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Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
408
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Posted - 2013.06.21 00:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know im risking a lock and ban here but since this debate is essentially taking place between 2 people in feedback i thought i'd open it up some more to GD since there is more traffic here.
While my feedback is feedback, there is still a discussion to be had since there seems to be a fundamental divide in our players. Im told I don't speak for everyone and that my opinion is not only in the minority but it would destroy the game. So i've decided to let others weigh in and judge for themselves.
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Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
408
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Posted - 2013.06.21 00:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:You went through all that trouble preparing this post only to whine about not being able to no-life the game. Harden the **** up. Have you not figured out this has little benefit for the veteran players. What part of grow Wider not Taller do you not get or have you been gone for so long from this game you don't see the increasing disparity between New and Veteran players. An uncapped system allows new players to get to that precious 10-15M SP mark and gets them into battle shape a faster pace. The more battle ready the more likely you begin to see people venturing into higher competitive arenas which gives more content to the veterans who are basically isolated to closed beta testers. Perhaps its more selfishness on your part after all if New players can start amassing huge chunks of SP they become more viable for recruiter corps who can train them up properly and teach them how to spec which would basically make your University utterly irrelevant. Most FPS groups like to train their own, only reason you serve a purpose currently is we dont want to wait for weeks-months to get a person in fighting shape before we mold them. This is the biggest reason why there shouldn't be a cap. This nonsense that having a cap forces you to choose how to spend your SP and "teaches" you how to play your role is utter nonsense. Good corps and good FPS players can do that they simply need people at a requisite level to make them viable first before they can assess their skill and train them. Synergy does a great job of this and its why they add great talent to their ranks but the supply is limited because there is a massive lag time to get players there. This would help create a recruiting boom of new players and veteran corps would actively start scouting for fresh talent. Add to this new player corps who come over from other games or simply are eager to knock the current Kings of the Hill of their perch actually have a shot at doing so. So yea go ahead and tell me its about ME wanting to no-life the game sounds like its more about you protecting your way of playing the game more than anything else, i simply seek to unleash the shackles placed on new players. Me on the other hand I have 15M SP That has me flush in 2 proto weapons and advanced weapon, a proto specialty and basic suit, a Logi LAV and all the core skills needed to make it all work. I dont login to hit my cap anymore cause I don't need it and instead play other games in between Dusting. I have all I need to make my character work for what I want to play. Every additional piece of SP is just more versatility but that's what my teammates are for so I don't have to be a swiss army knife of one. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
408
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:Again is everyone here fail to simply understand the basics of competitive FPS play. When i say competitive i dont mean MLG i just mean the very nature of who FPS players generally are.
This isn't WoW with Guns people don't play FPS to toil around and develop and grow a character they play it to shoot people in the face and to do it at the highest levels whatever that may be in game. They generally want to do it in organized matches with their friends and they certainly don't want to be at a handicap due to a time factor.
Better matchmaking only works if you have a player count to support it, notice the increase in match instability last week or two. Because there arent enough players in the pool to find nearby connections to you so you have increasing ping rates.
Again you cannot max out a character and what does a max character even mean in this game, its certainly no more powerful then a character with 15M SP, its simply more versatile. Big difference.
You would want to restrict new players and think oh as long as they are safe from veterans they will continue to play at a leisurely pace and not worry about the difference between them and veteran players WRONG.
FPS players want to compete its the very nature of the genre to battle opponents in a game of guns and tactics. To do that they need SP if they want to fight where the vets live PC, FW and yes to a degree Pubs.
People don't get lost in the notion that matchmaking solves an issue of player imbalance that is a totally different argument, this is about removing the governor off of the accelerator so people can get to the most competitive parts of the game.
To deny this to players out of the ludicrous notion that it should take a long time to max a character is utter nonsense. Further more those that say that once a player reaches a max character they will no longer play, tacitly implies that the only content and reason for logging on is gaining SP to progress your character.
To say that this game shouldn't be about SP and by having more metagame and end game stuff that will allow people do something post cap and not feel the 24/7 need to grind implies that there should be more to this game then leveling (i agree) but to get to those arenas players need the requisite SP to compete.
This is not EVE where new players can after 2 weeks of training and skilling can get into massive fleet comps and begin to immediately wreck shop so that phiolosophy doesn't apply.
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Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
408
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:Again is everyone here purposely dense or fail to simply understand the basics of competitive FPS play. When i say competitive i dont mean MLG i just mean the very nature of who FPS players generally are.
This isn't WoW with Guns people don't play FPS to toil around and develop and grow a character they play it to shoot people in the face and to do it at the highest levels whatever that may be in game. They generally want to do it in organized matches with their friends and they certainly don't want to be at a handicap due to a time factor.
