Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
204
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 14:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
It would be nice to be able to set up a custom resistance tank for both shields and armor. When we deploy and find ourselves being dominated by a couple of people using Flaylocks or Contact grenades we should be able to switch to our suits tanked for explosive resistance. If we find that the other team is spamming Flux grenades we should be able to switch to a suit tanked to resist EM damage. This is an Eve concept and needs a presence in the Dust universe as well. All the work has already been done for this just bring it in please. |
ALPHA DECRIPTER
M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
92
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 15:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
There is a similar thread about this but yea I agree. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
226
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 15:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
I would tank myself for kinetic and explosive, as that covers most of the AV weapons used. Explosive armor hardener and a kinetic armor hardener FTW |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2883
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 15:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Needs to happen for the sake of more viable tanking options and narrowing the gap between shields vs armor. |
Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven EoN.
94
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 15:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah I definitely wish there was more dropsuit customization. Right now most people just go for stacking health or damage, which gets kind of boring.
I'm all for any sort of customization bonuses as long as they aren't super OP like Logi LAV resistances are at the moment. |
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
96
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 15:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:I would tank myself for kinetic and explosive, as that covers most of the AV weapons used. Explosive armor hardener and a kinetic armor hardener FTW
Your comment made me realize that ammunition types in Dust would be nice. Every suit would have one to three slots for ammunitiontypes which you can switch through during battle. This would of course mean that we'll have to pay for ammunition though. Not sure how well that would work, especially considering mechanics like Nano hives and Supply Depots. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
339
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 15:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
like this? |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
205
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 23:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah kind of like that but more like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faPTl6bq0mc or like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4lNr3e5Yc |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
205
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 23:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:I would tank myself for kinetic and explosive, as that covers most of the AV weapons used. Explosive armor hardener and a kinetic armor hardener FTW Your comment made me realize that ammunition types in Dust would be nice. Every suit would have one to three slots for ammunitiontypes which you can switch through during battle. This would of course mean that we'll have to pay for ammunition though. Not sure how well that would work, especially considering mechanics like Nano hives and Supply Depots.
We already have ammunition types, Mass Drivers for instance deliver explosive damage and Lasers deliver Thermal damage (i think). |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
208
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 01:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
We could use all the ship shield and armor plating options as well as a Damage Control Unit for dropsuits. This would really make tanking a suit according to your needs possible. |
|
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
210
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 16:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bumping this to keep it alive, many new threads all with similar ideas, read on and watch the videos I've linked about this topic you will see what I mean. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
376
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 18:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
During the CPM-AMA, this topic was covered. One of the biggest reasons preventing development of such modules is that there is currently no good way to let others know that you have activated your hardener. The glowing effects on vehicles isn't what the devs want either, and rendering issues at range would cause problems. We would all hate it if one second we are slaughtering someone and the next second we're dealing no damage and start wondering why we are dealing no damage. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
213
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 00:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
I agree with current views on the glow effect. However there are many resistance modules that produce no such effect such as Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes which do not cause the glow effect when armor tanking and have a very real value to any mercenary that is interested in setting their dropsuit to withstand more explosive damage.
In addition to this I would suggest that when using shield resistance modules that an effect similar to the effect the nanohives produce ( the nanite swarm not necessarily the glow effect ) a slight blurring of the character as if they had nanites swarming all over them the same colors as their suit normally is in the same pattern of colors would give a visual indication without lighting up the person from across the map. This could be a good visual indicator that the merc is using a shield hardener. If the nanite swarm effect was layered to show a secondary lower profile swarm that was slightly darker than the outer swarm this could indicate active armor hardener modules.
Another alternative is to only display the information on the TacNet, which in addition to being able to tell how much armor or shields a person has can also tell their suit type. With this information displayed a merc could see that a target was Shield Hardened and Armor Hardened just by aiming at the mercenary on their or the opposing team giving the person hardened the same visual profile as before but displaying their tactical information easily for anyone to see. |
rickyhong02
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 01:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Instead of having the red x that appears on your crosshairs with you score a hit, it could be white to show you're not effective.
