DUST Search - pubs vs PC a serious question

ZDub 303 wrote:

Seymor Krelborn wrote:

Badwolf Jones wrote:

From my point of view, running an organised squad of six in a public game often means we win easily if we're playing against a team full of single players doing their own thing. They become boring one sided matches where we end up red lining the other team after the first push.

This changes when the other side also has an organised squad, the sides are more balanced and it often goes down to either better squad or side with the most organised blueberries.

What changes in PC matches is that both sides are organised right from the start. You pick your squads and select players to full certain roles. For example, you may have one squad that contains Heavies as you want them to hold an interior objective.

In PC, you have a game plan that the whole team works to, but so does the other side. You set the game plan in motion and it goes down to skill and tactics. Having the ability to change the plan, adapt it is team wide and can really turn a close match. This isn't the case with Pub matches where it's often a case of just everyone attacking one point at a time and no-one defending the other points as the randoms are off in the hills pretending to be ace snipers.

thank you a very good break down... I haven't really done much PC so when I hear PC only dusties speak of lolpubs I wonder why...I have been in quite a few of these more organized pubs and they are anything but lol imo... however I have also been in my fair share of stomps so my initial thoughts were maybe these PC vets were involved in to many pub stomps and therefore simply had a misconception of pub matches which I believe can be challenging even to the best of players.

The people you fight in PC tend to be high skill and high SP. it's also no holds barred go for the win... No one cares about I'd in PC. It's waaaay harder than lol pubs.

But if they change matchmaking.... That might change.

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Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 292	Posted - 2013.07.19 03:31:00 - [1] - Quote aside from friendly fire being on in PC can someone please tell me why PC is so much tougher than pubs and the standard for determining what the best gear is? the way I see it in PC everyone on your team is working together = easier in a pub your own team screws you over half the time in a plethora of ways=harder in PC you know who you are up against and have had like a day to prepare for it= easier in a pub your thrown into a mix of god knows who on both sides fitted with god knows what employing who knows what kind of tactics (if any)=harder in PC you make a lot more money for your trouble(granted the corp spends quite a bit but im speaking from the player perspective) =easier in pubs 300 or 400k is a really good day= harder so whats all the lol pub nonsense? seriously?
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2862	Posted - 2013.07.19 03:36:00 - [2] - Quote how is going up against 16 organized players = easy?
Konohamaru Sarutobi Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 511	Posted - 2013.07.19 03:37:00 - [3] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: aside from friendly fire being on in PC can someone please tell me why PC is so much tougher than pubs and the standard for determining what the best gear is? the way I see it in PC everyone on your team is working together = easier in a pub your own team screws you over half the time in a plethora of ways=harder in PC you know who you are up against and have had like a day to prepare for it= easier in a pub your thrown into a mix of god knows who on both sides fitted with god knows what employing who knows what kind of tactics (if any)=harder in PC you make a lot more money for your trouble(granted the corp spends quite a bit but im speaking from the player perspective) =easier in pubs 300 or 400k is a really good day= harder so whats all the lol pub nonsense? seriously? I think, basically the problem is that in PC, you can't see districts owned by (I don't want to be a bad person with any corp so I won't point anyone), lets say, RND. In PC you fight against a full corp, and the corps in PC are most of them very good. In pub matches you play with a full of RND randoms, like, I don't know if you saw him sometime, Konohamaru Sarutobi. Lets say that in pubs you fight against 16 Konos and in PC... well, he doesn't play PC
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 834	Posted - 2013.07.19 03:40:00 - [4] - Quote Is this a troll post? You're forced to fight at a particular time, against a highly organised and dedicated opponent. The only way pubs are harder than PC, is if you're below the average skill level of Dust, in which case you might coast on the success of others in PC, but be outmatched against randoms.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 585	Posted - 2013.07.19 03:40:00 - [5] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: aside from friendly fire being on in PC can someone please tell me why PC is so much tougher than pubs and the standard for determining what the best gear is? the way I see it in PC everyone on your team is working together = easier in a pub your own team screws you over half the time in a plethora of ways=harder in PC you know who you are up against and have had like a day to prepare for it= easier in a pub your thrown into a mix of god knows who on both sides fitted with god knows what employing who knows what kind of tactics (if any)=harder in PC you make a lot more money for your trouble(granted the corp spends quite a bit but im speaking from the player perspective) =easier in pubs 300 or 400k is a really good day= harder so whats all the lol pub nonsense? seriously? Winning matters, you can't run away from points when the odds are against you to save k/d (you can but your corp will loose the district). Also good corps aren't going to use the same strat everytime, and on top of that also have the same amount of time to plan as you. Also in PC you only get ISK if you WIN! If you loose you get nothing.
Protocake JR Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 190	Posted - 2013.07.19 03:44:00 - [6] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: how is going up against 16 organized players = easy? Don't get me started on this guy, Seymor obviously doesn't know much about first person shooters. Just a classic eve player.
Badwolf Jones The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 50	Posted - 2013.07.19 03:54:00 - [7] - Quote From my point of view, running an organised squad of six in a public game often means we win easily if we're playing against a team full of single players doing their own thing. They become boring one sided matches where we end up red lining the other team after the first push. This changes when the other side also has an organised squad, the sides are more balanced and it often goes down to either better squad or side with the most organised blueberries. What changes in PC matches is that both sides are organised right from the start. You pick your squads and select players to full certain roles. For example, you may have one squad that contains Heavies as you want them to hold an interior objective. In PC, you have a game plan that the whole team works to, but so does the other side. You set the game plan in motion and it goes down to skill and tactics. Having the ability to change the plan, adapt it is team wide and can really turn a close match. This isn't the case with Pub matches where it's often a case of just everyone attacking one point at a time and no-one defending the other points as the randoms are off in the hills pretending to be ace snipers.