Better matchmaking only works if you have a player count to support it, notice the increase in match instability last week or two. Because there arent enough players in the pool to find nearby connections to you so you have increasing ping rates.
Again you cannot max out a character and what does a max character even mean in this game, its certainly no more powerful then a character with 15M SP, its simply more versatile. Big difference.
You would want to restrict new players and think oh as long as they are safe from veterans they will continue to play at a leisurely pace and not worry about the difference between them and veteran players WRONG.
FPS players want to compete its the very nature of the genre to battle opponents in a game of guns and tactics. To do that they need SP if they want to fight where the vets live PC, FW and yes to a degree Pubs.
People don't get lost in the notion that matchmaking solves an issue of player imbalance that is a totally different argument, this is about removing the governor off of the accelerator so people can get to the most competitive parts of the game.
To deny this to players out of the ludicrous notion that it should take a long time to max a character is utter nonsense. Further more those that say that once a player reaches a max character they will no longer play, tacitly implies that the only content and reason for logging on is gaining SP to progress your character.
To say that this game shouldn't be about SP and by having more metagame and end game stuff that will allow people do something post cap and not feel the 24/7 need to grind implies that there should be more to this game then leveling (i agree) but to get to those arenas players need the requisite SP to compete.
This is not EVE where new players can after 2 weeks of training and skilling can get into massive fleet comps and begin to immediately wreck shop so that phiolosophy doesn't apply.
/checkmate. GG You're thinking of those other shooters. Dust is an MMOFPS. Now, we don't yet have most of the MMO stuff, like PVE and the player backed economy for instance. We do have the skill tree though and the experience associated with it. Dust isn't a drop in at anytime and instantly be competitive with the long time vets kind of game. I think it's you that's confused. A matchmaker will solve the issue in the sense that new players will not be randomly pitted against vets. If you choose to play against vets, then expect to be outgunned at least until you reach the depth vs breadth point at around 10mil SP. Actually Im not, the game needs a base and in the end it is still viewed experienced and judged as a shooter. I know exactly what Dust is and in the end it doesnt matter what MMO you play PVP means getting to the highest levels as quickly as possible in order to compete in PVP. Dust is primarily PVP, PVE will bring in new players but they will be doing PVE stuff that will not help with the PVP stuff and in the end it is the PVP that has the influence on the New Eden Universe. So perhaps players can stop trying to make this game like EVE in an effort to save their precious SP advantage, and learn that grinding for 6 months or longer is not in the interest of any shooter game or any PVP for that matter. You may want that SP advanatage but good PVPer don't, I should know im one of them ive already crossed that proverbial finish line guess what its boring and no amount of PVE, Economy or any of the other MMO aspects will help to diminish that. This game at its core is PVP and in order to PVP you need to be able to compete. And good PVPers don't want to grind out for months just to do so nor should they be forced to simply because you want to maintain an edge over them. Let go of your crutch and get good or feel free to stop playing until PVE is introduced it sounds more like what you really would rather play. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
408
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:Buster Friently wrote:
Without being extra specially blunt. I disagree. It appears CCP disagrees, and Eve is an example of a product that doesn't meet your expectations but is doing fine. I think Dust will be fine. It's different.
How wrong you are. This is why in January they were ready to pull the trigger https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=483247#post483247What stopped it were players like yourself thinking the world would end because of it. The reality has proven that the CAp has done more harm than a noncap ever could, the weekly cap was welcomed over a non cap because of the fear that the separation would become too great between casual and hardcore at a time when everyone on a relative even keel. We told everyone that it doesnt matter because it the character can only progress so far. Power grinders grind only as far as they need to not to go and have every last bit of their characters maxxed. Some might but in the end it doesnt make a difference. What does matter however is the new player experience and their ability to rise up the ranks to get to the best parts of the game, a very real desire of FPS players of which this game is the larger target market. CCP doesn't disagree they simply got bad feedback and succumbed to hysteria over an imagined threat to the player divide at a time when they were getting hammered for not listening to our suggestions. Your thoughts on Dust are your opinion, I would argue different, player counts continue to decline and guess what the result is even poorer matchmaking and declining server stability an issue that may be acceptable in EVE but can't be tolerated in PVP especially in shooters where aim and hit detection is critical. You can try to play the CCP disagrees with you card all you want, it's a pretty desperate move but in the end doesn't change the facts that this game has had a decline in both new and veteran player activity for quite some time. This isn't PC land where people come back over and over this is console land and like you said things are different than YOU are used to. In the end it boils down to a few points that noone in your camp can counter. 