Also an audio indicator would be nice. If you're shooting at someone with a hardener, you might hear bullets bouncing off or something.
But yeah, hardeners would be really cool. Adding new dimensions and all that. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
216
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 16:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm not sure an audio indicator would be appropriate for a hardener as it doesn't actually turn the bullet/round away causing a ricochet but rather reduces the amount of damage that affects the hp of the user's armor or shields. There are no hardeners that can make you impervious to damage but they do reduce damage taken. Resistance implies that you have a reduction of damage so rather than take 100% of the 254 damage a mass driver is causing on a direct hit you (with a 64% resistance to explosive damage) would take 91.44 damage from the direct hit.
I see no reason for a visual indicator for a hardener other than the normal TacNet display showing how effective you weapon is against a particular merc. We have the system in place already there is no reason to change it beyond people not understanding how the TacNet system works. This could be solved by a brief tutorial upon beginning life as a Dust Merc before ever deploying to the field in the battle academy. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
216
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 16:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:During the CPM-AMA, this topic was covered. One of the biggest reasons preventing development of such modules is that there is currently no good way to let others know that you have activated your hardener. The glowing effects on vehicles isn't what the devs want either, and rendering issues at range would cause problems. We would all hate it if one second we are slaughtering someone and the next second we're dealing no damage and start wondering why we are dealing no damage.
There is no such thing as no damage dealt in EVE. The plating and resistance modules all operate on a percentage basis and so it would not be no damage dealt but rather a reduced amount of damage. If you are getting cut up by flaylocks or mass drivers you could set your resistances to reduced damage vs explosives. If you are being one shot killed by forge guns or your shields wiped out by fluxes you could set your resistances to reduced damage ve EM damage types. If you need some resistance to the Laser rifles the other team is using then set your resistance to reduce damage from thermal damage types which would also reduce damage from hybrid weapons as well (AR and Snipers). Please read the rest of these posts and feel free to comment. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
216
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 20:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bump |
Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
196
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 21:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote: If we find that the other team is spamming Flux grenades we should be able to switch to a suit tanked to resist EM damage.
It's called Armour. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
217
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 22:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote: If we find that the other team is spamming Flux grenades we should be able to switch to a suit tanked to resist EM damage. It's called Armour. Indeed and in Eve a part of armor tanking is setting your resistances to the damage types you expect to be facing or to the types your ship is less resistant to. For an example of this a Caldari Logi may add to their suit an EM resistance module so that the Flux grenades only take a portion of their shields down to allow them to recharge their shields faster than they already do. This would be a EM Ward Field in Eve that would modify their shield resistance to compensate for the EM damage type. |
rickyhong02
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 00:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:I'm not sure an audio indicator would be appropriate for a hardener as it doesn't actually turn the bullet/round away causing a ricochet but rather reduces the amount of damage that affects the hp of the user's armor or shields. There are no hardeners that can make you impervious to damage but they do reduce damage taken. Resistance implies that you have a reduction of damage so rather than take 100% of the 254 damage a mass driver is causing on a direct hit you (with a 64% resistance to explosive damage) would take 91.44 damage from the direct hit.
I see no reason for a visual indicator for a hardener other than the normal TacNet display showing how effective you weapon is against a particular merc. We have the system in place already there is no reason to change it beyond people not understanding how the TacNet system works. This could be solved by a brief tutorial upon beginning life as a Dust Merc before ever deploying to the field in the battle academy.
Ah ok I see.
I still stubbornly believe an audio indicator would be useful, even if it was kinda subtle, like the difference between bullets impacting armor plates and impacting hardened armor plates. Doesn't have to be a ricochet, but maybe a harder "thump".
