(Ughhh, not this again)

The MD is an area denial, anti-rush weapon by design. It has horrendous DPS, (lower than a MLT AR) a slow moving projectile with falloff, low field longevity, slow reload speed, and it's useless against elevated opponents. People complain about it because they try engage a MD user in their primary situation and win. I've been using the MD since Chrome, during the nerf/bug at the start of Uprising, and I'm still using it now. Aside from the sight still being kind of useless, the MD is actually in a really good place with damage/splash, even if both are significantly lower compared to Chrome and dropsuit EHP got a significant buff.
If you see a MD on the kill feed, be careful in areas that have elevation and run the hell away when you start to take damage, not when your shields are down. It's called an area denial weapon because it's supposed to have enough of a radius and deal enough damage to deny someone of an area.

So after spending the entire weekend on one of my alts (Minmatar Assault) with dual flaylocks, Flaylock/AR, Flaylock/SMG, I have some thoughts to share. The idea of an alpha strike sidearm is interesting and creative, making the flaylock a fun to use weapon. If balanced properly, the flaylock should be at least powerful enough to be considered as a main weapon but with enough drawbacks to add some risk to the rewards of getting a kill with it. As of right now, we have a highly damaging weapon that's easy to fit, has plenty of ammo, and can be spammed for ungodly amounts of DPS. Personally, the damage and blast radius are fine, but it's the lenient fitting, high ammo capacity, and how easy you can spam shots that make the flaylock a problem:



Overall, the CPU/PG requirements have to be raised so everyone and the mother can't equip it and go buck wild. I'm thinking we make the costs significantly higher while taking a page from the specialist shotgun sub variant with more lenient requirements for the specialist pistols at the cost of ammunition capacity. (9~12 rounds) This way, you get a variant that's easier to equip, but doesn't have enough ammo to go around spamming while the standard ones have a decent ammo supply but require more CPU/PG so they have to give something up to fit it. This would be a good way to diminish a dual flaylock user's ammo capacity since they wouldn't be able to fit dual prototypes as well. The breach could probably benifit from a revamp as well, with a CPU/PG requirement similar to the specialists, but a splash or damage buff to make it more viable at the cost of the smaller clip.

Splash radius scaling is another issue that might need to be addressed since explosive weapons are more consistent in the the latest patch and the desynch issues are completely gone. But keep in mind that if the splash damage is reduced, damage might need to be increased across the board to compensate to keep the reward side of risk vs reward consistent while keeping the flaylock viable.



As I've already mentioned, it's not the damage that makes the flaylock imbalanced- it's the spam. So one good option would be to simply reduce the weapons RoF. (somewhere in the neighborhood of 60~70 rpm) This would cut down the rocket spam significantly, allowing someone on the opposing end to have a chance to fight back while forcing the user to aim. The flaylock already has a slower moving projectile compared to DoT based weapons, so this would force the user to make those shots matter more in an encounter instead of lobbing missiles in someone's general direction, hoping for a kill. Reload speed and ammunition capacity can remain untouched, but the damage might need a slight increase to keep with the weapons spike damage theme, keeping it more viable in CQC/Close engagements while requiring skill at mid range and beyond. Making this change would also significantly affect people using dual flaylocks as well since the advantage of having two of them is significantly reduced.

Another option to prevent spamming would be to reduce the ammunition capacity. One of things that keeps the MD balanced is that it has terrible field longevity. With 18 rounds (24 for the assault) you have to really choose your engagements with the MD while either staying in proximity of a supply depot or keeping a steady supply of nanohives. With 21 shots in reserve, the flaylock doesn't have this problem and has field longevity comparable to a riskier spike damage weapons like the shotgun. Reducing the reserve ammo down to maybe 12~9 rounds (9~6 for the specialist) would force a flaylock user to carefully choose when to engage and make nanohives a requirement when using it as a main weapon. Damage and splash could stay relatively same with this option because the weapon would be significantly starved, cutting down its field longevity. This wouldn't affect dual users as much at a glance, but with my idea of increasing the CPU/PG requirements as mentioned above, they would most likely be restricted to dual specialists anyway.

Reducing the reload speed could be another route. As of right now, the flaylock has a 0.5 sec faster reload speed than an AR. For as much damage as it does, there's no real risk in spamming rockets since you can simply pop in another clip in 2.5 seconds. By increasing how fast you need to reload would be a good way to give someone on the opposing end a chance to fight back and force the weapons' user have to make sure those 3-4 rockets connect. Now with this idea, we have to consider how it would affect players using dual flaylocks. So making significant changes to rate of fire or ammo capacity would still need to be considered as well. This is still a viable option, but would require the most work in the long run compared to the others.

