DUST Search - the redline problem

Buster Friently wrote:

Chances Ghost wrote:

we all know the redline problem and its many faces and many reasons but so far the solutions havnt really been very viable.

so i present my viable solution to the redline problem

bigger map

extend the maps further out (the terrain is already there so very litle mapworks needs done, just a few road extensions and maybe some base additions)

if you do this the ground/MCC spawns are so far back that sniping from the redline (infantry and tank) become useless and farming them in the redline becomes a liability ( they just get past you and hack all the objectives)

this makes redlines places you dont want to be and cant stay in and brings all the fighting into places where both teams can fight

suddenly those rail tanks have to come out of the redline and are vulnerable to anti tank, and suddenly those snipers arnt so safe.

not only that but it increases the dependance on vehicles (even dropships as fast transport across the huge gaps and as start of game rush mobiles)

not only this but it wont be any more taxing on the PS3 then the maps currently are because they are loading all that terrain anyways and we just arnt able to use it.

most maps are already suited to a pushed back redline.

There is no problem. Countersnipe.

Or do you expect to win in every situation with your AR?

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Chances Ghost Inf4m0us ROFL BROS 233	Posted - 2013.07.07 16:42:00 - [1] - Quote we all know the redline problem and its many faces and many reasons but so far the solutions havnt really been very viable. so i present my viable solution to the redline problem bigger map extend the maps further out (the terrain is already there so very litle mapworks needs done, just a few road extensions and maybe some base additions) if you do this the ground/MCC spawns are so far back that sniping from the redline (infantry and tank) become useless and farming them in the redline becomes a liability ( they just get past you and hack all the objectives) this makes redlines places you dont want to be and cant stay in and brings all the fighting into places where both teams can fight suddenly those rail tanks have to come out of the redline and are vulnerable to anti tank, and suddenly those snipers arnt so safe. not only that but it increases the dependance on vehicles (even dropships as fast transport across the huge gaps and as start of game rush mobiles) not only this but it wont be any more taxing on the PS3 then the maps currently are because they are loading all that terrain anyways and we just arnt able to use it. most maps are already suited to a pushed back redline.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 967	Posted - 2013.07.07 16:43:00 - [2] - Quote Hmm, never seen a redline problem/solution thread before... ;)
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2213	Posted - 2013.07.07 16:43:00 - [3] - Quote Chances Ghost wrote: we all know the redline problem and its many faces and many reasons but so far the solutions havnt really been very viable. so i present my viable solution to the redline problem bigger map extend the maps further out (the terrain is already there so very litle mapworks needs done, just a few road extensions and maybe some base additions) if you do this the ground/MCC spawns are so far back that sniping from the redline (infantry and tank) become useless and farming them in the redline becomes a liability ( they just get past you and hack all the objectives) this makes redlines places you dont want to be and cant stay in and brings all the fighting into places where both teams can fight suddenly those rail tanks have to come out of the redline and are vulnerable to anti tank, and suddenly those snipers arnt so safe. not only that but it increases the dependance on vehicles (even dropships as fast transport across the huge gaps and as start of game rush mobiles) not only this but it wont be any more taxing on the PS3 then the maps currently are because they are loading all that terrain anyways and we just arnt able to use it. most maps are already suited to a pushed back redline. We're eventually going to have the entire 5x5km space to play around in.
Chances Ghost Inf4m0us ROFL BROS 233	Posted - 2013.07.07 16:44:00 - [4] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Hmm, never seen a redline problem/solution thread before... ;) the sarcasim is strong with this one how many have proposed just pushing the redlines back and making all the currently operatable terrain open to both teams ?
Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 344	Posted - 2013.07.07 16:50:00 - [5] - Quote Why do we need to stop red line tank/infantry sniping? Thats their tactic, leave em alone. you can scare tanks off easily, and snipers can be counter sniped. All part of the game
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 967	Posted - 2013.07.07 16:51:00 - [6] - Quote Chances Ghost wrote: how many have proposed just pushing the redlines back and making all the currently operatable terrain open to both teams ? Going by memory so forgive if I miss some aspect of the argument... but the counter is that then when a team is getting stomped they will have no place to even spawn. You know, tanks under the MCC, snipers at the ready so the spawner has no cover at all, that type of thing.
Chances Ghost Inf4m0us ROFL BROS 233	Posted - 2013.07.07 17:07:00 - [7] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Why do we need to stop red line tank/infantry sniping? Thats their tactic, leave em alone. you can scare tanks off easily, and snipers can be counter sniped. All part of the game alot of the time it either grants invulnerability or complete farming a rail tank can only be countered by a rail tank (who has to leave their redline) or an orbital (wich wont kill most) and a sniper can only be countered by a sniper its no good, its tactically void and its just plain boring
KingBlade82 The Phoenix Federation 64	Posted - 2013.07.07 17:55:00 - [8] - Quote being redlined can be prevented if ur team puts down drop uplinks and if ur team pushes but I understand sometimes the enemy team uses full proto and may completely rip u apart in which case they win if the team pushes u back that far easy I doubt even the largest map will help u out tbh
Chances Ghost Inf4m0us ROFL BROS 233	Posted - 2013.07.07 18:17:00 - [9] - Quote KingBlade82 wrote: being redlined can be prevented if ur team puts down drop uplinks and if ur team pushes but I understand sometimes the enemy team uses full proto and may completely rip u apart in which case they win if the team pushes u back that far easy I doubt even the largest map will help u out tbh it will prevent sniper spam it will prevent redline spawnkilling it will give me better racetracks to race my LAVS on :P it fixes alot of issues mapwise and if the team pushes that hard up to the new redline they leave the rest of the map sparcely populated for a comeback
Buster Friently Rosen Association 897	Posted - 2013.07.07 18:20:00 - [10] - Quote Chances Ghost wrote: we all know the redline problem and its many faces and many reasons but so far the solutions havnt really been very viable. so i present my viable solution to the redline problem bigger map extend the maps further out (the terrain is already there so very litle mapworks needs done, just a few road extensions and maybe some base additions) if you do this the ground/MCC spawns are so far back that sniping from the redline (infantry and tank) become useless and farming them in the redline becomes a liability ( they just get past you and hack all the objectives) this makes redlines places you dont want to be and cant stay in and brings all the fighting into places where both teams can fight suddenly those rail tanks have to come out of the redline and are vulnerable to anti tank, and suddenly those snipers arnt so safe. not only that but it increases the dependance on vehicles (even dropships as fast transport across the huge gaps and as start of game rush mobiles) not only this but it wont be any more taxing on the PS3 then the maps currently are because they are loading all that terrain anyways and we just arnt able to use it. most maps are already suited to a pushed back redline. There is no problem. Countersnipe. Or do you expect to win in every situation with your AR?

Chances Ghost Inf4m0us ROFL BROS 233	Posted - 2013.07.07 18:36:00 - [11] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Chances Ghost wrote: we all know the redline problem and its many faces and many reasons but so far the solutions havnt really been very viable. so i present my viable solution to the redline problem bigger map extend the maps further out (the terrain is already there so very litle mapworks needs done, just a few road extensions and maybe some base additions) if you do this the ground/MCC spawns are so far back that sniping from the redline (infantry and tank) become useless and farming them in the redline becomes a liability ( they just get past you and hack all the objectives) this makes redlines places you dont want to be and cant stay in and brings all the fighting into places where both teams can fight suddenly those rail tanks have to come out of the redline and are vulnerable to anti tank, and suddenly those snipers arnt so safe. not only that but it increases the dependance on vehicles (even dropships as fast transport across the huge gaps and as start of game rush mobiles) not only this but it wont be any more taxing on the PS3 then the maps currently are because they are loading all that terrain anyways and we just arnt able to use it. most maps are already suited to a pushed back redline. There is no problem. Countersnipe. Or do you expect to win in every situation with your AR? i dont use an AR but nice try when the ONLY counter is to snipe (either rail or infantry) theres a problem not everyone is going to spec sniper to counter
loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2013.07.07 18:41:00 - [12] - Quote The problem is not for the AR users or infantry really, the problem is for those that put millions on the line to help you win to only get sniped by a tank so far in his zone that even AV can't reach him. Blow vehicules up when more than x seconds in the red line, there you have it. It would be nice to add a message too : Your shiit will blow up in 30 seconds because you are a wuss.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization 19	Posted - 2013.07.07 18:43:00 - [13] - Quote cant reach by derpships since they r in redzone but if we can kick there ass out f redzone we can asll have some revenge... i propose a 3min redzone count down time so we can charge in there kill them snipers the leave as fast a possible...
Nguruthos IX Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 699	Posted - 2013.07.07 18:44:00 - [14] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Chances Ghost wrote: we all know the redline problem and its many faces and many reasons but so far the solutions havnt really been very viable. so i present my viable solution to the redline problem bigger map extend the maps further out (the terrain is already there so very litle mapworks needs done, just a few road extensions and maybe some base additions) if you do this the ground/MCC spawns are so far back that sniping from the redline (infantry and tank) become useless and farming them in the redline becomes a liability ( they just get past you and hack all the objectives) this makes redlines places you dont want to be and cant stay in and brings all the fighting into places where both teams can fight suddenly those rail tanks have to come out of the redline and are vulnerable to anti tank, and suddenly those snipers arnt so safe. not only that but it increases the dependance on vehicles (even dropships as fast transport across the huge gaps and as start of game rush mobiles) not only this but it wont be any more taxing on the PS3 then the maps currently are because they are loading all that terrain anyways and we just arnt able to use it. most maps are already suited to a pushed back redline. We're eventually going to have the entire 5x5km space to play around in. That's like saying we'll eventually have amarr jets and cloaking modules for dropships. Don't count on it within your lifetime
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 235	Posted - 2013.07.07 18:50:00 - [15] - Quote Here is how we solve the problem. 1) WP=SP and we keep the 1000 SP per match cap after bonus SP is capped this will stop AFKing 2) Bullets/Missiles/swarms/railguns cannot leave red line so you have to be inside the field of battle to get a kill or destroy something These 2 things will reduce redline matches because people will be forced to enter the field of battle and compete to get SP. Once we get security levels similar to EVE then redline matches will be reduced even more because people will be using similar equipment levels.
Chances Ghost Inf4m0us ROFL BROS 234	Posted - 2013.07.07 19:01:00 - [16] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Here is how we solve the problem. 1) WP=SP and we keep the 1000 SP per match cap after bonus SP is capped this will stop AFKing 2) Bullets/Missiles/swarms/railguns cannot leave red line so you have to be inside the field of battle to get a kill or destroy something These 2 things will reduce redline matches because people will be forced to enter the field of battle and compete to get SP. Once we get security levels similar to EVE then redline matches will be reduced even more because people will be using similar equipment levels. your solution isnt really all that workable programming wise the redline isnt programmed like that and to do so would require a major overhaul. and so delying anything else int he game capwise/game mod wise by a long long time my method acomplises the same thing and only requires the movement of the redline and spawns. a weeks programming at best. plus my method eliminates the redline problem rather than just reduce it slightly and cause more problems in the process :P weve heard all those other redline theorys, no damage in/out of the redline is as old as the game itself. critique on this method would be preferable to you quoting whats been proposed and rejected in the past
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 968	Posted - 2013.07.07 19:22:00 - [17] - Quote Yep, same old thread, just like I thought.
Nate4442 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.07.09 01:01:00 - [18] - Quote Breaking the player base into good and crap players would kill the game, oh wait..... Crash monster why you post?
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1782	Posted - 2013.07.09 01:06:00 - [19] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Chances Ghost wrote: we all know the redline problem and its many faces and many reasons but so far the solutions havnt really been very viable. so i present my viable solution to the redline problem bigger map extend the maps further out (the terrain is already there so very litle mapworks needs done, just a few road extensions and maybe some base additions) if you do this the ground/MCC spawns are so far back that sniping from the redline (infantry and tank) become useless and farming them in the redline becomes a liability ( they just get past you and hack all the objectives) this makes redlines places you dont want to be and cant stay in and brings all the fighting into places where both teams can fight suddenly those rail tanks have to come out of the redline and are vulnerable to anti tank, and suddenly those snipers arnt so safe. not only that but it increases the dependance on vehicles (even dropships as fast transport across the huge gaps and as start of game rush mobiles) not only this but it wont be any more taxing on the PS3 then the maps currently are because they are loading all that terrain anyways and we just arnt able to use it. most maps are already suited to a pushed back redline. We're eventually going to have the entire 5x5km space to play around in. I can't wait to play 16v16 on maps so big, it sounds like so much fun
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 300	Posted - 2013.07.09 01:44:00 - [20] - Quote see, this is funny because for me, the redline is a solution to having ridiculously overpriced tanks that get two-shotted by any proto AV. so no, keep the redline as is.

SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 255	Posted - 2013.07.09 01:45:00 - [21] - Quote "bigger map" hahahahahahahah stopped reading right there what an idiot.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 123	Posted - 2013.07.09 02:39:00 - [22] - Quote I've said much the same thing elsewhere on this forum. Increasing the map size would solve a lot of the "redline problems" that people currently complain about. But I've also come realize that it will cause a whole lot more. The biggest issue that I see currently is the player count in matches. 16x16 just isn't enough to fill a larger map; it's barely enough for the map sizes we have currently. Any bigger and you could spend the entire match just running around trying to find some one to shoot. Another problem is vehicles. If you increase the player count per match, you have to increase the number of vehicles allowed on the map at any given time in order to compensate, so that teams can use vehicles to reach the combat zones without having to run for five minutes first. Then there are the Objectives themselves. If you increase the map size you must also increase the number of Objectives, and therefor, the installations that occupy the map. Imagine a 5K map with only 5 Objectives on it. What's the point? Since Objectives (at least in Skirmish) determine how fast you MCC blows up, increasing their number also increases the amount of damage they take at any given time during the match, meaning that you have to increase the EHP of the MCC's, decrease the damage of the Null Cannons, or just accept that you're going to have shorter matches overall. Increasing the map size seems like a quick and easy fix at first until you start looking at all the things that will have to be added, and tweaked, in order to make this a viable option.


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