DUST Search - Scouts: Upcoming Weapons Combos and Role Analysis

Wojciak wrote:

Oswald Rehnquist wrote:

Wojciak wrote:

Scouts are scouts, get scanners and up-links. what we need ( for all frames) is more suit classes overall. For light i can see Classes like Saboteur (explosives and hacking), Assassin (Weapons [race related]), Field medic (healing and reviving), And others.

Based on your suggestions I can tell you don't play scout because those are in no way solutions to any of the issues plaguing scouts. We can only operate with what we have been given, and as it stands we only have weapons as a viable source of wps.

1) good up links consume about a little less than half of the scouts entire cpu pool, you can run it for added wps but with one equipment slot, its not going to hold you up on its own, hence the other weapon components are still vital.

2) Scanners generate zero war points and reveals your position to all enemy units for a short time. To progress further in the game you do need to produce a formula which is able to generate you an average of 500 wp a match to make steady progress, that is done again through weapons.

3) Slots and modules allow you to design what you want, this isn't a hard class based game, your solutions are to really break up any versatility of the scout where we should be expanding it, not limiting it between 3 to 4 different dropsuits that we have to spec in to, especially considering the right logi can form itself into a psuedo version of any suit.

4) Plus medic roles are difficult to fulfill without logi defense stats, module count, and expanded equipment. Running with the team to be able to apply support such as that would many deaths for the scout.

What i was stating is a solution that CCP is working on to the grind of the game, as in there is one combat oriented role for each frame and one "support". I know scouts that can do great things with what should be a semi combat oriented suite. What i have stated is not an instant fix. As to you #3 yes you are right that it is any suite can be used to do anything, but there still need to be more of a variety of the frames like EVE has, a scout should be able to not go toe to toe with heavy ore medium frames but should be like a Boxer like Muhammad Ali and use the mobility it has to win. To help the scout suite right now i do not know how to help, but keep in mind that you are the Light class and are not front like fighter.

