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Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
143
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 14:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Contact Grenades - I could see flashbangs as contact but frags? now we have people using grenades in CQC which means someone failed game design 101. even worse they do loads of damage when most ez mode weapons only wound. Requiring grenades to be equipped for use like nanohives cant get here fast enough.
Flaylock Pistols - The CPM tried to warn us after FF, CCP needs someone new to do explosive damage as they are horrible at it. Instead of rewarding aim its splash damage is almost the same as a direct hit. This cant happen in shooters. Basically a smaller more effective Mass Driver. This weapon breaks the game with its tiny CPU and PG cost, especially the core version. Every other weapon with value makes you give up something to equip it. Its a sidearm that is arguably the most devastating weapon in the game. Should be shown to designers everywhere as an example of why noob tubes are bad, because when skilled players get ahold of them all hell breaks loose.
Logis - "And one suit to rule them all" An Embarassment to game design everywhere. Meant to be a support class but high CPU and PG & slots have made it the perfect weapon. Has the slot flexibility to be more resilient than the heavy, faster than a scout and all while carrying every piece of equipment it needs making it as valuable as 3 people. about the only thing it cant do is leap tall buildings in a single bound.
LAVs - SMH. Showcases the horrible physics engine as 5mph impacts are instant kills when tanks cant run you over. Logi, Scout LAVs dont vary enough and stock lavs now can survive multiple adv AV grenades. utter Madness. further drives home the point that lavs should never have been free in the first place.
anyone else seen anything as bad as these? |
Skyhound Solbrave
Rough Riders.. The Superpowers
130
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why are Logis a design flaw when the Caldari logi is the problem?
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Poplo Furuya
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
185
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Really? That's what you're choosing? Those are all seriously small-time for 'worst game design issues'.
The first on my list would be the game modes all being critically lacking. Unfocused shared objective placeholders which don't naturally promote a wider team dynamic or much in the way of strategic plays.
Which leads into the second. Because of the match types' failings the integration of the infantry game and the vehicular game is really poor. In a game where one side was tasked with defence of something and the other with it's attack then the ability of HAVs to advance and suppress infantry, splitting them into AI and AV roles while they're at it, would open up a role for them in enabling an infantry push on the objective and the enemy force. Likewise HAVs playing defence serve as the rocks for such pushes to break themselves against. Dropships would also have a target of great strategic importance to airlift a strike force onto and a tangible frontline on the ground to bypass.
The third issue, lack of solid map design built with match objectives in mind and a clear idea of what kind of gameplay wants to be accomodated and promoted. To be fair if the map designers don't have anything to work with due to the game modes being as lacklustre as they are this isn't their fault. Map design without a proper brief on or personal understanding of the specific games battleflow is a nightmare.
An incredibly distant 4th, balance. Lots wrong here but it's just not as important as the above three things. |
Cruor Abominare
Horizons' Edge Orion Empire
88
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
ITT: brutal assaulting of a horse who has ceased to be. |
xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
400
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 15:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skyhound Solbrave wrote:Why are Logis a design flaw when the Caldari logi is the problem?
Caldari and Gallente... |
Galthur
CrimeWave Syndicate
94
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Skyhound Solbrave wrote:Why are Logis a design flaw when the Caldari logi is the problem?
Caldari and Gallente... Gallente assault needs a buff, logi is fine |
Aqil Aegivan
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
139
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Prius Vecht wrote:Contact Grenades - I could see flashbangs as contact but frags? now we have people using grenades in CQC which means someone failed game design 101. even worse they do loads of damage when most ez mode weapons only wound. Requiring grenades to be equipped for use like nanohives cant get here fast enough.
I think that the focus on powerful grenades was an avoidable misstep altogether. There is too little distance between using them badly and using them well for them to be balanced effectively. No amount of fiddling with damage will prevent a mechanic that just says "at any time you may cause x amount of damage, no exceptions" from being bad. I would have liked to see grenades and REs swap damage potentials but I doubt it'll happen, plus LAV spam means that ez AV 'nades are pretty much a needed bandaid for now (god knows I use them almost exclusively).