What irks me with the TacNet display is how its off there to the side. It's hard to consult in the heat of battle, especially when you engage multiple enemies who may or may not be using hardeners. That's why I wanted more information to be added to the infantry health bar and crosshair, which is usually where I focus my attention when I am aiming / landing shots. One thing I suggested was to have weapon effectiveness correlate to the color of an enemy health bar - lighter if effectiveness >100%, darker if effectiveness <100%. I think this idea would pair nicely with shield/armor hardeners. You won't know the exact value of effectiveness by looking at the health bar, but you can perceive a color change and note that they may have activated a hardener. |
|
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division DARKSTAR ARMY
84
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 01:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Currently i don't think another glow effect would be useful for frame rate, so instead how about making the respective hp bar(shield/armor) a different color like white to show hardening. Also the fact dust doesn't have 'armor has 15% res to EM', its more of 'lasers do 10% less damage to armor than shield.' That would make coding hardeners more difficult, along with how would we show multiple resistances% another less intuitive idea would be to simply put an icon next to their bar, like the resistance icons in monster hunter. Blue arrow for more resistance, red arrow for alightly less resistance than unhardened(like using a militia one) |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
220
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 17:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
I agree the glow effect isn't useful for frame rate and any number of other visual reasons. Color coding hardeners on the health bar would be a positive change but how do we separate friend from foe then? |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
223
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 02:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bumping for fresh ideas on this fantastic topic, because it's good to ask, anyone have any other thoughts on this either yes, no or any fresh ideas regarding resistance plating? |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
223
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 06:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yet another bump to keep this thread alive. |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division DARKSTAR ARMY
85
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 10:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:I agree the glow effect isn't useful for frame rate and any number of other visual reasons. Color coding hardeners on the health bar would be a positive change but how do we separate friend from foe then? The name and chevron wouldn't change, only the shield/armor hp bar |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
249
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 15:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:I agree the glow effect isn't useful for frame rate and any number of other visual reasons. Color coding hardeners on the health bar would be a positive change but how do we separate friend from foe then? The name and chevron wouldn't change, only the shield/armor hp bar I agree that would be helpful but currently there are a lot of health bars on the field. If this happens maybe the health bar only shows up for whomever puts their crosshairs on an individual. |
Sardonk Eternia
Multnomah Interstellar Holdings Inc.
137
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 07:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Some really great ideas in this thread regarding the way TacNet displays things. I like the suggestion of a small icon next to the HP bars on the HUD to indicate whether a target has resists. Maybe the "effectiveness" data could be moved directly to the health bars on the HUD since they are going to make it so that you only see the health bar of the guy you are currently aiming/shooting at in 1.4? If we are only having one health bar visible at a time it would surely be appropriate for it to display a bit more data about the target, maybe two numbers floating there, range and effectiveness? |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
311
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 14:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
With the changes to hit detection a lot of mercs seem to feel like their armor is made of cheese. The game is functioning exactly as was intended unfortunately without some way to adjust resistance of a suit's armor or shields I feel it unfair to have weapons that do more or less damage to either shields or armor and then claim that armor or shields have "more resistance to X" type of damage. Please CCP give us armor and shield hardeners even if they are passive hardeners that require skilling into with a new skill.
The skill Thermic Compensation is one that I have recently taken a look at in Eve which affect passive thermal resistance of resistance amplifiers that have a thermal resistance. This means that at level one with the skill my thermic resistance added to the suit would be a low 30% and when skilled to Lv5 would have a significantly better resistance.
This is now needed more than ever with hit detection "working" on a level that is finally acceptable. Wolfman I hope you are reading this. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
312
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:This might be a problem we're approaching in the wrong fashion. Direct nerfs/buffs to any weapon might just make the problem worse.
Every weapon needs a militia variant. This is a bigger problem than most people realize, as who the hell is going to dump 50k sp just to try out a new weapon when they're first starting? they're going to use weapons they can try for free, and due to inertia they'll likely stick with that weapon for quite some time.
