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Zero Harpuia
WarRavens League of Infamy
604
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 17:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
DISCLAIMER: I am a bloody Minmatar Logi, so I am not 'defending my win button.'
People are whining about the Forge day in and day out. I am here to try and set things right.
Why does the Forge do more damage to Vehicles? Because this simulates armor piercing. After 1000, you are OHKing dropsuits, so the extra damage is meant to be for vehicles ONLY. The reason why Large Railguns have less damage is the faster refire rate, the infinite ammo, and the much greater anti-infantry role a Large Railgun can play.
Why does the Forge fire so far? If you pay attention, it's a bloody railgun. The description says it fires at 7000 meters per second, so be glad they already don't do that for balance. They are a railgun and should have the range of a railgun so they can be used to counter railgun tanks sniping from WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over there.
Why does the Forge kill people in one hit? It can blow holes in tank armor. If it can do that to a hunk of powerful metallic bulkhead, imagine what it does to that squishy fellow that can't even durvive being nudged by a jeep.
Why does the Forge have such splash damage? I dunno, this seems a fair question. What with the giant hunk of metal hitting the ground however there is bound to be SOME shrapnel from the impact.
Why does the Forge do more damage to Armor? Railgun. It's a high velocity slug, lot of pure kinetic force. Won't stop Caldari tankers from bellyaching, but there it is.
Why are Forge Guns so easy to aim? They aren't fool, now let me tell you why. No zoom, not even ADS levels. The reticule shakes constantly. They take 3-6 seconds to charge, and the ones that take 2.4 to 3 seconds (skills dependent) fires at the moment it fills it's charge. Also, the charging, limited ammo and reloads cause the gun to have lengthy downtimes between shots, and a very limited lifespan if they do not coordinate with Nanohive owners.
DISCLAIMER: I am a bloody Minmatar Logi, so I am not 'defending my win button.' |
Icy TIG3R
Red Star. EoN.
562
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 17:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why it shouldn't do so much damage/splash?
Cause it's bad for game play. |
Xender17
Intrepidus XI EoN.
309
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 17:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
So you're saying the AR should do more damage than the Blaster Turret? |
DoomBrigand
Undead Doom Legion
2
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Posted - 2013.07.11 17:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
great post leave forg guns where they are and i am a heavy laser user |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens League of Infamy
604
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 17:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:So you're say the AR should do more damage than the Blaster Turret?
Explain the logic behind this please. |
FATPrincess - XOXO
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
196
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 17:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ok it's a railgun bit it's small compared to the tank railgun. It doesn't make sense that it does more damage. Ok it charges and? It's a gun not a cannon.
Splash radius is the best part of your post. Yes it shall be reduced since clearly the thing ain't no explosive. Like you said it's a chunk of metal going at hyper speeds, meant to kill tanks not infantry. Leave the explosions to missiles, MDs, Flaylocks and grenades.
-XOXO |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us ROFL BROS
317
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 17:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Xender17 wrote:So you're say the AR should do more damage than the Blaster Turret? Explain the logic behind this please.
forge gun is a mini railgun.... but with more daamge than the large turret version.
so blaster turret should do less damage than the HMG right?
probably a better analogy than that guys |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens League of Infamy
604
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 17:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Xender17 wrote:So you're say the AR should do more damage than the Blaster Turret? Explain the logic behind this please. forge gun is a mini railgun.... but with more daamge than the large turret version. so blaster turret should do less damage than the HMG right? probably a better analogy than that guys
I looked it up. AR actually does more damage than the Small Blasters. I fell out of my chair laughing at this. |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens League of Infamy
604
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 17:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
FATPrincess - XOXO wrote:Ok it's a railgun bit it's small compared to the tank railgun. It doesn't make sense that it does more damage. Ok it charges and? It's a gun not a cannon.
Splash radius is the best part of your post. Yes it shall be reduced since clearly the thing ain't no explosive. Like you said it's a chunk of metal going at hyper speeds, meant to kill tanks not infantry. Leave the explosions to missiles, MDs, Flaylocks and grenades.