At least they nerfed nanohive based grenade spam.
Plus the fact that CCP don't have a check box for "does this item have an ISK equivalent?" was a turn off. P2W isn't really a problem here but I don't know why they'd promise to have ISK variants for everything while having no system in place to guarantee that. Having people manually check that equivalents exist is a workflow designed by an imbecile.
It's not list worthy but I'd like to know wtf is the Saga II for? Nothing about it makes any sense. |
bethany valvetino
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
50
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Posted - 2013.07.04 15:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
You bastards keep away from my Logi...
Shhh... Don't ruin the fun for everyone.
Logis (the Gallente one at least) does seem somewhat over powered. It's an Assault Suit with 3/4 Equipment slots... or it's a scout with dmg and hp points, that is quicker than a scout.. or it's an Orbital Strike generator... or it drops a bazillion drop uplinks...
There is no doubt that the logi class is the base all rounder, I do sometimes wonder why anyone botheres with Assault suits at all.
Having said all this, they are insanely SP hungry to make them all proto and losing them, (due to have more slots and therefore more modules than any other class) is more costly than other suits. also, all but the amarr suit only has one weapon slot.
So it's not all in favour of the OP logi... just nearly.
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Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
146
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 17:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Poplo Furuya wrote:Really? That's what you're choosing? Those are all seriously small-time for 'worst game design issues'.
The first on my list would be the game modes all being critically lacking. Unfocused shared objective placeholders which don't naturally promote a wider team dynamic or much in the way of strategic plays.
Which leads into the second. Because of the match types' failings the integration of the infantry game and the vehicular game is really poor. In a game where one side was tasked with defence of something and the other with it's attack then the ability of HAVs to advance and suppress infantry, splitting them into AI and AV roles while they're at it, would open up a role for them in enabling an infantry push on the objective and the enemy force. Likewise HAVs playing defence serve as the rocks for such pushes to break themselves against. Dropships would also have a target of great strategic importance to airlift a strike force onto and a tangible frontline on the ground to bypass.
The third issue, lack of solid map design built with match objectives in mind and a clear idea of what kind of gameplay wants to be accomodated and promoted. To be fair if the map designers don't have anything to work with due to the game modes being as lacklustre as they are this isn't their fault. Map design without a proper brief on or personal understanding of the specific games battleflow is a nightmare.
An incredibly distant 4th, balance. Lots wrong here but it's just not as important as the above three things.
I agree with the lack of modes but in a shooter the gunplay and combat interaction trumps variety of experience.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
599
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Swarm launchers - Auto seeking auto aiming no skill or aiming required yet they can fire and fly invisible and also bend around corners and do 270deg turns on the spot |
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Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
371
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Poplo Furuya wrote:Really? That's what you're choosing? Those are all seriously small-time for 'worst game design issues'.
The first on my list would be the game modes all being critically lacking. Unfocused shared objective placeholders which don't naturally promote a wider team dynamic or much in the way of strategic plays.
Which leads into the second. Because of the match types' failings the integration of the infantry game and the vehicular game is really poor. In a game where one side was tasked with defence of something and the other with it's attack then the ability of HAVs to advance and suppress infantry, splitting them into AI and AV roles while they're at it, would open up a role for them in enabling an infantry push on the objective and the enemy force. Likewise HAVs playing defence serve as the rocks for such pushes to break themselves against. Dropships would also have a target of great strategic importance to airlift a strike force onto and a tangible frontline on the ground to bypass.
The third issue, lack of solid map design built with match objectives in mind and a clear idea of what kind of gameplay wants to be accomodated and promoted. To be fair if the map designers don't have anything to work with due to the game modes being as lacklustre as they are this isn't their fault. Map design without a proper brief on or personal understanding of the specific games battleflow is a nightmare.
