DUST Search - Devs - Are you even looking at the major HAV imbalance???

Harpyja wrote:

Says it in the title.

All over the forums.

Armor tankers don't want to lose their king-of-the-hill position.

Devs, just a few responses from you on these topics so that we know that it's being looked at. This imbalance is starting to be as problematic as the Tactical AR problem (for me this is bigger than the TAR problem and infantry shield/armor combined).

If you're not responding to our calls of help, then do you really think armor vs shield HAVs is balanced?

Because, HELLO! Wake up! This is reality:

Armor tanker - "Oh, a shield tank. Time for breakfast."
Shield tanker - "S***. What do I do? Recall or run for the redline like a p***y?"

-or-

Infantry AV - "Armor tank, everyone, pull out the swarms."
Armor tanker - "Meh. I'll use my insane speed to go hide, then my armor rep will rep all my armor in one cycle if needed."

Infantry squads- "Shield tank! It's murdering us!"
Intantry AV - "Don't worry. I got my proto assault forge. You guys focus on infantry, I got this by myself."
Shield tanker - "Oh f*** me. I can't hide, not enough time to recall! I need he-----"

Disclaimer: this might be only slightly exaggerated, but this is what any proper shield tanker thinks when they come across an equally experienced armor tanker or AV.

For example: My Falchion had its fit specifically designed to take out an armor tank. A combination to fit highest resists, highest shield, best booster, and a proto accelerated missile launcher. The armor tank was a Madrugar with a proto railgun. Each shot of his railgun took out a quarter of my shields, while my volleys barely scratched him. He pulled 3 shots on me, I pulled 3 on him as well before I realized I was going to lose so I retreated back into cover, then booked it for my MCC. This is the exact kind of "Oh s***" moment described as above.

