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How hard is it to tweak stats?

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Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1553	Posted - 2013.06.13 14:35:00 - [1] - Quote Serious question for CCP or anyone else in a similar line of work. How hard is it to tweak stats on weapons/modules? Seems to me like devs could balance the game with a simple series of rapid-fire stat changes. Example: The entire community sees plasma cannons are UP The damage is increased, and the devs watch for the reaction Oops! Now they seem OP vs infantry! Next week, the stats are tweaked again Repeat with everything until everything is balanced. Might be chaotic for a while, but it could be a quick fix I honestly don't understand where the trouble is, unless the difficulty is actually in releasing the update, rather than changing a few values.
Rynoceros One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 125	Posted - 2013.06.13 15:00:00 - [2] - Quote Judging by their reaction time compared to player dissatisfaction, it must be difficult as ****.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 618	Posted - 2013.06.13 15:04:00 - [3] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Judging by their reaction time compared to player dissatisfaction, it must be difficult as ****. yea because most players that would notice would reply within 24hours of the change...faster if it is report to the players. btw stop nerfing the LAV ramming damage. its getting to low, dragging people 50m+ is a tad insane for full speed hits.
oso tiburon The Generals EoN. 24	Posted - 2013.06.13 15:04:00 - [4] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Serious question for CCP or anyone else in a similar line of work. How hard is it to tweak stats on weapons/modules? Seems to me like devs could balance the game with a simple series of rapid-fire stat changes. Example: The entire community sees plasma cannons are UP The damage is increased, and the devs watch for the reaction Oops! Now they seem OP vs infantry! Next week, the stats are tweaked again Repeat with everything until everything is balanced. Might be chaotic for a while, but it could be a quick fix I honestly don't understand where the trouble is, unless the difficulty is actually in releasing the update, rather than changing a few values. download a copy of the ur3 engine and go play with stats
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 81	Posted - 2013.06.13 15:13:00 - [5] - Quote ME3 multiplayer did weekly changes - that was a PvE game though and I dont know how big the team was that did balancing. They did have a stickied thread though just with the changes and it was done like clockwork.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1553	Posted - 2013.06.13 15:15:00 - [6] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Judging by their reaction time compared to player dissatisfaction, it must be difficult as ****. I think it'd be better to have more people want to play because weapons will be balanced at the cost of some QQers that want to be the best at everything.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 692	Posted - 2013.06.13 15:36:00 - [7] - Quote ladwar wrote: Rynoceros wrote: Judging by their reaction time compared to player dissatisfaction, it must be difficult as ****. yea because most players that would notice would reply within 24hours of the change...faster if it is report to the players. btw stop nerfing the LAV ramming damage. its getting to low, dragging people 50m+ is a tad insane for full speed hits. CCP doesn't make nerfs based on what people say on the forums. They use their internal data from how the weapon is used. (mostly) This takes time, but provides a more balanced nerf. Where CCP screws up is when they let their own internal peanut gallery "decide" something is OP without actually using Tranquility data as the arbiter - see the MD.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 859	Posted - 2013.06.13 16:11:00 - [8] - Quote How hard is it? Not very. How hard is it to please everyone? Impossible.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 525	Posted - 2013.06.13 16:24:00 - [9] - Quote The problem is its not always a server side statistic they have to change. If it is server side, then its easier, if it's client side then it needs more flitering through sony/QA people. With your plasma cannons example there are a number of systems that have to work together to make the gun work as intended, among them: -splash damage vs. hitbox detection (where is splash/direct damage registering?) -terrain mesh occlusion (do bumps in road prevent splash damage?) -target/impact draw distance (is my target where I think it is?) -impact draw accuracy (am I shooting where I think I am?) -client vs. server input (trigger timing) detection for charged weapon -projectile interception/occlusion by invisible map assets (does the plasma hit something along the way) -damage resistance detection -target tracking/aim assistance All of these are systems that work with and depend on each other. Weapon tweaking for a gun that shoots 1 round every 4-5 seconds is VERY different than something that sprays 1000 rpm.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 17	Posted - 2013.06.13 16:32:00 - [10] - Quote What I imagine is, is that it is as easy as typing in a few number into a statistics field. You want a std AR to be more powerful you hit backspace a few times in a stat field somewere and then you type in the new number you want the std AR to be set at. And if it is not this easy then the dust development team is really making things hard for themselves. I've played with a few game editors before, Farcry 3, Command and Conqure 3, and, as i understand it, these game editors are a lot like the "development tools" develpers create for themselves in order to more easily manipulate the game on a more overarching level, as opposed to coding every change. If CCP hasen'already created something like this, using unreal, in order to give themselves easy access to such things, then i am pretty sure that they are doing it wrong. Most likely, what is going on is that they are minning in game data and compairing this data to the data gathered right here in this forum (player game feedback) because they are not sure who has legitimate complaints and who is just whinning. While it may seem so simple to you and i, as far as what needs to be changed in this game and what does not, CCP, on the other hand, probably spends most of their time coding new game elements rather than actually putting in anywhere near as much game time as we do. So, while these things may seem obvious to you or I they may not be so to CCP. If this is the case, what CCP needs to do is to pick several members from this community (i.e. these forums) whom have a track record of giving sound assesments of this game (i.e. "liked by the comunity" - and we are not talking a popularity contest here either) and commit to taking advice from them, or hire someone with a proven trackrecord of success, where such things are concerned, from within the game development community, if such a person exists. anyway that is my take on things. Oh, and CCP, you should hire me, I am some what of a savant when it comes to math, and I pretty much play your game evey day, several hours a day. but since you guys have already banned my main character several times now for braking the "forum rules" I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that that is probably not going to happen. What? you guys (CCP) frustrate me sometimes. shrugs seriously I could quickly help you guys fix this game though. you should hire me. Anyway, you know where to reach me.

Cody Sietz The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 209	Posted - 2013.06.13 16:36:00 - [11] - Quote I think no matter how hard(or easy) it is, CCP won't want to act too quickly before fully testing out items and seeing how they should balance it. So if they tweak a item, its still gonna take awhile to figure out if its OP, UP or just right.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 193	Posted - 2013.06.13 16:52:00 - [12] - Quote Does anybody else remember that time they buffed HMG damage because so many people QQ over it, and that they did so overnight? Yeah, that's how difficult it is. They can change the stats on a whim, but just refuse to do so unless a threadnaut appears.
Cody Sietz The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 209	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:16:00 - [13] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Does anybody else remember that time they buffed HMG damage because so many people QQ over it, and that they did so overnight? Yeah, that's how difficult it is. They can change the stats on a whim, but just refuse to do so unless a threadnaut appears. They buffed all weapons by 10 percent and was about 7-10 days after release.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 193	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:28:00 - [14] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Does anybody else remember that time they buffed HMG damage because so many people QQ over it, and that they did so overnight? Yeah, that's how difficult it is. They can change the stats on a whim, but just refuse to do so unless a threadnaut appears. They buffed all weapons by 10 percent and was about 7-10 days after release. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=780868#post780868 Try knowing what youre talking about next time.
Cody Sietz The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 209	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:35:00 - [15] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Does anybody else remember that time they buffed HMG damage because so many people QQ over it, and that they did so overnight? Yeah, that's how difficult it is. They can change the stats on a whim, but just refuse to do so unless a threadnaut appears. They buffed all weapons by 10 percent and was about 7-10 days after release. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=780868#post780868 Try knowing what youre talking about next time. I do, the changes went into effect a few days later. I never said the heavy didn't get a buff, just that all weapons got a boost.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1569	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:37:00 - [16] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Does anybody else remember that time they buffed HMG damage because so many people QQ over it, and that they did so overnight? Yeah, that's how difficult it is. They can change the stats on a whim, but just refuse to do so unless a threadnaut appears. MD, HAV, and Lasers users got a threadnaut going and they're avoiding it like the plague...
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 193	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:39:00 - [17] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Does anybody else remember that time they buffed HMG damage because so many people QQ over it, and that they did so overnight? Yeah, that's how difficult it is. They can change the stats on a whim, but just refuse to do so unless a threadnaut appears. They buffed all weapons by 10 percent and was about 7-10 days after release. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=780868#post780868 Try knowing what youre talking about next time. I do, the changes went into effect a few days later. I never said the heavy didn't get a buff, just that all weapons got a boost. Riiiiiiiiight.
Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 120	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:41:00 - [18] - Quote quick tweaks usually lead to a lot of things being overlooked, and more tweaks come of it, rather than a longer testing, and thought through method
RECON BY FIRE Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 193	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:48:00 - [19] - Quote Cosgar wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Does anybody else remember that time they buffed HMG damage because so many people QQ over it, and that they did so overnight? Yeah, that's how difficult it is. They can change the stats on a whim, but just refuse to do so unless a threadnaut appears. MD, HAV, and Lasers users got a threadnaut going and they're avoiding it like the plague... I know, I don't know wtf happened there. I guess the amount of HMG users is that much greater than that of MD, HAV, and Laser that CCP actually catered to them and the latter crowd is so much smaller that they just don't care. But hell, we have told them from day 1 of Uprising that Caldari Logi and TAC AR are OP, and they just now somewhat nerfed the TAC a month later and haven't even discussed the Caldari Logi. So I dunno, Ive started just trying to hit cap and then not log on for the rest of the week because this game infuriates me so badly.


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