An incredibly distant 4th, balance. Lots wrong here but it's just not as important as the above three things. The problem, at least with your first two points*, is that you're not addressing a game design flaw, you're addressing a lack of available content. CCP didn't choose to not have enough game modes, they just haven't been able to implement them yet. While the lack of game modes and the small
*Your first two points are actually both "not enough game modes" |
Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
294
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Swarm launchers - Auto seeking auto aiming no skill or aiming required yet they can fire and fly invisible and also bend around corners and do 270deg turns on the spot
Hmmm...but their damage is relatively low. You also need multiple volleys to kill vehicles with swarms. Completely disagree with the 270 degree turn comment...they hit structures that are relatively close to the target, especially if those structures are between the target and person firing.
+1 to list, have to agree on game modes. Dust will continue to be free for me until I see the fixes above, and get something other than one mode (ambush isnt a mode...its deathmatch) with a variation (Domination) |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
143
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cruor Abominare wrote:ITT: brutal assaulting of a horse who has ceased to be.
it seems almost intimate at this point.
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4413
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Those would be my preferred, amusingly.
Also lowering the strafe speed, put apparently Disco 514 is popular, so.... |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
589
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Swarm launchers - Auto seeking auto aiming no skill or aiming required yet they can fire and fly invisible and also bend around corners and do 270deg turns on the spot Swarm Launchers are actually fine as they are. What is needed is counter measures (flack launchers) and a beeping sound when someone locks you. Also, damage specific resistance plating (much higher resistance, but only to one damage type. ie. Explosive) is needed for Armour Tanked HAVGÇÖs. This type of damage specific resistance plating is used in EVE. The counter measures would be a new mechanic. |
Poplo Furuya
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
190
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Posted - 2013.07.04 18:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:Poplo Furuya wrote:Really? That's what you're choosing? Those are all seriously small-time for 'worst game design issues'.
The first on my list would be the game modes all being critically lacking. Unfocused shared objective placeholders which don't naturally promote a wider team dynamic or much in the way of strategic plays.
Which leads into the second. Because of the match types' failings the integration of the infantry game and the vehicular game is really poor. In a game where one side was tasked with defence of something and the other with it's attack then the ability of HAVs to advance and suppress infantry, splitting them into AI and AV roles while they're at it, would open up a role for them in enabling an infantry push on the objective and the enemy force. Likewise HAVs playing defence serve as the rocks for such pushes to break themselves against. Dropships would also have a target of great strategic importance to airlift a strike force onto and a tangible frontline on the ground to bypass.
The third issue, lack of solid map design built with match objectives in mind and a clear idea of what kind of gameplay wants to be accomodated and promoted. To be fair if the map designers don't have anything to work with due to the game modes being as lacklustre as they are this isn't their fault. Map design without a proper brief on or personal understanding of the specific games battleflow is a nightmare.
An incredibly distant 4th, balance. Lots wrong here but it's just not as important as the above three things. The problem, at least with your first two points*, is that you're not addressing a game design flaw, you're addressing a lack of available content. CCP didn't choose to not have enough game modes, they just haven't been able to implement them yet. While the lack of game modes and the small *Your first two points are actually both "not enough game modes" It's actually "no good game mode" rather than "not enough game modes". One which delivers is better than ten which don't. If Skirmish 2.0 was good I'd retract points 1 and 3. If it also gave both vehicles and infantry a solid role within it's confines I'd also retract point 2.
The reason I have balance as the last priority is I don't think we have a game mode which works well enough to be worth balancing around. Game mode dictates how the game is played so a major alteration on that score is a paradigm shift which will affect how you approach balance. |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
148
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Swarm launchers - Auto seeking auto aiming no skill or aiming required yet they can fire and fly invisible and also bend around corners and do 270deg turns on the spot Swarm Launchers are actually fine as they are. What is needed is counter measures (flack launchers) and a beeping sound when someone locks you. Also, damage specific resistance plating (much higher resistance, but only to one damage type. ie. Explosive) is needed for Armour Tanked HAVGÇÖs. This type of damage specific resistance plating is used in EVE. The counter measures would be a new mechanic.
