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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
ReGnYuM
TeamPlayers EoN.
234
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Posted - 2013.06.18 15:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Apparently aiming in is not a priority!
CCP Mintchip wrote:This isn't what the original question of the topic asked, but I understand what you want. However, I can't give you anything specific in terms of dates because we want to make sure it's an actual fix which takes time. If I tell you something specific, and it doesn't happen - then it's just a lie. I don't want to lie.
Aiming fixes aren't coming in 1.2, but we're looking to get them out soon after (as in 1.3 or later). There will be gun balancing in 1.2 and we look forward to your feedback on that.
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep
It boggles my mind that you take weapon balance over aiming. Furthermore, how can you balance gungame, when the mechanics behind it are faulty. Does anyone else see a flaw here.
Unbelieveable CCP |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3875
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have no problem with MintChip, but I don't really see her purpose here other than paroting what we've been hearing for months
Do yourself a favor and don't take this game seriously. Burn a bowl or down a few brews, grab a scrambler pistol and melee mods for your heavy, and go troll some randoms. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
414
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Indeed, I posted the same concerns you have in that thread I was planning on sticking it out until 1.2 to see if things improved but now Im considering just uninstalling |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
771
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Apparently aiming in is not a priority! CCP Mintchip wrote:This isn't what the original question of the topic asked, but I understand what you want. However, I can't give you anything specific in terms of dates because we want to make sure it's an actual fix which takes time. If I tell you something specific, and it doesn't happen - then it's just a lie. I don't want to lie.
Aiming fixes aren't coming in 1.2, but we're looking to get them out soon after (as in 1.3 or later). There will be gun balancing in 1.2 and we look forward to your feedback on that.
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep It boggles my mind that you take weapon balance over aiming. Furthermore, how can you balance gungame, when the mechanics behind it are faulty. Does anyone else see a flaw here. Unbelieveable CCP
Yes, Im afraid to admit, but it is very odd. |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers EoN.
462
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
is it noodie magazine day already?
'balance' weapons that cant hit anything. fix aiming after said 'balance' has been implemented so hopefully when aiming is 'fixed' we can give accurate feedback on the 'balance'
makes perfect sense
|
Asher Night
187.
123
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Posted - 2013.06.18 15:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Apparently aiming in is not a priority! CCP Mintchip wrote:This isn't what the original question of the topic asked, but I understand what you want. However, I can't give you anything specific in terms of dates because we want to make sure it's an actual fix which takes time. If I tell you something specific, and it doesn't happen - then it's just a lie. I don't want to lie.
Aiming fixes aren't coming in 1.2, but we're looking to get them out soon after (as in 1.3 or later). There will be gun balancing in 1.2 and we look forward to your feedback on that.
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep It boggles my mind that you take weapon balance over aiming. Furthermore, how can you balance gungame, when the mechanics behind it are faulty. Does anyone else see a flaw here. Unbelieveable CCP
There's another topic on the front page where she mentions they are working on aiming issues "as we speak". I suppose we won't see aiming issues fixed in the next patch... but soon. I wouldn't imagine it would take this long to get any one issue fixed but I guess I'm wrong.
Seriously, aiming should have been the first priority. Whatever feedback we give regarding the weapons will end up bias towards an incorrect build. |
Knight SoIaire
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
835
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
This doesn't surprise me, hey atleast we got AUR items today for underpowered armour tanking Gallente, right? Right?
More surprised you joined TeamPlayers to be honest |
ReGnYuM
TeamPlayers EoN.
243
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I have no problem with MintChip, but I don't really see her purpose here other than paroting what we've been hearing for months Do yourself a favor and don't take this game seriously. Burn a bowl or down a few brews, grab a scrambler pistol and melee mods for your heavy, and go troll some randoms.
Way ahead of you bud |
Protocake JR
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
110
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Just when you think it can't get any worse...