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Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 44	Posted - 2013.07.04 04:57:00 - [1] - Quote This to me is priceless along with the changes in weapon swap speed. Some of it we were able to guess but this lays it out for all weapons and to their exact amounts. https://dust514.com/newsitem/?friendlyid=weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond&channelid=60&channelname=blog&newsitempagetobeselected=blog Honestly, burn those weapon modifiers into your brain. Scouts can go down in a blink regardless of modifiers but killing non scouts, especially getting a successful flank on those with high ehp, this is thy thing to focus on due to how essential it is for scouts to improve their standing. Successful flanking has a very short time frame and low module count means you have less damage mods to passively/lazily raise your attack to increase your odds of success, which means we have to rely on alternative means. There are two basic constants that I believe we already instinctively know. 1) Shields have to go down before armor so your lead has to be anti shield and your cleaner has to be anti armor. 2) It is quicker if your lead and your cleaner are both performed while maintaining the same relative distance from the enemy. So what does this mean for flanking? Well the way I see it, flanking can be divided by cqc or range (medium distance) CQC benefits from high speed and good set up. A good set up is to be able to see your enemy when they can't see you, so this involves better detection/stealth. Now under this playstyle the Min Scout is the king of speed, no contest and I believe with the Gal Scout's greater slot count, low slot layout (set up oriented), and racial bonus (which should be buffed) is made for detection/stealth builds. So an effective weapon set up would be to lead either with a shotgun / Ion Pistol (charge shot), both of which are perfect for an opener considering the spike damage and coverage. Depending on how you want to mop the floor, Subs allow you to dance/strafe your surprised opponent and Flaylocks functions as an effective secondary spike with a little more range to finish off a fleeing enemy. Note Even if flaylocks are nerfed they would still be quite effective against armor Note Min Scout is able to pull off Knives as a lead due to their bonus, justifying taking away points and mods towards guns. Range flanking benefits from being able to lead your opponent to a desired spot and to observe the battle field, it also allows scouts with terrible base stats to function. Downsides to range are obscuring obstacles and tracers, while the benefit is......safer distance, which is big. A Scram Pistol followed by a Magsec or Bolt Pistol would fulfill the desired coverage to quickly end the conflict. The Scrm Pistol's 20% is great and the potential to start with a head shot is even better, the other two have slightly more range allowing you to finish off a fleeing opponent and dropping their armor. Now with the other two scouts yet to be released, I bet they will be range oriented. Considering that Caldaris are not fast, more highs than lows (assumptions made due to shield taking), and is known for range, I think Cal Scouts will be EWAR oriented, which benefits from being able to see the environment. The Amarr Scout is simply a mystery to me, perhaps they will be oriented towards another facet of EWAR? While I can make long stretches with conclusions, CCP has not been as consistent with Amarr warfare ideology. Also I am not beyond my self to understand that perhaps I have switched Amarr and Gallante around in roles. Essentially I am looking for bar room theories here to try to preemptively examine the future of the scout as CCP starts to move down their road map. I am also wanting to hear a little bit of criticism in case I am off on what I have presented. Whatever roles they give the future scouts, weapon setup for damage coverage will be exponentially more important for success than it would be for other suits due to the lonely / small groups nature of flanking. That being said, I am curious on your input on the subject matter both between and within scouts. Regardless, thank you for your time and consideration
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 58	Posted - 2013.07.04 05:08:00 - [2] - Quote Solid analysis. I have the same feeling about the Caldari Scout and likewise have absolutely no clue what the Amarr Scout will specialize in. I also think it is worthy to note that Flux Grenades also make a great lead weapon for cqc (and range if you have great grenade aiming/timing).
Gaelon Thrace DUST University Ivy League 21	Posted - 2013.07.04 05:11:00 - [3] - Quote I run Gallente shotgun/SMG scout and I came to the same conclusion immediately upon reading the dev blog. Lead with shotty, sweep with SMG. Increased swap speed in 1.2 should make this easier to pull off. As for future development of scouts, all I can say is that I can't wait for cloaks.
Kador Ouryon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 25	Posted - 2013.07.04 05:18:00 - [4] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Solid analysis. I have the same feeling about the Caldari Scout and likewise have absolutely no clue what the Amarr Scout will specialize in. I also think it is worthy to note that Flux Grenades also make a great lead weapon for cqc (and range if you have great grenade aiming/timing). Amarr Scout is likely to be forced into something ridiculously out of character like shield tanking..... Caldari Scout I would love to see some sort of ewar bonus....but magsec will have to do for now.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 59	Posted - 2013.07.04 05:23:00 - [5] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: Amarr Scout is likely to be forced into something ridiculously out of character like shield tanking..... But that's still somewhat useful. More likely has subpar stats all around but features an extra equipment slot to "make up" for it.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 45	Posted - 2013.07.05 02:43:00 - [6] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Solid analysis. I have the same feeling about the Caldari Scout and likewise have absolutely no clue what the Amarr Scout will specialize in. I also think it is worthy to note that Flux Grenades also make a great lead weapon for cqc (and range if you have great grenade aiming/timing). Your right about the flux grenade, that is a pretty bad one to miss on my part so thank you for catching that, it would probably work will the the scram pistol considering its flaws.
Wojciak Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire 45	Posted - 2013.07.05 02:55:00 - [7] - Quote Scouts are scouts, get scanners and up-links. what we need ( for all frames) is more suit classes overall. For light i can see Classes like Saboteur (explosives and hacking), Assassin (Weapons [race related]), Field medic (healing and reviving), And others.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis 103	Posted - 2013.07.05 03:05:00 - [8] - Quote Wojciak wrote: Scouts are scouts, get scanners and up-links. what we need ( for all frames) is more suit classes overall. For light i can see Classes like Saboteur (explosives and hacking), Assassin (Weapons [race related]), Field medic (healing and reviving), And others. You sir, just basically described what a Logi Suit currently does.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 45	Posted - 2013.07.05 03:05:00 - [9] - Quote Wojciak wrote: Scouts are scouts, get scanners and up-links. what we need ( for all frames) is more suit classes overall. For light i can see Classes like Saboteur (explosives and hacking), Assassin (Weapons [race related]), Field medic (healing and reviving), And others. Based on your suggestions I can tell you don't play scout because those are in no way solutions to any of the issues plaguing scouts. We can only operate with what we have been given, and as it stands we only have weapons as a viable source of wps. 1) good up links consume about a little less than half of the scouts entire cpu pool, you can run it for added wps but with one equipment slot, its not going to hold you up on its own, hence the other weapon components are still vital. 2) Scanners generate zero war points and reveals your position to all enemy units for a short time. To progress further in the game you do need to produce a formula which is able to generate you an average of 500 wp a match to make steady progress, that is done again through weapons. 3) Slots and modules allow you to design what you want, this isn't a hard class based game, your solutions are to really break up any versatility of the scout where we should be expanding it, not limiting it between 3 to 4 different dropsuits that we have to spec in to, especially considering the right logi can form itself into a psuedo version of any suit. 4) Plus medic roles are difficult to fulfill without logi defense stats, module count, and expanded equipment. Running with the team to be able to apply support such as that would many deaths for the scout.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 67	Posted - 2013.07.05 03:08:00 - [10] - Quote Wojciak wrote: Scouts are scouts, get scanners and up-links. what we need ( for all frames) is more suit classes overall. For light i can see Classes like Saboteur (explosives and hacking), Assassin (Weapons [race related]), Field medic (healing and reviving), And others. Light suits will never make good field medics. They just don't have the ehp to stay where the action is so they can heal/revive their team.