These are only a few options I have in regards to spamming. I have some more in regards to splash damage and falloff. I'll probably get around to it after some more testing. But whatever changes CCP makes, I hope they keep it as a highly damaging weapon, but make it riskier to use outside of its niche situation because it really is a fun to use weapon.

Subjected to periodical edits for grammar.

Related to spamming RoF, could be the kick that the gun gets. The mass driver has a kickback that is about the same amount of time as the RoF allows. If you made a kick on the flaylock that is longer time to settle than the RoF, it would likely decrease accuracy of spammers, especially if it was a horizontal kick as well as vertical.

Wow - you want to reduce the ammo size to 12 or 6 when it already takes 2-3 shots (or more if its a heavy or you miss) to kill an opponent.

And you want to do this because people are spamming them?????

Lets give AR's 20 bullets, Grenades, 1 grenade, 1 murder taxi per team etc etc etc.

Lets just wait until CCP "balances" the weapon and then see what to do, if anything after that occurs.

Keep in mind I said that if you reduce the number of rounds, it would need to deal more damage to compensate. I want to keep it as a heavy damage weapon, not something you can use to spam in someone's general direction to get cheap kills.

Yes, that is why the best way to go about that is to reduce the RoF, and maybe shrink the blast radius a little.

That forces the user to have to pause and then refocus his aim on the opponent. If the enemy doesnt move and still gets blasted its all on them not the FP user.

I think that is the better way than changing a whole host of things.

On this (requirements) I agree but I wanted CCP to address this first.

I am sure they had some idea why they made it that way, the same way the Plasma Cannon has no PG as well. Maybe its for setups they intended people to use while overlooking how they could be exploited.

As a Scout I like how I can fit a Specialist and still fit my Scrambler while also keeping my Complex Extenders and Kin Cats.
- I also see though that for other classes with more resources these weapons allow for much more gear with little drawbacks.

There's nothing to stop them from adding completely distinct and new mechanics.

For example, you could have to 'arm' every new missile with an extra one or two presses of the trigger.

Phase one: Safety
Phase two: Armed
Phase three: Firing

Don't get me wrong I like the Mass Driver and Flaylock pistol, when a player shoots you with a precise hit, it is down right devastating. The problem with these very powerful weapons is the splash damage. When someone is shooting that weapon at me the first thing I do is run to cover and return fire so my opponent doesn't get a direct hit on me from behind cover. My every intent is for my cover and concealment to reduce the impact damage upon the projectile hitting the object thus protecting me from even the the most fearful thing of all the blinding splash damage, that blinds me from getting a direct shot on the enemy. It takes really no skill to use these god like weapons all you have to do is fire the weapon and in a instant the enemy is silently taking a dirt nap. The greatest thing about the weaponry on Dust is the fact that every weapon has it's perks, there' s always a counter, scramblers rifles demolish shields and AR's will destroy armor but the mass driver and flaylock will have running in the other direction because of the power of the weapon to knock out both shields and armor. I guarantee if the splash damage was reduced and I could get a clear shot on a guy with out being blinded, that weapon would be utterly useless to no skill mercenary. What are your opinions on the Mass Driver and Flaylock pistol ?

Don't get me wrong I like the Mass Driver and Flaylock pistol, when a player shoots you with a precise hit, it is down right devastating. The problem with these very powerful weapons is the splash damage. When someone is shooting that weapon at me the first thing I do is run to cover and return fire so my opponent doesn't get a direct hit on me from behind cover. My every intent is for my cover and concealment to reduce the impact damage upon the projectile hitting the object thus protecting me from even the the most fearful thing of all the blinding splash damage, that blinds me from getting a direct shot on the enemy. It takes really no skill to use these god like weapons all you have to do is fire the weapon and in a instant the enemy is silently taking a dirt nap. The greatest thing about the weaponry on Dust is the fact that every weapon has it's perks, there' s always a counter, scramblers rifles demolish shields and AR's will destroy armor but the mass driver and flaylock will have running in the other direction because of the power of the weapon to knock out both shields and armor. I guarantee if the splash damage was reduced and I could get a clear shot on a guy with out being blinded, that weapon would be utterly useless to no skill mercenary. What are your opinions on the Mass Driver and Flaylock pistol ?

I agree but CCP can kill that "dual wield" by not allowing side arms in light weapons slots.

How can a Mass Driver be that hard to fit on a Logi of all suits???

I agree but CCP can kill that "dual wield" by not allowing side arms in light weapons slots.

How can a Mass Driver be that hard to fit on a Logi of all suits???

its hard!!!! trust me- you have to sacrifice quality of equipment for increased survival and vice versa - its a dance :-

So playing a scout is electric boogaloo then.