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 293	Posted - 2013.07.19 04:01:00 - [8] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Is this a troll post? You're forced to fight at a particular time, against a highly organised and dedicated opponent. The only way pubs are harder than PC, is if you're below the average skill level of Dust, in which case you might coast on the success of others in PC, but be outmatched against randoms. this is honestly not a troll post... have you ever been in a pub match with multiple organized squads on both sides? granted they all may not be working together but each squad is and beyond that if you are a dust vet its pretty simple to know your role.... I get PC with 16 hardend vets on both sides coordinating with friendly fire makes for an even tougher challenge... but so much so that every pub match is just lol and every PC is the pinnacle of rough and tough challenge? I haven't done much PC at all so im trying to honestly understand....
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 293	Posted - 2013.07.19 04:08:00 - [9] - Quote Badwolf Jones wrote: From my point of view, running an organised squad of six in a public game often means we win easily if we're playing against a team full of single players doing their own thing. They become boring one sided matches where we end up red lining the other team after the first push. This changes when the other side also has an organised squad, the sides are more balanced and it often goes down to either better squad or side with the most organised blueberries. What changes in PC matches is that both sides are organised right from the start. You pick your squads and select players to full certain roles. For example, you may have one squad that contains Heavies as you want them to hold an interior objective. In PC, you have a game plan that the whole team works to, but so does the other side. You set the game plan in motion and it goes down to skill and tactics. Having the ability to change the plan, adapt it is team wide and can really turn a close match. This isn't the case with Pub matches where it's often a case of just everyone attacking one point at a time and no-one defending the other points as the randoms are off in the hills pretending to be ace snipers. thank you a very good break down... I haven't really done much PC so when I hear PC only dusties speak of lolpubs I wonder why...I have been in quite a few of these more organized pubs and they are anything but lol imo... however I have also been in my fair share of stomps so my initial thoughts were maybe these PC vets were involved in to many pub stomps and therefore simply had a misconception of pub matches which I believe can be challenging even to the best of players.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1037	Posted - 2013.07.19 04:15:00 - [10] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Badwolf Jones wrote: From my point of view, running an organised squad of six in a public game often means we win easily if we're playing against a team full of single players doing their own thing. They become boring one sided matches where we end up red lining the other team after the first push. This changes when the other side also has an organised squad, the sides are more balanced and it often goes down to either better squad or side with the most organised blueberries. What changes in PC matches is that both sides are organised right from the start. You pick your squads and select players to full certain roles. For example, you may have one squad that contains Heavies as you want them to hold an interior objective. In PC, you have a game plan that the whole team works to, but so does the other side. You set the game plan in motion and it goes down to skill and tactics. Having the ability to change the plan, adapt it is team wide and can really turn a close match. This isn't the case with Pub matches where it's often a case of just everyone attacking one point at a time and no-one defending the other points as the randoms are off in the hills pretending to be ace snipers. thank you a very good break down... I haven't really done much PC so when I hear PC only dusties speak of lolpubs I wonder why...I have been in quite a few of these more organized pubs and they are anything but lol imo... however I have also been in my fair share of stomps so my initial thoughts were maybe these PC vets were involved in to many pub stomps and therefore simply had a misconception of pub matches which I believe can be challenging even to the best of players. The people you fight in PC tend to be high skill and high SP. it's also no holds barred go for the win... No one cares about I'd in PC. It's waaaay harder than lol pubs. But if they change matchmaking.... That might change.

Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 293	Posted - 2013.07.19 04:16:00 - [11] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: how is going up against 16 organized players = easy? Don't get me started on this guy, Seymor obviously doesn't know much about first person shooters. Just a classic eve player. aren't you supposed to be playing COD?
Badwolf Jones The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2013.07.19 04:21:00 - [12] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: The people you fight in PC tend to be high skill and high SP. it's also no holds barred go for the win... No one cares about I'd in PC. It's waaaay harder than lol pubs. But if they change matchmaking.... That might change. Simply put, Players in Pub matches miss their targets 50%. PC players don't.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 294	Posted - 2013.07.19 04:21:00 - [13] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: Badwolf Jones wrote: From my point of view, running an organised squad of six in a public game often means we win easily if we're playing against a team full of single players doing their own thing. They become boring one sided matches where we end up red lining the other team after the first push. This changes when the other side also has an organised squad, the sides are more balanced and it often goes down to either better squad or side with the most organised blueberries. What changes in PC matches is that both sides are organised right from the start. You pick your squads and select players to full certain roles. For example, you may have one squad that contains Heavies as you want them to hold an interior objective. In PC, you have a game plan that the whole team works to, but so does the other side. You set the game plan in motion and it goes down to skill and tactics. Having the ability to change the plan, adapt it is team wide and can really turn a close match. This isn't the case with Pub matches where it's often a case of just everyone attacking one point at a time and no-one defending the other points as the randoms are off in the hills pretending to be ace snipers. thank you a very good break down... I haven't really done much PC so when I hear PC only dusties speak of lolpubs I wonder why...I have been in quite a few of these more organized pubs and they are anything but lol imo... however I have also been in my fair share of stomps so my initial thoughts were maybe these PC vets were involved in to many pub stomps and therefore simply had a misconception of pub matches which I believe can be challenging even to the best of players. The people you fight in PC tend to be high skill and high SP. it's also no holds barred go for the win... No one cares about I'd in PC. It's waaaay harder than lol pubs. But if they change matchmaking.... That might change. I sincerely hope they do change matchmaking.... for someone like me who hasn't had the chance to do much PC I would like to do more consistenly challenging pub matches. I don't like to pub stomp... its no fun.... I like a hard fought victory its a hell of a lot more rewarding and when I get into a pub match that provides me with that I always wish there was some way I could have a rematch with the same teams.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 699	Posted - 2013.07.19 04:22:00 - [14] - Quote PC matches are CB to some. and even more to those that have a stake in new eden. But if you don't give a **** about new eden. well than it's nothing to write home about. In chrome there was more close matches than PC, it feels like.
Dale Templar Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 275	Posted - 2013.07.19 05:22:00 - [15] - Quote PC Matches are ruthless, have you ever seen all 5 points be captured by the enemy team within 3 minutes of the match starting, and then pushed back to groundbase? PC matches are much more intense than Pub Matches, not only are they a true test of balance, they're a true test of skill and cooperation, they're nothing like pubs.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1717	Posted - 2013.07.19 06:34:00 - [16] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: aside from friendly fire being on in PC can someone please tell me why PC is so much tougher than pubs and the standard for determining what the best gear is? the way I see it in PC everyone on your team is working together = easier in a pub your own team screws you over half the time in a plethora of ways=harder in PC you know who you are up against and have had like a day to prepare for it= easier in a pub your thrown into a mix of god knows who on both sides fitted with god knows what employing who knows what kind of tactics (if any)=harder in PC you make a lot more money for your trouble(granted the corp spends quite a bit but im speaking from the player perspective) =easier in pubs 300 or 400k is a really good day= harder so whats all the lol pub nonsense? seriously? Actually that every 1 works together is just a basic requirement to face aswell well organised oponents. And idiots on your team who sit 24/7 with a sniper rifle in the redline or god forbid MCC farmers are not existant. And sure you know against who you are up to. But if you dont know about player specialisation then you cant do anything and just do wild guess what they use or not. And you dont use random stuff in PC, you use your best stuff avaible at that time and nothing less. The argument that PC pays out better is only half true cause if you loose a match you aint getting payd anything at all. Its allways get everything or die trying though when you win you get tons of salvage and 2mil+ ISK.
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1557	Posted - 2013.07.19 06:42:00 - [17] - Quote Think everyones covered most of the reasons. I would add that the will to win is far stronger and even if you did face a much weaker team they will still fight like pitbulls.
WyrmHero1945 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 469	Posted - 2013.07.19 06:44:00 - [18] - Quote How about you leave your NPC corp and start looking for joining the top corps? Only by doing that you'll get a taste of PC. Hint: The framerate in PC is terrible when 20 uplinks are deployed and 6~8 players competitive players are shooting at one another over an objective.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 142	Posted - 2013.07.19 06:51:00 - [19] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Protocake JR wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: how is going up against 16 organized players = easy? Don't get me started on this guy, Seymor obviously doesn't know much about first person shooters. Just a classic eve player. aren't you supposed to be playing COD? Is that supposed to be an insult? I liked World at War Never played online but the game was awesome.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 337	Posted - 2013.07.19 06:53:00 - [20] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Is this a troll post? You're forced to fight at a particular time, against a highly organised and dedicated opponent. The only way pubs are harder than PC, is if you're below the average skill level of Dust, in which case you might coast on the success of others in PC, but be outmatched against randoms. Because you have a team 16 all using comms, all in squads, all calling in orbitals, all in your corporation, all moving as a team to win. In pubs you have idiots hitting in to you with lavs kill stealing not squadding and just being a pain in the ass. I've noticed a difference in PC and Pubs and while the skill points and skill level of the enemy team is higher and harder to beat the organisation makes it bearable and funner.