Wojciak Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire 45	Posted - 2013.07.05 03:24:00 - [11] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Wojciak wrote: Scouts are scouts, get scanners and up-links. what we need ( for all frames) is more suit classes overall. For light i can see Classes like Saboteur (explosives and hacking), Assassin (Weapons [race related]), Field medic (healing and reviving), And others. Based on your suggestions I can tell you don't play scout because those are in no way solutions to any of the issues plaguing scouts. We can only operate with what we have been given, and as it stands we only have weapons as a viable source of wps. 1) good up links consume about a little less than half of the scouts entire cpu pool, you can run it for added wps but with one equipment slot, its not going to hold you up on its own, hence the other weapon components are still vital. 2) Scanners generate zero war points and reveals your position to all enemy units for a short time. To progress further in the game you do need to produce a formula which is able to generate you an average of 500 wp a match to make steady progress, that is done again through weapons. 3) Slots and modules allow you to design what you want, this isn't a hard class based game, your solutions are to really break up any versatility of the scout where we should be expanding it, not limiting it between 3 to 4 different dropsuits that we have to spec in to, especially considering the right logi can form itself into a psuedo version of any suit. 4) Plus medic roles are difficult to fulfill without logi defense stats, module count, and expanded equipment. Running with the team to be able to apply support such as that would many deaths for the scout. What i was stating is a solution that CCP is working on to the grind of the game, as in there is one combat oriented role for each frame and one "support". I know scouts that can do great things with what should be a semi combat oriented suite. What i have stated is not an instant fix. As to you #3 yes you are right that it is any suite can be used to do anything, but there still need to be more of a variety of the frames like EVE has, a scout should be able to not go toe to toe with heavy ore medium frames but should be like a Boxer like Muhammad Ali and use the mobility it has to win. To help the scout suite right now i do not know how to help, but keep in mind that you are the Light class and are not front like fighter.
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 22	Posted - 2013.07.05 03:26:00 - [12] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Light suits will never make good field medics. They just don't have the ehp to stay where the action is so they can heal/revive their team. I disagree. I've explained in other posts that I basically run a STD Gallente Logi with less than 300 eHP; sure, it's difficult to use, but it's not impossible. It actually does make a pretty good field medic, so I could see a Light Frame psuedo-Logi. It would be like the old Gallente suit from Chromosome; I'm trying to resurrect it as the Recon Light Frame role.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 46	Posted - 2013.07.05 03:30:00 - [13] - Quote Wojciak wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Wojciak wrote: Scouts are scouts, get scanners and up-links. what we need ( for all frames) is more suit classes overall. For light i can see Classes like Saboteur (explosives and hacking), Assassin (Weapons [race related]), Field medic (healing and reviving), And others. Based on your suggestions I can tell you don't play scout because those are in no way solutions to any of the issues plaguing scouts. We can only operate with what we have been given, and as it stands we only have weapons as a viable source of wps. 1) good up links consume about a little less than half of the scouts entire cpu pool, you can run it for added wps but with one equipment slot, its not going to hold you up on its own, hence the other weapon components are still vital. 2) Scanners generate zero war points and reveals your position to all enemy units for a short time. To progress further in the game you do need to produce a formula which is able to generate you an average of 500 wp a match to make steady progress, that is done again through weapons. 3) Slots and modules allow you to design what you want, this isn't a hard class based game, your solutions are to really break up any versatility of the scout where we should be expanding it, not limiting it between 3 to 4 different dropsuits that we have to spec in to, especially considering the right logi can form itself into a psuedo version of any suit. 4) Plus medic roles are difficult to fulfill without logi defense stats, module count, and expanded equipment. Running with the team to be able to apply support such as that would many deaths for the scout. What i was stating is a solution that CCP is working on to the grind of the game, as in there is one combat oriented role for each frame and one "support". I know scouts that can do great things with what should be a semi combat oriented suite. What i have stated is not an instant fix. As to you #3 yes you are right that it is any suite can be used to do anything, but there still need to be more of a variety of the frames like EVE has, a scout should be able to not go toe to toe with heavy ore medium frames but should be like a Boxer like Muhammad Ali and use the mobility it has to win. To help the scout suite right now i do not know how to help, but keep in mind that you are the Light class and are not front like fighter. As it stands scouts can't stand toe to toe in any shape or form beyond getting a real clear drop on someone. I was also an advocate of getting read of the neo matrix scout dodging when all the assaults were jumping into scouts way back in Beta. What we need is negative logi capabilities, particularity Ewar and better flanking abilities given through cloaks.
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 23	Posted - 2013.07.05 03:36:00 - [14] - Quote I haven't really played Scout all too much, but I adore Light Frames and am trying to keep up with their performance. I don't really have anything to say about the CPU/PG because I don't have enough experience with the suits, but I do know one thing that I think should be changed. The Scout should receive an extra Equipment slot based on pure on logic and reasoning; not stats necessarily. How can a Scout be a Scout if it can't carry a Drop Uplink and an Active Scanner? What kind of half-*** Scout is only doing part of the job? I don't think the Scout will truly be a Scout until it receives that extra Equipment slot and can properly fulfill its niche. Having one Equipment slot on the Scout not only underpowered the Scout, but also doesn't allow it to do what it's name says it should. Especially with the Cloak coming; what Scout is only using a Cloak? Having no Drop Uplinks or Active Scanners in this case proves that the Scout is not really a Scout.


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