+1 to countermeasures. seems adding lock on & incoming swarm alarms and assets [with a cool-down] that you fire to fool swarms would be so easy. |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
589
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Prius Vecht wrote:Contact Grenades - I could see flashbangs as contact but frags? now we have people using grenades in CQC which means someone failed game design 101. even worse they do loads of damage when most ez mode weapons only wound. Requiring grenades to be equipped for use like nanohives cant get here fast enough.
Flaylock Pistols - The CPM tried to warn us after FF, CCP needs someone new to do explosive damage as they are horrible at it. Instead of rewarding aim its splash damage is almost the same as a direct hit. This cant happen in shooters. Basically a smaller more effective Mass Driver. This weapon breaks the game with its tiny CPU and PG cost, especially the core version. Every other weapon with value makes you give up something to equip it. Its a sidearm that is arguably the most devastating weapon in the game. Should be shown to designers everywhere as an example of why noob tubes are bad, because when skilled players get ahold of them all hell breaks loose.
Logis - "And one suit to rule them all" An Embarassment to game design everywhere. Meant to be a support class but high CPU and PG & slots have made it the perfect weapon. Has the slot flexibility to be more resilient than the heavy, faster than a scout and all while carrying every piece of equipment it needs making it as valuable as 3 people. about the only thing it cant do is leap tall buildings in a single bound.
LAVs - SMH. Showcases the horrible physics engine as 5mph impacts are instant kills when tanks cant run you over. Logi, Scout LAVs dont vary enough and stock lavs now can survive multiple adv AV grenades. utter Madness. further drives home the point that lavs should never have been free in the first place.
anyone else seen anything as bad as these? Contact Grenades: They are simply not needed. Also the Flash Bang contact grenade is a great idea. If it left a cloud of smoke that took 3 or 4 seconds to disparate it would be great for Scouts who got caught sneaking up on someone. Throw one down and run.
Flaylock Pistols: Since they are easier to aim than a Mass Driver, reducing the splash damage a bit would make sense. I think issues with Armour tanking is making the Flaylock Pistal seem worse than it would be if Armour tanking was balanced better.
Logis: May be more of a problem with Assault Suit bonuses being underwhelming. Although I love the clips size bonus on my Minmitar Assault Suit since I use SMG as my primary weapon. (Allows me to carry a situational weapon.) The Caldari Logi bonus may need to be looked at though.
LAVs: If they manage to make impact damage proportional to velocity, this would completely solve the LAV problem. They could still kill people at high speeds, but they would cease to be a CQC weapon. I do think that a LAV pining you against a wall should crush you though. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
2200
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
This isn't a list of game design flaws, it's a balancing QQ. You want game design flaws, here's my top 4: Memory leaks
Draw distance and pop in issues
Hit detection and aiming (getting better now)
Inconsistent frame rate that causes unecessary deaths |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
137
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:This isn't a list of game design flaws, it's a balancing QQ. You want game design flaws, here's my top 4: Memory leaks
Draw distance and pop in issues
Hit detection and aiming (getting better now)
Inconsistent frame rate that causes unecessary deaths
Nah - your list is a technical deficiency or "coding issue" list. Those are problems that CCP have trouble fixing but arent intended.
OP (and others) is talking about deliberate steps taken by CCP to make the game fun / challenging etc but instead did the opposite and need to be corrected. |
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Scheneighnay McBob
Blueberry Gunners
2063
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Flaylocks aren't a problem this build. Don't know what it is, but it's somehow ridiculously hard to hit people with them now.
I think the top game design issue is bias towards medium frame AR users |
JimJones22
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2013.07.09 02:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
OP is right those examples are currently killing dust. |
KING CHECKMATE
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
311
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Posted - 2013.07.09 02:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Swarm launchers - Auto seeking auto aiming no skill or aiming required yet they can fire and fly invisible and also bend around corners and do 270deg turns on the spot
That dont 1HKO a militia LAV unless its PROTO and with PROFICIENCY.
>..>
Your point? |
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