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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
2028
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Someone should probably mention to you guys that the mail servlet used to send out mass emails like "hey, players, there's a human endurance event" or "please fill out a survey" contains a link at the top labelled "View this message in a browser" which will open links.mail.dust514.com/servlet/MailView followed by a series of variables which tell the system who you are and which message you want to look at.
Unfortunately, if you make the appropriate changes to the part of the URL which tells the servlet who you are, you can view a message that was sent to someone else. You can also view the email address associated with their PSN. Presumably you could farm a list of character names and associated email addresses.
CCP were advised of this mid-May. It's on a third-party provider to actually fix the thing, but if CCP aren't going to disable the system, it seems appropriate that everyone be warned of the possibility that their email address has been disclosed. As far as I know, there is no evidence that this has occurred but it's polite to let customers know that the possibility existed.
I kind of expected that CCP would do this but, personally, have received no such notification, so here it is. Hopefully CCP comment in here to say that the reason no announcement was made is that they have fully explored the possibility of this being exploited and determined that nobody is at risk but the fact that the system remains vulnerable concerns me enough to advise players myself. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
711
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well ****
Ugh, and Im betting now that some jackass who didnt notice this on his own is trying to farm email accounts now |
Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
109
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Seems legit. Thanks for the heads up.
+1 for OP -1 for CCP not taking this seriously enough to fix sooner. |
GLiMPSE X
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
205
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:Someone should probably mention to you guys that the mail servlet used to send out mass emails like "hey, players, there's a human endurance event" or "please fill out a survey" contains a link at the top labelled "View this message in a browser" which will open links.mail.dust514.com/servlet/MailView followed by a series of variables which tell the system who you are and which message you want to look at.
Unfortunately, if you make the appropriate changes to the part of the URL which tells the servlet who you are, you can view a message that was sent to someone else. You can also view the email address associated with their PSN. Presumably you could farm a list of character names and associated email addresses.
CCP were advised of this mid-May. It's on a third-party provider to actually fix the thing, but if CCP aren't going to disable the system, it seems appropriate that everyone be warned of the possibility that their email address has been disclosed. As far as I know, there is no evidence that this has occurred but it's polite to let customers know that the possibility existed.
I kind of expected that CCP would do this but, personally, have received no such notification, so here it is. Hopefully CCP comment in here to say that the reason no announcement was made is that they have fully explored the possibility of this being exploited and determined that nobody is at risk but the fact that the system remains vulnerable concerns me enough to advise players myself.
This is why we keep you on staff there big dog... |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
129
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
I never use important E-mail addresses for gaming, most of them are just Ghost hotmail E-mails, or inactive addresses. Hell.. i don't even check most of that E-mails, because i forgot the password of most of them. |
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions
478
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Not saying it's not good or anything, but wouldn't you think that actually bringing this public would make it happen faster than to keep pushing CCP to change their things... just a thought.
But then, I'm far more concerned over other things that needs sorted.
Good work!
edit/and for obvious reasons I'm now going to go do exactly what you warn about just because I wasn't aware of it
/c |
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GLiMPSE X
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
205
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
ChribbaX wrote:Not saying it's not good or anything, but wouldn't you think that actually bringing this public would make it happen faster than to keep pushing CCP to change their things... just a thought. But then, I'm far more concerned over other things that needs sorted. Good work! edit/and for obvious reasons I'm now going to go do exactly what you warn about just because I wasn't aware of it /c
Unfortunately, most of the time it takes public scrutiny to get these things pushed through. Mith followed the norm in the industry by giving them plenty of notice prior to publishing his findings. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
2032
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 10:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
GLiMPSE X wrote:Unfortunately, most of the time it takes public scrutiny to get these things pushed through. Mith followed the norm in the industry by giving them plenty of notice prior to publishing his findings.
Basically this is my position. I put a great deal of consideration into creating the thread, fully aware that disclosure would give a small window of opportunity to exploiters. Lack of disclosure gives a greater window.
I honestly expected a temporary solution to immediately close the hole. More than a month later, no such patch/service suspension is in place and without public attention the possibility exists that further time could be used by anyone else aware of the issue to exploit it.
IMO, ideally this thread will result in the servlet being taken offline in part or in whole until it is secure. |
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions
478
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
GLiMPSE X wrote:ChribbaX wrote:Not saying it's not good or anything, but wouldn't you think that actually bringing this public would make it happen faster than to keep pushing CCP to change their things... just a thought. But then, I'm far more concerned over other things that needs sorted. Good work! edit/and for obvious reasons I'm now going to go do exactly what you warn about just because I wasn't aware of it /c Unfortunately, most of the time it takes public scrutiny to get these things pushed through. Mith followed the norm in the industry by giving them plenty of notice prior to publishing his findings. Yep it does. You'll get plenty of non PSN account trying to guess hashes there as well I'm sure, I know I'm signed up for their newsletters and stuff on addresses that are not PSN, but can agree it's a bit of bad habit to include the actual address in the html. |
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions
478
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:GLiMPSE X wrote:Unfortunately, most of the time it takes public scrutiny to get these things pushed through. Mith followed the norm in the industry by giving them plenty of notice prior to publishing his findings. Basically this is my position. I put a great deal of consideration into creating the thread, fully aware that disclosure would give a small window of opportunity to exploiters. Lack of disclosure gives a greater window. I honestly expected a temporary solution to immediately close the hole. More than a month later, no such patch/service suspension is in place and without public attention the possibility exists that further time could be used by anyone else aware of the issue to exploit it. IMO, ideally this thread will result in the servlet being taken offline in part or in whole until it is secure. Taking it offline would mean they now have their entire PR and game sendouts offline. Since it's used for anything that they send out and has been for years. But yeah leaving the unsubscribe and removing the email from html should be easy enough.
/c |
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Jaqen Morghalis
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
76
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Oh, no! Not my email address!
That information is supposed to be top-secret level 5 classified! Now my secret identity is blown! My loved ones are in danger! |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
2034
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 10:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Oh, no! Not my email address!
That information is supposed to be top-secret level 5 classified! Now my secret identity is blown! My loved ones are in danger!
Seroiusly, though, what's the worst-case scenario here, some extra spam emails? Derp. I'm glad you don't suffer at all from having your email address known. Some would prefer their FirstName.LastName@gmail not be attached to their character. I don't mind giving them that right.
I'm out of this thread now. Those who are pleased to know, you're welcome. Those who inevitably react with"OMG MITHILEAKS", I'm not going to engage with because it would look too much like returning to the forums. |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
129
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Oh, no! Not my email address!
That information is supposed to be top-secret level 5 classified! Now my secret identity is blown! My loved ones are in danger!
Seroiusly, though, what's the worst-case scenario here, some extra spam emails?
Actually, worst-case scenario is typing about it in this thread..most of my E-mail accounts are ghost towns, that i use exclusively for spawn E-mails. Is where junk and spawn rubbish go to die....a graveyard for internet BS. |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
2258
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've snipped the explanation of how to do this, but I've also forwarded this on to our security team. Obviously giving people a way to farm the e-mail addresses of PSN accounts is not a good thing. EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents
Muhahaha, I have a signature and CCP Frame doesn't! |
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Jaqen Morghalis
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
77
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Oh, no! Not my email address!
That information is supposed to be top-secret level 5 classified! Now my secret identity is blown! My loved ones are in danger!
Seroiusly, though, what's the worst-case scenario here, some extra spam emails? Derp. I'm glad you don't suffer at all from having your email address known. Some would prefer their FirstName.LastName@gmail not be attached to their character. I don't mind giving them that right. I'm out of this thread now. Those who are pleased to know, you're welcome. Those who inevitably react with"OMG MITHILEAKS", I'm not going to engage with because it would look too much like returning to the forums.
Sorry, but I just don't see how this as the seroius issue that people are making it out to be. It's not my home address or credit card number, it's my email address, something that gets given out ALL the time!
Maybe if you could explain how this grievous oversight and negligence on CCP's part might potentially cause me more than a slight inconvenience, I might share your concern over this "threat" to my personal security. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
2034
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 10:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Fair enough if you want to edit out that bit, Eterne. Please also remove it from GLiMPSE X's post where it is quoted.
My feeling was that identifying the mail servlet gave as much useful info to a would-be attacker as that brief comment about the method, but I don't want to spell it out further than necessary if you think the post did that. |
GLiMPSE X
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
205
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Oh, no! Not my email address!
That information is supposed to be top-secret level 5 classified! Now my secret identity is blown! My loved ones are in danger!
Seroiusly, though, what's the worst-case scenario here, some extra spam emails? Actually, worst-case scenario is typing about it in this thread..most of my E-mail accounts are ghost towns, that i use exclusively for spawn E-mails. Is where junk and spawn rubbish go to die....a graveyard for internet BS.
The 'worst case' isn't increased spam, it's losing your unspent sps, wallet, and that of your corp. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
2036
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 10:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Maybe if you could explain how this grievous oversight and negligence on CCP's part might potentially cause me more than a slight inconvenience, I might share your concern over this "threat" to my personal security.
I'm not going to enumerate the possible attacks based on having the personal details and PSN login of another player because I don't want to give anyone any ideas. Sorry if that doesn't convince you, but I'm mainly looking to advise people who feel it significant. |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax. CRONOS.
417
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 10:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
woo, my email address is known, it's not like I don't advertise it on my website, or someone couldn't guess it from my psn name or anything. |
Jaqen Morghalis
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
77
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 10:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Maybe if you could explain how this grievous oversight and negligence on CCP's part might potentially cause me more than a slight inconvenience, I might share your concern over this "threat" to my personal security. I'm not going to enumerate the possible attacks based on having the personal details and PSN login of another player because I don't want to give anyone any ideas. Sorry if that doesn't convince you, but I'm mainly looking to advise people who feel it significant.
I still don't understand (honestly, sorry if I'm being dense). I thought you said a person could get my email address, so where are they getting "personal details" and my login password from?
Without those, what's the worst they could do, send me emails?
How is my email address alone enough information to be in any way useful? |
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Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
130
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Right... so is that EvE metagaming thing you guys are worrying about. I guess i can understand that, but... still...Who will hack an account just for that ? it seems a sad thing to do, and that people should get a life. |
GLiMPSE X
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
205
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Posted - 2013.07.03 10:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Mithridates VI wrote:Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Maybe if you could explain how this grievous oversight and negligence on CCP's part might potentially cause me more than a slight inconvenience, I might share your concern over this "threat" to my personal security. I'm not going to enumerate the possible attacks based on having the personal details and PSN login of another player because I don't want to give anyone any ideas. Sorry if that doesn't convince you, but I'm mainly looking to advise people who feel it significant. I still don't understand (honestly, sorry if I'm being dense). I thought you said a person could get my email address, so where are they getting "personal details" and my login password from? Without those, what's the worst they could do, send me emails? How is my email address alone enough information to be in any way useful?
google. |
Khal V'Rani
Nephilim Initiative
152
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 11:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mithridates,
Just thought I'd pop in and say I'm slowly becoming a fan of your postings. Keep up the good work.
+1 |
Jaqen Morghalis
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
77
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 11:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
It's an email address.
That thing is on my business cards! I give them out to strangers! Gasp! Oh noooooeeeeeesssssss!!!!!
Just seems like an awful lot of trouble for someone to go through just to spam me with emails. There are far easier, and more effective, ways to cause me harm, if someone really wanted to. |
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
92
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Posted - 2013.07.03 11:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Mithridates VI wrote:Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Maybe if you could explain how this grievous oversight and negligence on CCP's part might potentially cause me more than a slight inconvenience, I might share your concern over this "threat" to my personal security. I'm not going to enumerate the possible attacks based on having the personal details and PSN login of another player because I don't want to give anyone any ideas. Sorry if that doesn't convince you, but I'm mainly looking to advise people who feel it significant. I still don't understand (honestly, sorry if I'm being dense). I thought you said a person could get my email address, so where are they getting "personal details" and my login password from? Without those, what's the worst they could do, send me emails? How is my email address alone enough information to be in any way useful?
Because one of those 100 internet sites / services you've signed up for with your email as your username has $hit security and allows you to reset your password w/o a second level of authentication. Then in that 1 site you've also input your date of birth or home address which is the authentication factor for 3 more sites which then .... etc etc etc. 15 steps later they're in a site/game that has your credit card saved on file and is susceptible to buying in-game currency which can be RMT'd or whatever.
Security breaches occur across a multitude of interconnections, often run by people other than the original source. You might split your emails but having your primary gaming email in the wild is rarely awesome. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
587
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Posted - 2013.07.03 11:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dont use an important email for gaming?
Generally i check it now n again and if its not emails about forums posts or getting banned its spam anyways advertising **** games to me on the PSN |
Jaqen Morghalis
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
77
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Posted - 2013.07.03 11:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Shion Typhon wrote:Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Mithridates VI wrote:Jaqen Morghalis wrote:Maybe if you could explain how this grievous oversight and negligence on CCP's part might potentially cause me more than a slight inconvenience, I might share your concern over this "threat" to my personal security. I'm not going to enumerate the possible attacks based on having the personal details and PSN login of another player because I don't want to give anyone any ideas. Sorry if that doesn't convince you, but I'm mainly looking to advise people who feel it significant. I still don't understand (honestly, sorry if I'm being dense). I thought you said a person could get my email address, so where are they getting "personal details" and my login password from? Without those, what's the worst they could do, send me emails? How is my email address alone enough information to be in any way useful? Because one of those 100 internet sites / services you've signed up for with your email as your username has $hit security and allows you to reset your password w/o a second level of authentication. Then in that 1 site you've also input your date of birth or home address which is the authentication factor for 3 more sites which then .... etc etc etc. 15 steps later they're in a site/game that has your credit card saved on file and is susceptible to buying in-game currency which can be RMT'd or whatever. Security breaches occur across a multitude of interconnections, often run by people other than the original source. You might split your emails but having your primary gaming email in the wild is rarely awesome.
Fair enough, thank you for the explanation.
Still not too worried, though. |
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CCP Stillman
C C P C C P Alliance
1
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Posted - 2013.07.03 11:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Hi there,
We were indeed made aware of a vulnerability in the email system that we use, which is a third-party hosted system. When we were made aware, we rewarded the reporter as per our PLEX for Snitches program, and we contacted our partners who handle this for us to address the issue.
As a part of that, we no longer include the email which it's sent to as a part of the mail. Also, technical changes were made on the backend to prevent abuse of this at a large scale. We're still actively working with them to fix this issue fully, but this is not something that gets done over night.
We're always extremely grateful when people report these sorts of things to us, and rest assured we took action and had a conference call with our partners the very same day we became aware, and we continue to work with them to ensure that this problem is sorted out fully.
-Stillman |
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Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
912
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Posted - 2013.07.03 12:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
To those saying "so what" I'd suggest that as you develop a larger internet presence it gets easier to track you down. If your email contains your name, and you provide identifying comments in a forum, then a Google search on your name might lead to memberships, schools, publications, facebook, etc.
Even a small item like this can be the missing element that ties all your internet activity together and zeros in on you, your home, your job and/or your family. If you don't have your own family yet then maybe you don't understand the concern level that this can cause for some people.
It's great that you personally don't mind... but some people actual desire (or need) privacy for various reasons. |
Jin Robot
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
1187
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Posted - 2013.07.03 12:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
I am so secretive, even I dont know my real name. |
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