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3877
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Knight SoIaire wrote:This doesn't surprise me, hey atleast we got AUR items today for underpowered armour tanking Gallente, right? Right? Lets not forget the Dropships that you can buy with actual cash. |
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soulreaper73
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
22
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Posted - 2013.06.18 15:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I have no problem with MintChip, but I don't really see her purpose here other than paroting what we've been hearing for months Do yourself a favor and don't take this game seriously. Burn a bowl or down a few brews, grab a scrambler pistol and melee mods for your heavy, and go troll some randoms.
you had me at burn a bowl or down a few brews |
Benari Kalidima
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
It's a priority, but people who work at balancing can't necessarily be put to work on coding and fixing the aiming issues. In other words, it's the same as an artist on the team not being able to code magically. |
ReGnYuM
TeamPlayers EoN.
247
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Benari Kalidima wrote:It's a priority, but people who work at balancing can't necessarily be put to work on coding and fixing the aiming issues. In other words, it's the same as an artist on the team not being able to code magically.
You seem to be new here.
Aiming in chromosome was actually good. Uprising was actually a regression of said aiming.
Its not like they have completely re-do aiming and start it from scratch. They have a solid foundation for aiming just build upon chromosome. |
Zatara Rought
TeamPlayers EoN.
230
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Benari Kalidima wrote:It's a priority, but people who work at balancing can't necessarily be put to work on coding and fixing the aiming issues. In other words, it's the same as an artist on the team not being able to code magically. You seem to be new here. Aiming in chromosome was actually good. Uprising was actually a regression of said aiming. Its not like they have completely re-do aiming and start it from scratch. They have a solid foundation for aiming just build upon chromosome.
Chromosome aiming...where have you gone!! The poor lazer took the worst beating though. It went from easy mode cept in close range to literally no one using it, I see more people using the plasma cannon |
Shadow heat
Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Actually the aiming is what is stopping me from enjoying this game, specially with the mouse. So yes, its a bit odd that fixing the aiming is not a priority. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3877
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote: I see more people using the plasma cannon That thing is nasty at holding choke points |
Severance Pay
Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy
390
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pssshaw. WRONG WRONG WRONG! First I want my gun to actually shoot, and I want the game to detect a hit on my enemy. After that, we can talk about your precious aiming and gun balancing. Pffft. |
Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
101
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Benari Kalidima wrote:It's a priority, but people who work at balancing can't necessarily be put to work on coding and fixing the aiming issues. In other words, it's the same as an artist on the team not being able to code magically. You seem to be new here. Aiming in chromosome was actually good. Uprising was actually a regression of said aiming. Its not like they have completely re-do aiming and start it from scratch. They have a solid foundation for aiming just build upon chromosome. Chromosome aiming...where have you gone!! The poor lazer took the worst beating though. It went from easy mode cept in close range to literally no one using it, I see more people using the plasma cannon
wait the LR is still in? Already thought they erased it so nobody skills in them by accident. lol
|
DeadlyAztec11
Strong-Arm
510
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
I like the aiming |
Deluxe Edition
TeamPlayers EoN.
410
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
IMHO dust won't be out of "launch beta" for another year or so. I see CCP releasing the PS4 version of dust 6 months - a year after the PS4 launch and making that the true launch accompanied by actual advertising. I think CCP isn't to concerned with Dust's current state and declining player count because the know they will have a second chance to reintroduce the game (much like squarenix did with Final Fantasy) with a PS4 release that is a lot easier to code for, and by that time they should have the mechanics of planetary conquest at a point where the game mode is meaningful to the rank and file member and to the corp as a whole. |
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SERPENT-Adamapple
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Apparently aiming in is not a priority! CCP Mintchip wrote:This isn't what the original question of the topic asked, but I understand what you want. However, I can't give you anything specific in terms of dates because we want to make sure it's an actual fix which takes time. If I tell you something specific, and it doesn't happen - then it's just a lie. I don't want to lie.
