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Corpse Raider
P.O.N.A.G.S.
7
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Posted - 2013.06.11 03:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've seen a lot of qq threads about murder taxis (LLAVs) but no real suggestions on how to reasonably balance them. People ask for the nerf bat to be swung yet again, buffs to av that would make tanks too easy to kill, etc.
The solution proposed in this thread title hit me as being so obvious as to be overlooked. LAVs are open top vehicles, the crew can be sniped, shotgunned and I read of a nova knife driver kill somewhere on the forum, but apparently the occupants are immune to grenade damage.
The reason people use these vehicles as supercharged tanks is because even though they are open topped, they seem to confer immunity from the large explosions created by AV grenades. There is virtually no risk to the driver. Tank weakness is reduced maneuverability and speed. Infantry weakness is being squishy. LAV weakness is high susceptibility to AV grenades and swarms. LLAV has the hp of a tank and the maneuverability of an LAV and no real weakness.
Realism and balance could be added to this abused mechanic by applying a part of AV damage to the occupants. Obviously the vehicle would shield the occupants from much of the damage and with tanks they would offer full shielding from AV splash damage, but having an open top vehicle shielding the occupants fully seems ridiculous.
The precise implementation of this would need some number crunching, but it seems to me that this kind of approach would be the most fair and could lead to the best balance if implemented well. |
Esper Shadows
Savage Arms INC
25
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Posted - 2013.06.11 08:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nope, you can kill the driver in the LAV, that is one of the most frequent ways I lose my LLAV. My suit takes too many bullets and I die in the driver's seat.
There's a zillion threads on death taxis, and I have tried to put my comments into as many as I can. Go and read them.
The best solution is to have both a carrot and a stick. Give LAV drivers something useful to do to get WP aside from running a death taxi. Make LAV turrets more deadly, instead of almost useless as they are now. Make it harder to kill the gunner. Make it easier to rep stuff with a LLAV and give WP for repping tanks and installations, not just dropsuits. Give rewards to scouting and scanning with a SLAV.
Then put in some kind of death taxi nerf. QED. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
826
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Posted - 2013.06.11 09:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
I've been killed out of the driver seat by an AV grenade, when the LLAV was not destroyed. |
Godin Thekiller
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
141
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Posted - 2013.06.11 09:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's human error to why I'm able to run over people:
1: Stands in middle of open field or road
2: Doesn't use AV
3: even ehen uses AV, uses weak AV
4: When has AV nades, doesn't throw them at pilot.
Thoses are the reasons why I'm able to run everything over.
Peace, Godin  |
Karazantor
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2013.06.11 11:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:It's human error to why I'm able to run over people: 1: Stands in middle of open field or road 2: Doesn't use AV 3: even ehen uses AV, uses weak AV 4: When has AV nades, doesn't throw them at pilot. Thoses are the reasons why I'm able to run everything over. Peace, Godin
Good theory, and at times (not this build!) i've been lucky enough to take out drivers with AV grenades even while the vehicle survived.
In practice with uprising, see LAV coming, throw AV grenade, AV grenade bounces off LAV, LAV drives over me and keeps going.
90% of the time.
Get them at an angle or if they are stuck on a landmark and it seems to work beautifully, no idea what is going on with that frontal shot though. |
Corpse Raider
P.O.N.A.G.S.
8
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Posted - 2013.06.11 11:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
I've destroyed dozens of militia LAVs over the past couple of weeks. These are not a problem. The AV actually works on them.
The issue is logistic LAVs. Of all the many times I've throwm av grenades at LAVs not once has the pilot been injured by them. Pokey Dravon, are you sure it wasn't a locus grenade? Godin Thekiller are you sure that AV grenades damage the driver? The law of averages states that I should have hit the driver at some point. I try to hit the cockpit and have become fairly decent at getting AV grenades on target.
I run with AV grenades on every suit, the problem has become so bad, and not once has an AV grenade damaged the occupants of LAVs of any kind. When militia LAVs get destroyed and the driver bails just before then the driver gets hit by splash damage from the vehicle destruction, but I'm pretty sure that AV 'nades don't damage vehicle crew.
Esper Shadows. Read my first post again. I acknowledge the possibility of killing the vehicle drivers with regular weapons. That is not what this thread is about. I am talking about applying damage from AV grenades to the crew of open cockpit vehicles.
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Esper Shadows
Savage Arms INC
27
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Posted - 2013.06.11 11:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Karazantor wrote:
Good theory, and at times (not this build!) i've been lucky enough to take out drivers with AV grenades even while the vehicle survived.
In practice with uprising, see LAV coming, throw AV grenade, AV grenade bounces off LAV, LAV drives over me and keeps going.
90% of the time.
Get them at an angle or if they are stuck on a landmark and it seems to work beautifully, no idea what is going on with that frontal shot though.
Probably just lag. You got ran over before the server registered that you threw your grenade.
You probably already know this, but AV grenades will only take out militia LAVs or poorly fitted normal LAVs and only if they stay in range for long enough. Swarmers are the ultimate anti-LAV weapon. |
Karazantor
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2013.06.11 11:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Esper Shadows wrote:Karazantor wrote:
Good theory, and at times (not this build!) i've been lucky enough to take out drivers with AV grenades even while the vehicle survived.
In practice with uprising, see LAV coming, throw AV grenade, AV grenade bounces off LAV, LAV drives over me and keeps going.
90% of the time.
Get them at an angle or if they are stuck on a landmark and it seems to work beautifully, no idea what is going on with that frontal shot though.
Probably just lag. You got ran over before the server registered that you threw your grenade. You probably already know this, but AV grenades will only take out militia LAVs or poorly fitted normal LAVs and only if they stay in range for long enough. Swarmers are the ultimate anti-LAV weapon.
Definitely, an AV grenade front on is basically a 'last great act of defiance' measure.
My swarm launcher setup makes me feel all warm and fuzzy with those 90 WP explosions after watching some fool of a LAV driver desperately trying to outrun the swarms  |
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