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Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 118	Posted - 2013.06.14 03:18:00 - [1] - Quote Says it in the title. All over the forums. Armor tankers don't want to lose their king-of-the-hill position. Devs, just a few responses from you on these topics so that we know that it's being looked at. This imbalance is starting to be as problematic as the Tactical AR problem (for me this is bigger than the TAR problem and infantry shield/armor combined). If you're not responding to our calls of help, then do you really think armor vs shield HAVs is balanced? Because, HELLO! Wake up! This is reality: Armor tanker - "Oh, a shield tank. Time for breakfast." Shield tanker - "S*. What do I do? Recall or run for the redline like a py?" -or- Infantry AV - "Armor tank, everyone, pull out the swarms." Armor tanker - "Meh. I'll use my insane speed to go hide, then my armor rep will rep all my armor in one cycle if needed." Infantry squads- "Shield tank! It's murdering us!" Intantry AV - "Don't worry. I got my proto assault forge. You guys focus on infantry, I got this by myself." Shield tanker - "Oh f** me. I can't hide, not enough time to recall! I need he-----" Disclaimer: this might be only slightly exaggerated, but this is what any proper shield tanker thinks when they come across an equally experienced armor tanker or AV. For example: My Falchion had its fit specifically designed to take out an armor tank. A combination to fit highest resists, highest shield, best booster, and a proto accelerated missile launcher. The armor tank was a Madrugar with a proto railgun. Each shot of his railgun took out a quarter of my shields, while my volleys barely scratched him. He pulled 3 shots on me, I pulled 3 on him as well before I realized I was going to lose so I retreated back into cover, then booked it for my MCC. This is the exact kind of "Oh s***" moment described as above.
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 299	Posted - 2013.06.14 03:19:00 - [2] - Quote so
Templar Renegade119 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 70	Posted - 2013.06.14 03:21:00 - [3] - Quote just give up. they obviously don't care. and i'm being 100% serious. Let them wait til their player base has left to find out the hard way.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 118	Posted - 2013.06.14 03:24:00 - [4] - Quote Templar Renegade119 wrote: just give up. they obviously don't care. and i'm being 100% serious. Let them wait til their player base has left to find out the hard way. At this point I honestly just want jets to come out. Every game that has vehicles in it I always find myself taking to the sky and raining death from above. Dropships are mere troop transports which is why I didn't go into them. But I believe that all my skills into shield HAVs will be just as useful for fitting a Caldari jet, aside from any SP needed for any jet operation skill.
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 324	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:06:00 - [5] - Quote yea, I'm just hoping to get into the ffxiv beta, it seems like a more complete game right now.
Eurydice Itzhak Militaires Sans Jeux 71	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:10:00 - [6] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: yea, I'm just hoping to get into the ffxiv beta, it seems like a more complete game right now. I'm in the beta but I haven't been keeping up with the road map. The last few builds have been pretty boring. I loved FFXI and WoW and this game is really... neither. On topic. Ten threads a day until we got recognized. Even if its to tell us to **** off. At least that way we could know not to play dust anymore.
Exergonic TeamPlayers EoN. 62	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:15:00 - [7] - Quote You're doing it all wrong... 1. you aren't an armor tank don't rush a tank... Flank it...Rails have low turret turn speed get behind him and get 2 Volleys before he can even look at you 2. Enforcers are ranged glass cannons why would you be in a CQ fight 3. If you just run a Gunnlogi not only are you faster but they cost way less isk if you lose it BTW after you add the first plate to an armor tank you move slower then a Gunnlogi PS I'm a shield tanker just to clear that up =)
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 324	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:16:00 - [8] - Quote this is the one where they release most if not everything for testing. you know, to get feedback and make adjustments based on that feedback, not **ing office parties(CCP: Sorry mass driver users, I got killed in an office party and got butthurt, so I'm going to nerfbat you square in the ** while boosting TAC AR's to god tier for a month, and by the way, the thing we've been hyping like crazy? it's terribly laggy, and there's less than half of what we said there would be available.) at least I'm not bitter.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 587	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:31:00 - [9] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Says it in the title. All over the forums. Armor tankers don't want to lose their king-of-the-hill position. Devs, just a few responses from you on these topics so that we know that it's being looked at. This imbalance is starting to be as problematic as the Tactical AR problem (for me this is bigger than the TAR problem and infantry shield/armor combined). If you're not responding to our calls of help, then do you really think armor vs shield HAVs is balanced? Because, HELLO! Wake up! This is reality: Armor tanker - "Oh, a shield tank. Time for breakfast." Shield tanker - "S*. What do I do? Recall or run for the redline like a py?" -or- Infantry AV - "Armor tank, everyone, pull out the swarms." Armor tanker - "Meh. I'll use my insane speed to go hide, then my armor rep will rep all my armor in one cycle if needed." Infantry squads- "Shield tank! It's murdering us!" Intantry AV - "Don't worry. I got my proto assault forge. You guys focus on infantry, I got this by myself." Shield tanker - "Oh f** me. I can't hide, not enough time to recall! I need he-----" Disclaimer: this might be only slightly exaggerated, but this is what any proper shield tanker thinks when they come across an equally experienced armor tanker or AV. For example: My Falchion had its fit specifically designed to take out an armor tank. A combination to fit highest resists, highest shield, best booster, and a proto accelerated missile launcher. The armor tank was a Madrugar with a proto railgun. Each shot of his railgun took out a quarter of my shields, while my volleys barely scratched him. He pulled 3 shots on me, I pulled 3 on him as well before I realized I was going to lose so I retreated back into cover, then booked it for my MCC. This is the exact kind of "Oh s***" moment described as above. Your wrong on one thing here Proto swarms and proto packed AV grenades F armor tanks up. Armor tanks are 3 shot by proto swarms. pulling 4.5k+ damage on a volley. But I agree there is a imbalance on shield vs armor. It needs to be worked on and they need to be careful though. I run armor currently and I can turn on any shield tank like nothing.
Templar Renegade119 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:33:00 - [10] - Quote Exergonic wrote: You're doing it all wrong... 1. you aren't an armor tank don't rush a tank... Flank it...Rails have low turret turn speed get behind him and get 2 Volleys before he can even look at you 2. Enforcers are ranged glass cannons why would you be in a CQ fight 3. If you just run a Gunnlogi not only are you faster but they cost way less isk if you lose it BTW after you add the first plate to an armor tank you move slower then a Gunnlogi PS I'm a shield tanker just to clear that up =) my armor tank out speeds any BS shield tank. using heaviest plate. Fact is galante engines r better than caldari. then u add in the proto nitrous i have. with no disadvantage.

Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 122	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:34:00 - [11] - Quote Exergonic wrote: You're doing it all wrong... 1. you aren't an armor tank don't rush a tank... Flank it...Rails have low turret turn speed get behind him and get 2 Volleys before he can even look at you 2. Enforcers are ranged glass cannons why would you be in a CQ fight 3. If you just run a Gunnlogi not only are you faster but they cost way less isk if you lose it BTW after you add the first plate to an armor tank you move slower then a Gunnlogi PS I'm a shield tanker just to clear that up =) 1. Blasters turn fast, so flanking won't exactly work. Armor HAVs can outrun shield to turn the flank against the shield tank. 2. It was a mid-range engagement, and I got the first volley before be aimed his turret at me. I'm smart enough not to charge at any tank unless it's militia. 3. True, but Falchion grants extra damage. Either through hull bonus for missiles or the extra low slot for a railgun damage mod. And I only call in Falchions mainly for AV duty using the correct turret and during matches where my team is pubstomping the other team. BTW, armor tanks can fit nitrous boosters to go faster than shield tanks. PS, I find death taxiing with the Charybdis more fun because it's fun and I have not lost a single one to destruction; rather I get shot out of it, mostly by blaster turrets that get headshots on me, or I'm lucky enough to get myself stuck in enemy territory.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 341	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:36:00 - [12] - Quote If you calculate the DPS on the Large Missile Turrets versus Blasters or Railguns, it is to be perfectly honest utter garbage, Large Missile Turrets sacrifice a disgusting amount of DPS for the splash radius. In my opinion the only worthwhile Large Missile Turret is the Fragmentation series for anti-infantry usage.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1909	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:36:00 - [13] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Templar Renegade119 wrote: just give up. they obviously don't care. and i'm being 100% serious. Let them wait til their player base has left to find out the hard way. At this point I honestly just want jets to come out. Every game that has vehicles in it I always find myself taking to the sky and raining death from above. Dropships are mere troop transports which is why I didn't go into them. But I believe that all my skills into shield HAVs will be just as useful for fitting a Caldari jet, aside from any SP needed for any jet operation skill. Oh **** yeah. That's my go-to asset right there. As soon as those come out, only way I'm ever coming down is to do MTACs or cloaker-Scout.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1909	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:37:00 - [14] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: If you calculate the DPS on the Large Missile Turrets versus Blasters or Railguns, it is to be perfectly honest utter garbage, Large Missile Turrets sacrifice a disgusting amount of DPS for the splash radius. The sad thing is that I stopped using my Madrugar in early Chromosome because I'd just get one-volleyed by shield-missile tanks. Large Missile turrets got nerfed way too hard.
Cy Clone1 Ill Omens EoN. 19	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:39:00 - [15] - Quote Exergonic wrote: You're doing it all wrong... 1. you aren't an armor tank don't rush a tank... Flank it...Rails have low turret turn speed get behind him and get 2 Volleys before he can even look at you 2. Enforcers are ranged glass cannons why would you be in a CQ fight 3. If you just run a Gunnlogi not only are you faster but they cost way less isk if you lose it BTW after you add the first plate to an armor tank you move slower then a Gunnlogi PS I'm a shield tanker just to clear that up =) I don't think the tanks are overly unbalanced, but gunlogis are not faster, they actually have less acceleration as well as top speed. and unless you run large plates you are not that slow.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 122	Posted - 2013.06.14 04:42:00 - [16] - Quote Cy Clone1 wrote: Exergonic wrote: You're doing it all wrong... 1. you aren't an armor tank don't rush a tank... Flank it...Rails have low turret turn speed get behind him and get 2 Volleys before he can even look at you 2. Enforcers are ranged glass cannons why would you be in a CQ fight 3. If you just run a Gunnlogi not only are you faster but they cost way less isk if you lose it BTW after you add the first plate to an armor tank you move slower then a Gunnlogi PS I'm a shield tanker just to clear that up =) I don't think the tanks are overly unbalanced, but gunlogis are not faster, they actually have less acceleration as well as top speed. and unless you run large plates you are not that slow. He was comparing to the Falchion. But they are unbalanced enough to have a clear favorite.
Mary Sedillo BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 119	Posted - 2013.06.14 09:12:00 - [17] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Says it in the title. All over the forums. Armor tankers don't want to lose their king-of-the-hill position. Devs, just a few responses from you on these topics so that we know that it's being looked at. This imbalance is starting to be as problematic as the Tactical AR problem (for me this is bigger than the TAR problem and infantry shield/armor combined). If you're not responding to our calls of help, then do you really think armor vs shield HAVs is balanced? Because, HELLO! Wake up! This is reality: Armor tanker - "Oh, a shield tank. Time for breakfast." Shield tanker - "S*. What do I do? Recall or run for the redline like a py?" -or- Infantry AV - "Armor tank, everyone, pull out the swarms." Armor tanker - "Meh. I'll use my insane speed to go hide, then my armor rep will rep all my armor in one cycle if needed." Infantry squads- "Shield tank! It's murdering us!" Intantry AV - "Don't worry. I got my proto assault forge. You guys focus on infantry, I got this by myself." Shield tanker - "Oh f** me. I can't hide, not enough time to recall! I need he-----" Disclaimer: this might be only slightly exaggerated, but this is what any proper shield tanker thinks when they come across an equally experienced armor tanker or AV. For example: My Falchion had its fit specifically designed to take out an armor tank. A combination to fit highest resists, highest shield, best booster, and a proto accelerated missile launcher. The armor tank was a Madrugar with a proto railgun. Each shot of his railgun took out a quarter of my shields, while my volleys barely scratched him. He pulled 3 shots on me, I pulled 3 on him as well before I realized I was going to lose so I retreated back into cover, then booked it for my MCC. This is the exact kind of "Oh s***" moment described as above. A decently fit shield tank is beast against infantry due to the high explosive AVs which are so common. Of COURSE shields are weak to forges and rails. That is the counter to SHIELD. I think they need to give some sort of low slot speed booster for vehicles to let shield tankers move about quicker.
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 122	Posted - 2013.06.14 09:16:00 - [18] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: I think they need to give some sort of low slot speed booster for vehicles to let shield tankers move about quicker. Torque Turbines give increased torque and speed, and fit in the low slots.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 944	Posted - 2013.06.14 09:21:00 - [19] - Quote Explosive weaponry (swarm launchers, which are very common) do 80% more damage to armour than they do to shield. I have never had problems dispatching an armour HAV with a swarm launcher.


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