Aiming fixes aren't coming in 1.2, but we're looking to get them out soon after (as in 1.3 or later). There will be gun balancing in 1.2 and we look forward to your feedback on that.
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep It boggles my mind that you take weapon balance over aiming. Furthermore, how can you balance gungame, when the mechanics behind it are faulty. Does anyone else see a flaw here. Unbelieveable CCP
Oh shut up. Did you ever think that there trying to add in all the racial weapons so they can balance them all with range, damage, AND aiming. One of the biggest issue's right now is lack of content, and your complaining about aiming? At least mintchip let us know that they see there is an issue with aiming, and It's on their to do list.
Give it a rest people. That is most likely the reason why CCP hardly gives the community any info on what's to come, because we whined up bitching about it anyway. |
psyanyde
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
SERPENT-Adamapple wrote:
Oh shut up. Did you ever think that there trying to add in all the racial weapons so they can balance them all with range, damage, AND aiming. One of the biggest issue's right now is lack of content, and your complaining about aiming? At least mintchip let us know that they see there is an issue with aiming, and It's on their to do list.
Give it a rest people. That is most likely the reason why CCP hardly gives the community any info on what's to come, because we whined up bitching about it anyway.
The biggest problem with Dust is aiming/hit detection.
No need to add fluff when core mechanics are ******.
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Wakko03
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
197
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
It is a sad thing.
Kinda like telling the first hen they didn't come from an egg, but are expected to produce some to make more chickens.
I remember when I used to hitch my horse up behind the wagon, yes in front of it is how it generally works but I am a forward thinker.
All I read from CCP is delaying tactics.... it will get better, we are working on it, don't use voice chat in PC battles, etc.
So since CCP seems not to be taking this seriously anymore,
Ladles and Jellyspoons,
I come before you, to stand behind you; To talk to you about something I know nothing about.
Next Thursday the day after Friday, there will be a Ladies meeting for Men only.
Admission is free, you can pay at the door. We'll give you a seat, enjoy the floor. |
ISuperstar
DIOS X. II
97
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Death is near |
ReGnYuM
TeamPlayers EoN.
253
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
SERPENT-Adamapple wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Apparently aiming in is not a priority! CCP Mintchip wrote:This isn't what the original question of the topic asked, but I understand what you want. However, I can't give you anything specific in terms of dates because we want to make sure it's an actual fix which takes time. If I tell you something specific, and it doesn't happen - then it's just a lie. I don't want to lie.
Aiming fixes aren't coming in 1.2, but we're looking to get them out soon after (as in 1.3 or later). There will be gun balancing in 1.2 and we look forward to your feedback on that.
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep It boggles my mind that you take weapon balance over aiming. Furthermore, how can you balance gungame, when the mechanics behind it are faulty. Does anyone else see a flaw here. Unbelieveable CCP Oh shut up. Did you ever think that there trying to add in all the racial weapons so they can balance them all with range, damage, AND aiming. One of the biggest issue's right now is lack of content, and your complaining about aiming? At least mintchip let us know that they see there is an issue with aiming, and It's on their to do list. Give it a rest people. That is most likely the reason why CCP hardly gives the community any info on what's to come, because we whined up bitching about it anyway.
No one of the biggest issues is the core mechanics. I don't think any player in this game right now is saying, " I have too much SP right now and nothing to spend it on"
Why is aiming so important you ask?
Because like any other core mechanic, it is the foundation of the game. And like any foundation, if it is not built correctly your building will come crumbling down. Just like what we're seeing on the forums right now.
You need great core mechanics to allow this extra content to sit on.
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Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
504
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 15:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
SERPENT-Adamapple wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Apparently aiming in is not a priority! CCP Mintchip wrote:This isn't what the original question of the topic asked, but I understand what you want. However, I can't give you anything specific in terms of dates because we want to make sure it's an actual fix which takes time. If I tell you something specific, and it doesn't happen - then it's just a lie. I don't want to lie.