-XOXO
It is a bit smaller if you look at it, but the Large Railgun isn't just the Railgun but also the ammo cache and the slug feeding systems while the Forge stores it's extra shells in you're Light Burden-esque ammo pouch(I really hope someone gets that reference.). Also, the Railgun blasts are far faster to charge, and the barrel for the Railgun ios much thinner, making the slug smaller, or at least less wide. Add that to the zero deviation of the Railgun, which means some kind of containment feature exists to keep the blast from soaring wide, and the counterweight that is the chassis of the HAV to keep the shake down, and it isn't hard to see that the Forge is basically a Large Railgun, but optimized for pure damage output at the cost of all else. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
248
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 18:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Xender17 wrote:So you're say the AR should do more damage than the Blaster Turret? Explain the logic behind this please. forge gun is a mini railgun.... but with more daamge than the large turret version. so blaster turret should do less damage than the HMG right? probably a better analogy than that guys I looked it up. AR actually does more damage than the Small Blasters. I fell out of my chair laughing at this. Yep.
Poor Small Turrets, They need some TLC. |
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FATPrincess - XOXO
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
196
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 18:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:FATPrincess - XOXO wrote:Ok it's a railgun bit it's small compared to the tank railgun. It doesn't make sense that it does more damage. Ok it charges and? It's a gun not a cannon.
Splash radius is the best part of your post. Yes it shall be reduced since clearly the thing ain't no explosive. Like you said it's a chunk of metal going at hyper speeds, meant to kill tanks not infantry. Leave the explosions to missiles, MDs, Flaylocks and grenades.
-XOXO It is a bit smaller if you look at it, but the Large Railgun isn't just the Railgun but also the ammo cache and the slug feeding systems while the Forge stores it's extra shells in you're Light Burden-esque ammo pouch(I really hope someone gets that reference.). Also, the Railgun blasts are far faster to charge, and the barrel for the Railgun ios much thinner, making the slug smaller, or at least less wide. Add that to the zero deviation of the Railgun, which means some kind of containment feature exists to keep the blast from soaring wide, and the counterweight that is the chassis of the HAV to keep the shake down, and it isn't hard to see that the Forge is basically a Large Railgun, but optimized for pure damage output at the cost of all else.
Ok I'll give you that.
-XOXO
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Xender17
Intrepidus XI EoN.
309
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 18:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am a bloody Minmatar Logi, so I am not 'defending my win button.'
People are whining about the Forge day in and day out. I am here to try and set things right.
Why does the Forge do more damage to Vehicles? Because this simulates armor piercing. After 1000, you are OHKing dropsuits, so the extra damage is meant to be for vehicles ONLY. The reason why Large Railguns have less damage is the faster refire rate, the infinite ammo, and the much greater anti-infantry role a Large Railgun can play.
Why does the Forge fire so far? If you pay attention, it's a bloody railgun. The description says it fires at 7000 meters per second, so be glad they already don't do that for balance. They are a railgun and should have the range of a railgun so they can be used to counter railgun tanks sniping from WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over there.
Why does the Forge kill people in one hit? It can blow holes in tank armor. If it can do that to a hunk of powerful metallic bulkhead, imagine what it does to that squishy fellow that can't even durvive being nudged by a jeep.
Why does the Forge have such splash damage? I dunno, this seems a fair question. What with the giant hunk of metal hitting the ground however there is bound to be SOME shrapnel from the impact.
Why does the Forge do more damage to Shield? Railgun. It's specifically stated in the description that it has a huge amount of heat (literally very very hot), and thermal hurts shields. Still no Laser AV, so Caldari tankers need to suck it up.
Why are Forge Guns so easy to aim? They aren't fool, now let me tell you why. No zoom, not even ADS levels. The reticule shakes constantly. They take 3-6 seconds to charge, and the ones that take 2.4 to 3 seconds (skills dependent) fires at the moment it fills it's charge. Also, the charging, limited ammo and reloads cause the gun to have lengthy downtimes between shots, and a very limited lifespan if they do not coordinate with Nanohive owners.