It might also be a good idea to raise the AR's fitting costs. It might not seem like much but it would make Ar users have to use lower level mods making them weaker as a whole instead of the juggernauts they are. It seems odd to me that the weapon with the highest DPS also has some of the lowest fitting costs.
better all around performance should mean higher all around fitting costs. The fitting cost for a Duvolle is already absurdly high making it tough to fit on any proto suit other than the Assault variants. This is already in place. The problem is still a damage type issue. We have no built in resistance to any type of weapons and the ones that do more to a certain type of tank (shield or armor) cannot be tanked for other than with more buffer. Please check out this thread which provides an excellent way to protect yourself on the battlefield. Resistance Thread I don't think many know how to take advantage of the damage profiles in the game. I don't remotely see assault rifles as a problem generally. Generally, I am fighting Caldari assaults with ARs. So I play the natural counter to them which is a Gallente suit with a scrambler rifle. Not only are they doing less than optimal damage to me, but with proficiency and damage mods on my scrambler, I am doing nearly DOUBLE damage to them. I can take a STD scrambler and drop a proto Caldari with a Duvolle in an instant because of this. Literally 3-5 hits. I've gotten mail asking me "how did you vaporize 600 ehp instantly like that?" The answer is simple. The fit is a Caldari Killer. I like your thread, but what's to stop everyone from simply tanking out an Amarr suit, and say.... making shields resistant to hybrid and laser weapons, and making their armor resistant to projectile and explosives? If people hate the concept of dual tanking, that would only perpetuate the problem. As theoretically, that system can nearly eliminate almost all weaknesses. I do like the efficiency indicator concept from EVE as well though. At the same time we have similar systems already in game right now. Right now, you ARE able to tell what suit someone has on when you aim at them, and you CAN see how effective the weapon you're using is. What I would like is for damage mod percentage to be visibly added to the damage profile indicator when you aim at someone. So you can see, EXACTLY what your final damage tally is going to be when you shoot. It's good to bear in mind, that we will be getting additional weapons in 1.5. These will come with their own profiles as well. What I think would be good is a general hardener function for both shields and armor. Shields harden but don't recharge. Armor hardens, but slows you down.
Ultimately PG, Cpu and slot layouts prevent people from turning turtle. Right now though there is no turtling at all and not everyone has a "Caldari Killer" or Gallente Killer or Minmatar Killer suit available, although the Amarr killer has been perfected by cooking a militia locus grenade and giving it to the nearest heavy. What you would see is suits that while stronger to one type of damage would be weaker to others. This is a function of fitting a resistance module to the suit, taking an armor or shield slot just like what shield rechargers, shield energizers and shield regulators do already or armor repairers even. This is not an extra slot or a plate with +65Hp of thermal armor. It is a membrane that provides a layer of resistance to the type of damage it is designed to protect from.
This means lower HP but higher resistance allowing for faster resistance tanked heavys or a shield tanker caldari that only takes maybe half of the damage to shields he normally would from a flux grenade. Edit: I'm going to add a few Eve module descriptions in here to be a bit clearer.
Reactive Hardeners Em Ward Amplifier II Explosive Deflection Field II Armor Thermic Hardener II
This reflects using a slot that would normally be used for fitting a buffer module in favor of a damage type of resistance module.
Below is a link to a Vindicator fit for Eve online that is resistance tanked. Vindi Resistance Tank Fit
Buffer tank Vindi Buffer Fit Vindi
Admittedly the 2nd Vindi still uses some resistance plating but it also has a 1600mm rolled tungsten plate which adds EHP by adding a layer of buff.
Buffer Shield Tanked Myrmidon Buffed Myrm
|
Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
453
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 00:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP_Wolfman, It would be awesome if you could make something like this that would work on a Drop Suit and modify the resistance plating on vehicles to allow for damage type resists.
Thank-you
One Universe::One Market
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |