DUST Search - LOS - making precision and profile matter

Matticus Monk wrote:

Krom Ganesh wrote:

How about also changing the radar so that inside the smallest circle is your passive scan range (also make it a bigger circle), add a medium circle that covers max passive range to 100m, and the rest of the radar is 101m to some max range?

As for size of each circle, say the passive circle has a radius of x, medium circle has a radius of y, and the entire radar has a radius of z.

x > (y-x) > (z-(y+x))

I think I am understanding where you are going but 100m range I think is a bit much for scout passive scan range. My suggestion is that, for scouts ONLY:

Change scout base passive scan range to 15m (from 10).

Add an additional passive scan range from 15-25m, but you scan at lower precision, say passive precision +5db.

So, for example an unmodified scout/light frame suit would pick up objects noisier than 45db within 15m. And a scout suit *only* would additionally taper it's scan range off so that between 15-25m, objects noiser than 50db would be detected (base assaults/heavies).

The base passive scan precision and range are adjusted for modules, and passive skills.

Other suits stay at 10m scan range, and no larger tapered off scan radius. Hey, you want situational awareness? Got to pay to play, and us scouts.... boy do we pay.

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Django Quik R.I.f.t 797	Posted - 2013.07.04 18:48:00 - [1] - Quote So our dropsuits all have a scan profile and scan precision/radius to them, however these only have any effect if the person you're trying to spot/hide from isn't in view. As soon as anyone gets line of sight on anyone else, that red dot appears on the HUD for all to see. How about if it was changed, so that the scan profile and scanning precision actually affected LOS as well? Not as in make people invisible but make it so that your suit can't identify them (i.e. no red chevron). This is how it could work (warning - rough numbers for example purposes): For every point of scanning precision you have, you get 10m in LOS scan radius. Beyond that you can see players but not tell what side they're on (no chevrons, no dots); For every point of scan profile you are below another player's scan precision, you can go 10m into their LOS scan radius without being identified; For every point of scan precision you have above another player's scan profile, you can identify them an extra 10m outside of your LOS scan radius; This would be added to (or multiplied?) by using scoped weapons and ADS and not necessarily apply to vehicles (don't know enough about vehicle scan stuff really...) I hope that makes sense because there's a lot of scan terms in there and I'm still getting my own head around it a little. But basically, it would mean that a super stealthy scout would be able to get right up to before you could even tell it's an enemy. Or a super-awesome spotter could see a sneaky hacker running from halfway across the map. Honestly my main concern with the game at the moment is that even though you can make yourself super-low profile, as soon as anyone has you in the corner of their screen, even if they've not actually seen you, you are spotted and broadcast t0 the entire squad/team. LOS currently makes profile and precision irrelevant, so let's change that and make them actually useful.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 798	Posted - 2013.07.04 20:04:00 - [2] - Quote Really? Nothing? Not even a 'terrible idea, Django, go home'?
Riprising the logistic D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass 0	Posted - 2013.07.04 20:07:00 - [3] - Quote I never saw that movie....
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 145	Posted - 2013.07.04 20:08:00 - [4] - Quote I like this idea alot, actually. Infact, I want to SWEAR that this was how it was in Chromosome.... there were so many times I would look directly at someone, often down the sight/scope of my gun and get nothing - no chevron, no health bar.... just a red dot if I was actually on target. I like this idea and fully endorse it. And not just because my profile/scanning range/precision is all skilled up to 3 and doesn't seem to be really doing much.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 799	Posted - 2013.07.05 09:20:00 - [5] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: I like this idea alot, actually. Infact, I want to SWEAR that this was how it was in Chromosome.... there were so many times I would look directly at someone, often down the sight/scope of my gun and get nothing - no chevron, no health bar.... just a red dot if I was actually on target. I like this idea and fully endorse it. And not just because my profile/scanning range/precision is all skilled up to 3 and doesn't seem to be really doing much. I don't think it's actually changed in Uprising but there really does need to be some use to all those skills beyond the mini-map/radar thing.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 71	Posted - 2013.07.05 10:10:00 - [6] - Quote I really like this. It makes stealth more viable. How about changing the radar so that inside the smallest circle is your passive scan range (also make it a bigger circle), add a medium circle that covers passive range to 100m, and the rest of the radar is 101m to some max range? As for size of each circle, say the passive circle has a radius of x, medium circle has a radius of y, and the entire radar has a radius of z. x > (y-x) > (z-(y+x)) this way the passive circle provides a more detailed view of it's area than the medium and max range circle do. This would allow for players to get an expanded view of their immediate surroundings (and a sense of distance if they know their passive range) while also allowing them to see information from their LOS (except at distant ranges) and allies on their radar. This would in turn make the radar more useful for presenting the information gained from your LOS modification. I hope this makes sense as I'm having a terrible time of putting the circle size idea into words.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 95	Posted - 2013.07.05 10:14:00 - [7] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Really? Nothing? Not even a 'terrible idea, Django, go home'? I haven't thought about the exact numbers you've used to see if they are reasonable but the general principle is good.
Natu Nobilis BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 405	Posted - 2013.07.05 10:52:00 - [8] - Quote Snipers 514 A war won without battles, because no one can see each other nor move from their spot.
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 41	Posted - 2013.07.05 11:07:00 - [9] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: I like this idea alot, actually. Infact, I want to SWEAR that this was how it was in Chromosome.... there were so many times I would look directly at someone, often down the sight/scope of my gun and get nothing - no chevron, no health bar.... just a red dot if I was actually on target. )] The profile system as it is doesn't seem to make much sense. So, I can train up to reduce my signature from people no more than 10m away, but at long range it offers no advantage whatsoever... ? Totally logical /sarcasm I agree with Matticus's comment. It may have been a bug, but some of the better scout users would at time only be found by looking for 'shape' and then the red dot would appear. This would be great. One of the big problems at present is that we have absolutely no idea (apart from guesswork) how the system really works.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 160	Posted - 2013.07.05 11:29:00 - [10] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: How about also changing the radar so that inside the smallest circle is your passive scan range (also make it a bigger circle), add a medium circle that covers max passive range to 100m, and the rest of the radar is 101m to some max range? As for size of each circle, say the passive circle has a radius of x, medium circle has a radius of y, and the entire radar has a radius of z. x > (y-x) > (z-(y+x)) I think I am understanding where you are going but 100m range I think is a bit much for scout passive scan range. My suggestion is that, for scouts ONLY: Change scout base passive scan range to 15m (from 10). Add an additional passive scan range from 15-25m, but you scan at lower precision, say passive precision +5db. So, for example an unmodified scout/light frame suit would pick up objects noisier than 45db within 15m. And a scout suit only would additionally taper it's scan range off so that between 15-25m, objects noiser than 50db would be detected (base assaults/heavies). The base passive scan precision and range are adjusted for modules, and passive skills. Other suits stay at 10m scan range, and no larger tapered off scan radius. Hey, you want situational awareness? Got to pay to play, and us scouts.... boy do we pay.

Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 160	Posted - 2013.07.05 11:33:00 - [11] - Quote Karazantor wrote: It may have been a bug, but some of the better scout users would at time only be found by looking for 'shape' and then the red dot would appear. This would be great. Glad I am not the only one remembering this. I always strived (strove?) to be that scout during Chromosome.... that guy you could look right at and wonder if he was friend or foe....
Django Quik R.I.f.t 806	Posted - 2013.07.05 11:53:00 - [12] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: Krom Ganesh wrote: How about also changing the radar so that inside the smallest circle is your passive scan range (also make it a bigger circle), add a medium circle that covers max passive range to 100m, and the rest of the radar is 101m to some max range? As for size of each circle, say the passive circle has a radius of x, medium circle has a radius of y, and the entire radar has a radius of z. x > (y-x) > (z-(y+x)) I think I am understanding where you are going but 100m range I think is a bit much for scout passive scan range. My suggestion is that, for scouts ONLY: Change scout base passive scan range to 15m (from 10). Add an additional passive scan range from 15-25m, but you scan at lower precision, say passive precision +5db. So, for example an unmodified scout/light frame suit would pick up objects noisier than 45db within 15m. And a scout suit only would additionally taper it's scan range off so that between 15-25m, objects noiser than 50db would be detected (base assaults/heavies). The base passive scan precision and range are adjusted for modules, and passive skills. Other suits stay at 10m scan range, and no larger tapered off scan radius. Hey, you want situational awareness? Got to pay to play, and us scouts.... boy do we pay. I like the idea of tapered scan radius/precision but I think it's something that should be applied to all suits, just that scouts get a bonus to their tapering radius. A medium/heavy suit could get a taper radius of say 100% while light suits get a taper of 300% maybe? This way passive scanning and LOS could work somewhat like the damage falloff of weapon ranges.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 806	Posted - 2013.07.05 11:58:00 - [13] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: Snipers 514 A war won without battles, because no one can see each other nor move from their spot. Did you miss the part where I said you can still see them, they just don't get a red chevron on them? Snipers would be helpful for spotting people far away but their very small field of vision would be a great hindrance from stopping them spotting everyone on the map. There will always be snipers but the aim of the game will always be to get the objectives and there will always be people trying to do this. At the end of the day sniping is a sport that only a minority actually enjoy and will never take over the entire game.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 162	Posted - 2013.07.05 11:58:00 - [14] - Quote Django Quik wrote: I like the idea of tapered scan radius/precision but I think it's something that should be applied to all suits, just that scouts get a bonus to their tapering radius. A medium/heavy suit could get a taper radius of say 100% while light suits get a taper of 300% maybe? This way passive scanning and LOS could work somewhat like the damage falloff of weapon ranges. I could definitely go for that.... a 100% bonus to a medium suit means that they have a 0-10m base passive scan, and then 10-20m passive scan at +5db. Since Assaults and Heavies have such high scan precision, this seems like really it's only useful for the logi. Then scouts go from 0-15 (I'd really like their base range to get increased), and then 15-45 at base scan precision +5db? Man, that would be awesome..... and then modified by modules/passive skills? It may be asking a bit much still, given the role I think CCP wants the active scanner to play. But, I could definitely go for it.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 144	Posted - 2013.07.05 12:01:00 - [15] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Really? Nothing? Not even a 'terrible idea, Django, go home'? I used to fight to make precision, profile, and scan radius matter. But no matter how many solutions I posted I never got feedback from any devs and nothing seemed to be pointing in the direction that they're going to address it. I do like your idea though.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 806	Posted - 2013.07.05 12:09:00 - [16] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Django Quik wrote: Really? Nothing? Not even a 'terrible idea, Django, go home'? I used to fight to make precision, profile, and scan radius matter. But no matter how many solutions I posted I never got feedback from any devs and nothing seemed to be pointing in the direction that they're going to address it. I do like your idea though. Well, they've finally acknowledged the plight of scouts in the weekly feedback section, so hopefully this will be something that they consider when they do make adjustments. We'll keep on pushing anyway. Thanks for the support guys.
Shrapnels The Order 1886 154	Posted - 2013.07.05 12:13:00 - [17] - Quote this was another part of CCPs Secret Nerf/Buff
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 73	Posted - 2013.07.05 19:08:00 - [18] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: I think I am understanding where you are going but 100m range I think is a bit much for scout passive scan range. My suggestion is that, for scouts ONLY: Change scout base passive scan range to 15m (from 10). Add an additional passive scan range from 15-25m, but you scan at lower precision, say passive precision +5db. So, for example an unmodified scout/light frame suit would pick up objects noisier than 45db within 15m. And a scout suit only would additionally taper it's scan range off so that between 15-25m, objects noiser than 50db would be detected (base assaults/heavies). The base passive scan precision and range are adjusted for modules, and passive skills. Other suits stay at 10m scan range, and no larger tapered off scan radius. Hey, you want situational awareness? Got to pay to play, and us scouts.... boy do we pay. I didn't mean for 100m to be the passive scan range. It's just a second region on the radar to display information. This information would only come from allies, your LOS, or your scanner but not your passive scanning since the second region covers from the edge of your passive scan to 100m. I chose 100m since that covers all of the medium range rifles. Though I do like the tapered scanning range.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4429	Posted - 2013.07.05 19:11:00 - [19] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Django Quik wrote: Really? Nothing? Not even a 'terrible idea, Django, go home'? I used to fight to make precision, profile, and scan radius matter. But no matter how many solutions I posted I never got feedback from any devs and nothing seemed to be pointing in the direction that they're going to address it. I do like your idea though. Well, they've finally acknowledged the plight of scouts in the weekly feedback section, so hopefully this will be something that they consider when they do make adjustments. We'll keep on pushing anyway. Thanks for the support guys. I still remember back when they said they were going to add WP to Dropships. I'll see you in about a year when scouts take more than a stern look to kill.
Mobias Wyvern Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.07.06 00:25:00 - [20] - Quote Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this......... Planetside 2 Coming to PS4 this year 1080p Ultra settings at Night Intense Open Field Battle 100 Man Infantry Objective Push Desert Infantry Line Huge Desert Tank Battle 100 Tank Convoy 150 man Air Raid 65/0 Kill streak in the air NC Montage Planetside 2 Machinima Factions Explained Why you should Play Planetside 2 From Vets

Munin-Frey Fish Spotters Inc. 21	Posted - 2013.07.08 03:24:00 - [21] - Quote This is a shameless bump since I just started a similar thread without having found this one.


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