DISCLAIMER: I am a bloody Minmatar Logi, so I am not 'defending my win button.' I don't see any hole in my tank that's from piercing. Also Railguns are usually useless as an anti-infantry role.
If they are both railgun turrets than the turret should naturally shoot further. Because it's powered by an entire tank.
I believe railgun is hybrid and does equal damage.
Vs tanks they are very easy to aim. It's like a sniper aiming at a LAV.
Also something no one can explain is that forgeguns are more powerful than a railgun that's being powered by an entire tank. So what? Are AR's suppose to be more powerful than blaster?
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martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
269
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 18:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
It take about 3-4 shoot to kill a medium suit when doing just splash damage. 1 direct hit to OHK infantry, normal. Forge got 4 ammo clip, 16 total. Without some nano nearby or a supply depot, the forge gunner don't do much by himself, killing about 8-10 people before running dry of ammo.
I don't understand what is wrong with the forge anyway. It just feel like the flavor of the week for QQ on the forum.
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Xender17
Intrepidus XI EoN.
309
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 18:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Xender17 wrote:So you're say the AR should do more damage than the Blaster Turret? Explain the logic behind this please. forge gun is a mini railgun.... but with more daamge than the large turret version. so blaster turret should do less damage than the HMG right? probably a better analogy than that guys Well said. Minus the insult. |
martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
269
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 18:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Xender17 wrote:So you're say the AR should do more damage than the Blaster Turret? Explain the logic behind this please. forge gun is a mini railgun.... but with more daamge than the large turret version. so blaster turret should do less damage than the HMG right? probably a better analogy than that guys Well said. Minus the insult.
What would be your proposals for the Forge gun specs then? proportionnal damage of a tank railgun? Would be what 400 HP per shot? Who would use that? |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us ROFL BROS
317
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 18:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
martinofski wrote:Xender17 wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Xender17 wrote:So you're say the AR should do more damage than the Blaster Turret? Explain the logic behind this please. forge gun is a mini railgun.... but with more daamge than the large turret version. so blaster turret should do less damage than the HMG right? probably a better analogy than that guys Well said. Minus the insult. What would be your proposals for the Forge gun specs then? proportionnal damage of a tank railgun? Would be what 400 HP per shot? Who would use that?
breach = same stats as compressed normal = same stats as reg railgun assault = just below normal
aka, its a railgun.
the small railgun turret doesnt even do 400 damage, i wasnt calling to nerf them into oblivion, just in line with their counterpart.
nobody is complaining that tank rails are UP or OP, so that seems to be a nice place to put the numbers dont you think? |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
698
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 18:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Why does the Forge do more damage to Shield?
They don't.
http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/64862/1/damageprofiles.jpg
In-game also confirms this. |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens League of Infamy
604
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 18:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Eh, fine, I'll edit that one. |
DS 10
G I A N T EoN.
581
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 18:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
The problem people have with the FG isn't so much the FG vs Railgun debate. The problem they have is the effectiveness vs infantry, i.e. splash damage. The splash on FGs is what kills infantry a majority of the time. My decked out IA takes out most players in 2 shots or less. The thing is my shots are generally accurate. Very rarely do I get a kill and wonder how the shot killed them when it hit further than a few feet away. If FGs are dropped to 3 shots to kill assaults, it will make the FG useless vs infantry, leaving Heavies without a viable medium/long range option. It already has 16 rounds starting off, 20 with Ammo Capacity maxed. Saying you could only get 6 kills if you don't miss without running out of ammo would be ridiculous. The only thing I could see them possibly changing is the splash radius. I don't think anything is wrong with the weapon, but kids are going to cry until everything but the AR is useless.
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Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
455
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 19:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
As a dropship pilot, I'd be happy if they just cut the accuracy on it by a large chunk. Honestly, it's basically a tank cannon that you hold in your hands. How are you supposed to aim that thing right at your target when it fires? Plus, this woudln't really penalize it in close range encounters, or at medium range against large targets like HAVs. |
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