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Mortedeamor wrote:

R F Gyro wrote:

Spkr4theDead wrote:

One proto assault scrub should not be able to solo a tank,

Why not?

Why should one player with one set of kit not be able to solo one player with a different set of kit? Don't come back with "its a tank" because that isn't a valid game-play argument. Also, don't say "because of ISK or SP", because I don't believe those are significant limiting factors for a large portion of the player base any more. Is there a valid argument gameplay argument for "if I spec into this I will be significantly better than if I spec into anything else"?

Also, remember I'm not saying one infantry player should be able to solo a HAV whenever they want. I'm saying a 3 man AV team should be able to kill a 3 man tank crew 50% of the time.

actually it makes perfect sense that a master av can solo any tank atm...think about it....if you run into a sntd suit in dust..your ina proto suit..they're gun game may even be a bit better...but its just more likely your gunna scrub em up....its called proto stomping beating the crap out of people with lesser gear. tanks have no gear above stnd...ive seen the so called adv havs..and me asa proto av ive quesynced witha friend and hit a adv hav with adv av.....the need a slight buff... once tankers are given they're proto's it will most likely take a combo of heavy av and light av to control the field....caldari proto hav would not be soloable by 1 proto swarm..2-3 man av teams....balance


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Charlotte O'Dell Molon Labe. League of Infamy 428	Posted - 2013.06.11 07:35:00 - [1] - Quote And of course, none of the AV guys actually read the whole thing; however, I did. Everything here is what would happen in a perfect world, but the biggest problem is that we hav basic vics vs proto AV. Spot on post, sir. Spot on.
Charlotte O'Dell Molon Labe. League of Infamy 430	Posted - 2013.06.11 17:39:00 - [2] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Webifiers. The ability to tackle tanks is the first step to balance. Webifire missiles or forge varients that do little or no damage but stop the vehicle for 1-3 seconds, webifier nades which stop them for 5-10 seconds. Then you can have your HP buff/AV nerf. We can't be adding that until we have ADV and PRO tanks with 8k and 11k HP, respectively.
Charlotte O'Dell Molon Labe. League of Infamy 438	Posted - 2013.06.11 23:25:00 - [3] - Quote Okay, call me crazy here, but what if we buffed tanks AND made parts of the map where a tank could have 10,000 DPS and 50,000 HP, but it wouldnt matter because it couldnt access that part of the battlefield. (inside buildings, underground, skyscrapers, narrow city streets). Let's say there are 5 points on a map- 2 are underground in tight passages where infantry dominate, 2 are above ground on open plains where infantry have no cover, and 1 is somehwere in between. Perhaps in a city with wide roads and accessible buildings, alleyways, 2nd stories where if a tank spots a grunt on the round, the grunt and all 15 of his friends next to him WILL die...unless those 15 were smart and got on top of the tank because of the accessibility of alleyways, indoor areas, etc. So to take that 5th objective would take tanks to lock it down once captured and infantry to protect the tanks, and tanks to make sure infantry dont take back that 5th point. I watched this trailor and it made so much perfect sense. This way, infantry don't get slaughtered unless they go in tank land, tanks don't get soloed by infantry, and tanks can have fun killing eachother in 5km maps all day with 10,000 HP, 2000DPS, etc... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_LlH2c5dyA Maybe it's a far off dream because every map would become so 3-dimensional and it would take a complete rework, but i think everyone would be happy if no side had any advantage in all situations. I mean, I'm sure the infantry would love more CQC inside where there are no lavs or tanks, and tanks love big open manus-peak like maps where they get to be tanks. Just a thought. yes, it's a tank buff, but it's a buff that doesn't effect infantry because if you choose, you will never have to fight a tank- ever!
Charlotte O'Dell Molon Labe. League of Infamy 457	Posted - 2013.06.12 17:49:00 - [4] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: One proto assault scrub should not be able to solo a tank, Why not? Why should one player with one set of kit not be able to solo one player with a different set of kit? Don't come back with "its a tank" because that isn't a valid game-play argument. Also, don't say "because of ISK or SP", because I don't believe those are significant limiting factors for a large portion of the player base any more. Is there a valid argument gameplay argument for "if I spec into this I will be significantly better than if I spec into anything else"? Also, remember I'm not saying one infantry player should be able to solo a HAV whenever they want. I'm saying a 3 man AV team should be able to kill a 3 man tank crew 50% of the time. None of you are thinking properly. The balance between AV vs TANKS is perfect, but we are missing the other parts of the tree. 3 std forges = gunlogi 1 9k = gunlogi 1 ishukone = gunlogi 1 gastun = gunlogi See, standard on standard, it's well balanced, but we're expected to defend against officer gear with standard weapons. Introduce adv, pro, and officer tanks and everything will be peachy keen until the QQ threads about it taking 3 ishukone assault forges to kill a proto tank start.