kiro of justice Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.07.19 06:54:00 - [21] - Quote Both you and your opponent have to play DUST = Much Harder
dustwaffle Gravity Prone EoN. 198	Posted - 2013.07.19 07:21:00 - [22] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: the way I see it in PC everyone on your team is working together = easier So are the other team, doh. Seymor Krelborn wrote: in a pub your own team screws you over half the time in a plethora of ways=harder In PC if your 'team' screws you over, you know someone somewhere screwed up and let spais in. How do your teammates 'screw you over' in pubgames? Seymor Krelborn wrote: in PC you know who you are up against and have had like a day to prepare for it= easier Herding players to follow a strategy or tactic is like herding cats. Also, the other team may have a set tactic which your team/FC is entirely unprepared for and this may cost you the match. Seymor Krelborn wrote: in a pub your thrown into a mix of god knows who on both sides fitted with god knows what employing who knows what kind of tactics (if any)=harder Conversely you roll in a squad with people you know and play with often, and stomp on all the soloplayers and pubbies all day. Seymor Krelborn wrote: in PC you make a lot more money for your trouble(granted the corp spends quite a bit but im speaking from the player perspective) =easier in pubs 300 or 400k is a really good day= harder Unless you roll with advanced/standard suits and weapons and mods, you tend to lose quite a lot in PC. And, if you lose the match as well, you don't get paid. Get stomped hard by the other team? Died about 5 in that match? Lost the match? Say good bye to 750k.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1947	Posted - 2013.07.19 07:29:00 - [23] - Quote PC Matches are a lot more difficult than Pubs, everyones given you the main reasons, but no mention of vehicles. In Pub Matches, people want to keep their vehicles, in CBs most people don't care, we just carry on using them, and if we're bad we keep losing them. In a battle I played recently, I think collectively (All Vehicle players on both sides) must've lost about 30 Tanks, some of them were Enforcers, and there were like 4 tankers that game xD
KingBlade82 The Phoenix Federation 96	Posted - 2013.07.19 08:23:00 - [24] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: aside from friendly fire being on in PC can someone please tell me why PC is so much tougher than pubs and the standard for determining what the best gear is? the way I see it in PC everyone on your team is working together = easier in a pub your own team screws you over half the time in a plethora of ways=harder in PC you know who you are up against and have had like a day to prepare for it= easier in a pub your thrown into a mix of god knows who on both sides fitted with god knows what employing who knows what kind of tactics (if any)=harder in PC you make a lot more money for your trouble(granted the corp spends quite a bit but im speaking from the player perspective) =easier in pubs 300 or 400k is a really good day= harder so whats all the lol pub nonsense? seriously? everyone runs proto, abuses flaylocks, mass drivers and contact grenades if u don't like lavs running people over or any of the above mentioned its not gonna be fun or easy :P as the saying goes all is fair in love and war if it can be abused they will **** with u the whole match
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 300	Posted - 2013.07.19 16:29:00 - [25] - Quote Dale Templar wrote: PC Matches are ruthless, have you ever seen all 5 points be captured by the enemy team within 3 minutes of the match starting, and then pushed back to groundbase? PC matches are much more intense than Pub Matches, not only are they a true test of balance, they're a true test of skill and cooperation, they're nothing like pubs. lol I have actually seen this in pubs.....
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 300	Posted - 2013.07.19 16:31:00 - [26] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: how is going up against 16 organized players = easy? never said it was... but how is having 16 unorganized players on your own team easy either?
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 1356	Posted - 2013.07.19 16:33:00 - [27] - Quote Simple really, because in PC youll see the cheap stuff brought out and exploited in full force Thats what makes it a better metric to see just how broken something really is
Keyser Soze VerbalKint Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 511	Posted - 2013.07.19 16:37:00 - [28] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Simple really, because in PC youll see the cheap stuff brought out and exploited in full force Thats what makes it a better metric to see just how broken something really is Well yea because people are going to resort to whatever tools are available to secure a win, so if its out of balance its out of balance thats why you use PC data to figure out where the balance is filter that down to pubs not the other way around because you create imbalances going from the bottom up in terms of competitive play.
NAV HIV The Generals EoN. 297	Posted - 2013.07.19 16:38:00 - [29] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: how is going up against 16 organized players = easy? Most of those 16 players have SP over 10-12 mil. Specialized units with the best gear available...
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 303	Posted - 2013.07.19 16:39:00 - [30] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: How about you leave your NPC corp and start looking for joining the top corps? Only by doing that you'll get a taste of PC. Hint: The framerate in PC is terrible when 20 uplinks are deployed and 6~8 competitive players are shooting at one another over an objective. if your referring to me and by npc corp you mean New Player Corporation (cause that's who we cater to) I like it here we have a wonderful group of people, a good many of them quite skilled in the game, vets of PC who have left and come back because of the environment we foster. we have no ego we have no politics we believe in having fun, teaching and learning and if being here means I never get involved in a proper PC match im willing to accept that for the great rewards I receive everyday just being a part of dust university and the ivy league.

Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 1356	Posted - 2013.07.19 16:39:00 - [31] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Simple really, because in PC youll see the cheap stuff brought out and exploited in full force Thats what makes it a better metric to see just how broken something really is Well yea because people are going to resort to whatever tools are available to secure a win, so if its out of balance its out of balance thats why you use PC data to figure out where the balance is filter that down to pubs not the other way around because you create imbalances going from the bottom up in terms of competitive play. Indeed, happens in every game Hell I remember back when Tekken 4 was first released and you would see entire tournament brackets made up solely of Jin vs Jin matches
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 303	Posted - 2013.07.19 16:49:00 - [32] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: how is going up against 16 organized players = easy? Most of those 16 players have SP over 10-12 mil. Specialized units with the best gear available... a lot of pubs I go into I see quite a few teams where the majority are in the 10 - 12 mil sp range..... you may be aware of the infamous proto stomp epidemic that's all the QQ in the forums....


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