Their are quiet areas in eve and you are better able to choose your battles based on your knowledge of the local sector and/or system. For example you are unlikely to jump into a system where you know your current enemy has a substantial ship/player advantage. Please note I am ignoring tactics and strategy here where a small force may be used as a decoy or lure. In dust you have a lobby shooter which is purely PvP on a restricted map so you can not avoid battle at all and the enemy will generally have a similar number of players to you. In dust it is battle or nothing and you are constantly jumping into the unknown. Yes you could constantly leave battles where the enemy has the advantage but this would be very boring.
3. The Spawn. In half of the game modes your spawn is random. We have all spawned in the middle of the reds on the opposite side of the map. Now a solution would be uplinks but how many times have these been overrun or camped. Your ability to stay with your fleet is far greater in Eve then staying with your squad in Dust. As youhave no weapon you can not even take a red with you when you die. You are just a punching bag.
3a. Lucky random spawns. You spawn behind your enemy and they do not know for a few seconds and because it was a spawn there is no way to defend against it. You then proceed to drop remote explosives using your BPO suit and insta blap a bunch of proto suits including the Logi.
4. Staying behind the frontline.This is only possible if your team is in a position to force the pace of play I.e. capable of constantly overrunning the enemy or at least the ability to hold a defensive line. If they can not then you are screwed as there is nowhere you can run that the enemy can not get you unless you leave the battle. Without a weapon your sense of helplessness just becomes worse.
5. Variation and effectiveness. In eve you have fast frigates and powerful battle cruisers from tier 1 to 3. In eve as you move up in ship class and tier it becomes less likely someone from a lower tier and class being able to kill you all things being equal. Not impossible but more difficult then it is in Dust. As an FPS a new player has to have a reasonable chance of killing anything on the field, not a great chance but at least a reasonable one. So in this case you have a militia scout (tier 1 frigate) who either has REs or has a nack for cooking locus nades who has a much better chance of killing a well set up Proto Heavy or Logi ( tier 3 battle cruiser) than the equivalent event in eve. In both cases the Logi will be surrounded by a fleet or squad but in dust you have access to insta kill weapons at a lower level and even then each weapon types DPS is a matter of degree and not scale. You can argue about which suit would be equivalent to what ship but in terms of tank they are at the extremes of what you can do with dropsuits at the moment.
There are other reasons but these will do for now. Dust maps are smaller than eve, your ability to avoid direct fire in dust is lower than in eve, you can not avoid battle in Dust but you can in Eve, your "squad" in Eve can be far larger than is possible in Dust, access to high DPS "insta kill or quick kill" weapons are available at a lower SP level in Dust and can be fitted to very cheap militia fits which can be devastating against even proto fits especially when combined with random spawns.
In conclusion you can not simply take what works in Eve and put it into Dust as they are very different games built for very different markets. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
329
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Posted - 2013.07.24 20:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jaqen Morghalis wrote:[quote=ZDub 303]
For this reason, and this reason only, I would be ok with a ONE-TIME ONLY, OPTIONAL respec, but only when ALL the suits are finally where they want them to be.
My concern is similar to ZDubs in that at a minimum we are probably looking at November, approx date of next major content expansion, before we see all of the missing basic racial suits and probably a further 2 months of testing by the player base to determine whether the new suits are balanced.
However, based on how long it took to introduce a single additional Amarr racial heavy variant this could easily change to greater than a year before all basic racial suits are introduced let alone tested for balance.
Even ignoring factors like the PS4 appearing at the end of the year it is still too long to have so much SP tied up in a suit you do not want or enjoy. As others have said to those who are "complaining" or asking for "Respecs" if you do not like it leave.
Anybody still playing in 6 months will have probably skilled into a new suit by then but in all probability most who fall into the "unhappy" category will have left rather than worry about the next suit they skill into being "balanced".
If CCP is willing to consider Respecs, a big ask I know, then it is better that they start allowing them sooner rather than later while the consequences are minimal as we are still far away from combining eve and dusts economies and they can state that after this there will be no more Respecs as by this time all the basic stuff will have been introduced and balanced.
They could make a merging of the economies into a major event and publicise it as the last Respec ever but until then allow them to ensure you hold onto a reasonable number of FPS players.
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