Aiming fixes aren't coming in 1.2, but we're looking to get them out soon after (as in 1.3 or later). There will be gun balancing in 1.2 and we look forward to your feedback on that.
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep It boggles my mind that you take weapon balance over aiming. Furthermore, how can you balance gungame, when the mechanics behind it are faulty. Does anyone else see a flaw here. Unbelieveable CCP Oh shut up. Did you ever think that there trying to add in all the racial weapons so they can balance them all with range, damage, AND aiming. One of the biggest issue's right now is lack of content, and your complaining about aiming? At least mintchip let us know that they see there is an issue with aiming, and It's on their to do list. Give it a rest people. That is most likely the reason why CCP hardly gives the community any info on what's to come, because we whined up bitching about it anyway.
Yes, you mongoloid, in an FPS we are complaining about aiming. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
373
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I have no problem with MintChip, but I don't really see her purpose here other than paroting what we've been hearing for months Do yourself a favor and don't take this game seriously. Burn a bowl or down a few brews, grab a scrambler pistol and melee mods for your heavy, and go troll some randoms.
Speaking of Melee mods for a Heavy, I laughed my ass off the other night.
I beat a heavy to death from 100% health, he wasn't AFK, he just wasn't doing anything aside from backpedalling.
I stayed right on him for all 6-7 blows it took to kill him, laughed uncontrollably after the +50. |
Dustin Peril
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Apparently aiming in is not a priority! CCP Mintchip wrote:This isn't what the original question of the topic asked, but I understand what you want. However, I can't give you anything specific in terms of dates because we want to make sure it's an actual fix which takes time. If I tell you something specific, and it doesn't happen - then it's just a lie. I don't want to lie.
Aiming fixes aren't coming in 1.2, but we're looking to get them out soon after (as in 1.3 or later). There will be gun balancing in 1.2 and we look forward to your feedback on that.
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep It boggles my mind that you take weapon balance over aiming. Furthermore, how can you balance gungame, when the mechanics behind it are faulty. Does anyone else see a flaw here. Unbelieveable CCP
Wow im baffled,
Mintchip was actually hired to break bad news, as we all know hearing it from a woman is easier to handle.
Well so called woman |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3878
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Abron Garr wrote:Yes, you mongoloid, in an FPS we are complaining about aiming. Why would you need to aim when you can kill super soldiers in power armor with a 20mph love tap from your gokart?
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Abron Garr
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
504
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Abron Garr wrote:Yes, you mongoloid, in an FPS we are complaining about aiming. Why would you need to aim when you can kill super soldiers in power armor with a 20mph love tap from your gokart?
True. GTA: New Eden shows just how "deep" the FPS experience in Dust really is. |
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Majaestu Dreamstone
Forsaken Immortals
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Apparently aiming in is not a priority! CCP Mintchip wrote:This isn't what the original question of the topic asked, but I understand what you want. However, I can't give you anything specific in terms of dates because we want to make sure it's an actual fix which takes time. If I tell you something specific, and it doesn't happen - then it's just a lie. I don't want to lie.
Aiming fixes aren't coming in 1.2, but we're looking to get them out soon after (as in 1.3 or later). There will be gun balancing in 1.2 and we look forward to your feedback on that.
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep It boggles my mind that you take weapon balance over aiming. Furthermore, how can you balance gungame, when the mechanics behind it are faulty. Does anyone else see a flaw here. Unbelieveable CCP
unless you're operating at ages 2-7, this line of reasoning is completely flawed. release order does not imply priority order. your inability to consider more than one variable is at a 5-8 month old child's level. Fact. |
Kiro Justice
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
111
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
I...That's really not good. |
ReGnYuM
TeamPlayers EoN.
253
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Majaestu Dreamstone wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Apparently aiming in is not a priority! CCP Mintchip wrote:This isn't what the original question of the topic asked, but I understand what you want. However, I can't give you anything specific in terms of dates because we want to make sure it's an actual fix which takes time. If I tell you something specific, and it doesn't happen - then it's just a lie. I don't want to lie.