1. This game isn't supposed to be about SP but becomes so because its needed to compete at the most competitive parts of the game, the areas that the shooter community want to play in. 2. If SP isn't content and the aim then the game must be the aim so in order to play in the game you need the SP to play it. 3. If no lifeing the game results in wider gaps that players can never catch then answer me why veteran player who have reached the 10-15M SP mark simply no longer care about hitting their caps (hint: because they have gotten their character to where they want, the rest would simply go into other stuff they dont need, but wouldnt mind having)---There is no Level 99 Dust Merc. 4. If people continously no life the game for SP and the game becomes about grinding SP then are you admiting that SP is the aim of this game and there is no other point to playing it? The community voted. Your ideas did not carry the day. In other words, you are in the minority. Btw, your stupid gg and checkmate makes me chuckle. The thread appears to be continuing. You still appear to be in the minority. Also, SP cap or no, isn't hurting player count. I've been on these forums since closed beta, and I don't think I've ever seen someone claim that they're leaving the game because of the soft SP cap. Player count is being hurt by bugs and boredom. Removing the SP would only make the game worse. <----my opinion. At least as valid as yours. |
Nikodaemon
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.07.29 03:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
keyser, best sp post yet, though I said it to another before reading yours... (sry) As a new player ( <3 months), sp gain is critical to maximizing my game vs the vets who pwn me 20-0. I hate the cap, and didn't even know it existed until I paid real cash to catch up with active augs, only to learn I'm cap'd. I quit 5 other PC games after discovering Dust514, years on some, only to find out I'm crippled by a cap.
This game rocks, and is so intense, compared to many other fps I've played. Because I have hours to spend each week, far more than the avg, AND have money to waste supporting ANOTHER online game, I feel hindered by the cap. You made so many good points I wish I could thank you (not my norm), but newbs like me don't get the chance ingame. There should be some balance or exception for newbies to be allowed to progress, or something along that line. A few threads state full max'ing of skills is the reason for the cap, but I only want to max my basic char (w/o an alt, btw). I would continue the fight after, since sp gain is only the incentive to make the field equal, not the goal.
If you have any pull, please help lift the sp cap, since my free time is about to end, I'm not a kid power-leveler, and I have cash to spend. You are beta level, so make ccp hear you, and I am just a newbie. You spoke with wisdom, let them hear that. Otherwise, during my (past-max sp) time I am forced to financially support other games, which I do regularly (ik, dumb me). I actually love dust514, and so enjoy playing it. I want it to succeed and grow, not wither on its own vines... |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
522
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Posted - 2013.07.31 22:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nikodaemon wrote:keyser, best sp post yet, though I said it to another before reading yours... (sry) As a new player ( <3 months), sp gain is critical to maximizing my game vs the vets who pwn me 20-0. I hate the cap, and didn't even know it existed until I paid real cash to catch up with active augs, only to learn I'm cap'd. I quit 5 other PC games after discovering Dust514, years on some, only to find out I'm crippled by a cap.
This game rocks, and is so intense, compared to many other fps I've played. Because I have hours to spend each week, far more than the avg, AND have money to waste supporting ANOTHER online game, I feel hindered by the cap. You made so many good points I wish I could thank you (not my norm), but newbs like me don't get the chance ingame. There should be some balance or exception for newbies to be allowed to progress, or something along that line. A few threads state full max'ing of skills is the reason for the cap, but I only want to max my basic char (w/o an alt, btw). I would continue the fight after, since sp gain is only the incentive to make the field equal, not the goal.
If you have any pull, please help lift the sp cap, since my free time is about to end, I'm not a kid power-leveler, and I have cash to spend. You are beta level, so make ccp hear you, and I am just a newbie. You spoke with wisdom, let them hear that. Otherwise, during my (past-max sp) time I am forced to financially support other games, which I do regularly (ik, dumb me). I actually love dust514, and so enjoy playing it. I want it to succeed and grow, not wither on its own vines...
Sorry dude ive given up the fight, CCP has the Cap for only one reason and thats to make money off of boosters. You cant get CCP to listen to a thing about the cap because along with them there is enough in the community who simply can't wrap their heads around the idea of wider not taller and continue to maintain that the Cap is somehow a good thing for players. I wish you the best as a new player but sadly this game will have a ebb and flow as newer playesr lag behind and have a 4-6 month period of growth before being truly viable against veteran corps meanwhile the veteran corps will leave out of boredom and lack of competition. If you monitor the War Room and PC in general you can see this waxing and waning occurng from the transition of closed beta tester to the later open beta testers and soon you will see a small crop of Commercial Release players rise up in September. Sadly this is where it will end because nobody wants to play this game as a new player that isnt already here willing to put up with the current progression system. |
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