Aiming fixes aren't coming in 1.2, but we're looking to get them out soon after (as in 1.3 or later). There will be gun balancing in 1.2 and we look forward to your feedback on that.
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep It boggles my mind that you take weapon balance over aiming. Furthermore, how can you balance gungame, when the mechanics behind it are faulty. Does anyone else see a flaw here. Unbelieveable CCP unless you're operating at ages 2-7, this line of reasoning is completely flawed. release order does not imply priority order. your inability to consider more than one variable is at a 5-8 month old child's level. Fact.
Nice alt bud you afraid to post on your main / |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
620
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Yea I'm not really sure what they are trying to do here with this. I understood the need for HMG rebalance because it was obvious, and TAC of course needed an RoF nerf to keep it unexploitable.
I wouldn't touch anything else until aiming is fixed though. Even lag I would consider a priority AFTER aiming. Everything else only exists as a barrier to aiming. If you can't aim at all in the first place, what good is removing the barrier? |
Vin Mora
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
14
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Serious question, what aiming problems are people having?
The only time I have hit detection problems are with trying to destroy equipment on the field. |
Kiro Justice
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
111
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote:Serious question, what aiming problems are people having?
The only time I have hit detection problems are with trying to destroy equipment on the field.
Me too actually. |
Knight SoIaire
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
837
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Knight SoIaire wrote:This doesn't surprise me, hey atleast we got AUR items today for underpowered armour tanking Gallente, right? Right? Lets not forget the Dropships that you can buy with actual cash.
Everytime I shoot one of them down with my Rail tank, I cant help but feel like a complete *******.
Some guy kept calling them in, and trying to take me out with his squad inside, I died a little inside everytime I shot one down. |
hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
17
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
If it was the other way around you would say: "They took gun aiming over gun balance? Unbelievable CCP". Look on the bright side of life for once... |
Knight SoIaire
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
837
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote:Serious question, what aiming problems are people having?
The only time I have hit detection problems are with trying to destroy equipment on the field.
Try a shotgun, Flaylock on a slanted surface, Mass Driver litterally anywhere, and Nova Knifes. These are the weapons in which bad hit detection is a problem. Also, try out an 80GJ Blaster, thing damn near misses every shot even though you're pointing right at the enemy. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2249
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
lolCCP
This is how you know they don't know what they're doing. This is not EVE. We don't point and click on boxes on the screen. If the core mechanic of a FPS is broken, then your game is essentially broken.
Aiming... you know, it's only the most important part of a FPS. But hey, at least now we have "balanced" weapons to spray all over with |
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Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1915
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Speed and strafing got watered down, aiming seems to be under the hammer too. Why don't we just cut to the chase and convert combat to an ATB system since nobody seems to want Dust to be a FPS. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
422
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:49:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Speed and strafing got watered down, aiming seems to be under the hammer too. Why don't we just cut to the chase and convert combat to an ATB system since nobody seems to want Dust to be a FPS.
I think ATB would be to fast paced for them, better make it completely old school turn based |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1915
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Cosgar wrote:Speed and strafing got watered down, aiming seems to be under the hammer too. Why don't we just cut to the chase and convert combat to an ATB system since nobody seems to want Dust to be a FPS. I think ATB would be to fast paced for them, better make it completely old school turn based The sad part about this is you're absolutely right |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
1981
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
The reason aiming isn't being fixed in 1.2 is because it's a bigger issue to tackle than can be finished in that time. It's not that it's "not a priority" which is not something that has ever been said. |
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CCP Mintchip
C C P C C P Alliance
305
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
Locking this topic as redundant and out of context, please see: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88081 for the full discussion!
CCP Mintchip // Twitter - @CCP_Mintchip Dust 514 Community Rep |
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