Charlotte O'Dell Molon Labe. League of Infamy 457	Posted - 2013.06.12 17:54:00 - [5] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: One proto assault scrub should not be able to solo a tank, Why not? Why should one player with one set of kit not be able to solo one player with a different set of kit? Don't come back with "its a tank" because that isn't a valid game-play argument. Also, don't say "because of ISK or SP", because I don't believe those are significant limiting factors for a large portion of the player base any more. Is there a valid argument gameplay argument for "if I spec into this I will be significantly better than if I spec into anything else"? Also, remember I'm not saying one infantry player should be able to solo a HAV whenever they want. I'm saying a 3 man AV team should be able to kill a 3 man tank crew 50% of the time. NO! A 3 man team of std forges should be able to kill a gunlogi 85% of the time. However, when you scale that up one level, it only takes one adv, or pro forge to solo a gunlogi, let alone officer forges. Vehicle balance is there, but we don't have the other side of the scale (ADV and PRO) tanks.
Charlotte O'Dell Molon Labe. League of Infamy 457	Posted - 2013.06.12 17:55:00 - [6] - Quote [I'm quoting this from another thread] Okay, call me crazy here, but what if we buffed tanks AND made parts of the map where a tank could have 10,000 DPS and 50,000 HP, but it wouldnt matter because it couldnt access that part of the battlefield. (inside buildings, underground, skyscrapers, narrow city streets). Let's say there are 5 points on a map- 2 are underground in tight passages where infantry dominate, 2 are above ground on open plains where infantry have no cover, and 1 is somehwere in between. Perhaps in a city with wide roads and accessible buildings, alleyways, 2nd stories where if a tank spots a grunt on the round, the grunt and all 15 of his friends next to him WILL die...unless those 15 were smart and got on top of the tank because of the accessibility of alleyways, indoor areas, etc. So to take that 5th objective would take tanks to lock it down once captured and infantry to protect the tanks, and tanks to make sure infantry dont take back that 5th point. I watched this trailor and it made so much perfect sense. This way, infantry don't get slaughtered unless they go in tank land, tanks don't get soloed by infantry, and tanks can have fun killing eachother in 5km maps all day with 10,000 HP, 2000DPS, etc... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_LlH2c5dyA Maybe it's a far off dream because every map would become so 3-dimensional and it would take a complete rework, but i think everyone would be happy if no side had any advantage in all situations. I mean, I'm sure the infantry would love more CQC inside where there are no lavs or tanks, and tanks love big open manus-peak like maps where they get to be tanks. Just a thought. yes, it's a tank buff, but it's a buff that doesn't effect infantry because if you choose, you will never have to fight a tank- ever! A sniper snipes because he wants to OHK everyone - let him; unless theyre inside where he's useless A tank wants to be an unstoppable killing machine - and he is, but only where the maps allow, placing him against other tanks AV wants to kill tanks- and they will if tanks go into an urban environment where infantry rule Heavies want to be OP and be little tanks - and they will unless the get flanked by someone jumping through a window or rooftop, but anyone in front of them melts...except tanks if they choose to walk into tank land Dropships want to be usefull - they will be the only way to safely transport infantry across tank land Lasers want to be OP again - so let them be...but inside they still suck Mass drives wanna be OP - let them be OP, except for the fact that they have limited range and can't shoot further than the across the street or the next room accuratly. Assault rifles wanna do everything - and they do (except vs tanks), but not as well as anything else, but they still have less weaknesses Shotguns wanna OHK at close range - they will and there will be lots of it in urban combat, but not in the streets where it's open and their power counts for nothing LAVS wanna murder taxi - go for it. infantry in tank land die fast; but run into grunt world and youll find more proxy mines in unavoidable paths than you can count that WILL OHK you AV grenades want to kill tanks - well they can if there is half a squad lobbing it at a tank who was dumb enough to go into the land of the infantry, but try that in tank land and you wont get closer than 300m without melting. Assault dropships want to be assault-oriented - give them huge cannons that do 1000 DPS- after all, SOMEONE's gotta kill the logi dropships and keep the tanks in check if they get too brave. However, get to close to the infantry and a team of forge guns will kill you fast than you can evade because they are A TEAM.
Charlotte O'Dell Molon Labe. League of Infamy 486	Posted - 2013.06.16 00:45:00 - [7] - Quote Can we have PRO and ADV tanks yet?
Charlotte O'Dell Molon Labe. League of Infamy 533	Posted - 2013.06.18 12:30:00 - [8] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: One proto assault scrub should not be able to solo a tank, Why not? Why should one player with one set of kit not be able to solo one player with a different set of kit? Don't come back with "its a tank" because that isn't a valid game-play argument. Also, don't say "because of ISK or SP", because I don't believe those are significant limiting factors for a large portion of the player base any more. Is there a valid argument gameplay argument for "if I spec into this I will be significantly better than if I spec into anything else"? Also, remember I'm not saying one infantry player should be able to solo a HAV whenever they want. I'm saying a 3 man AV team should be able to kill a 3 man tank crew 50% of the time. actually it makes perfect sense that a master av can solo any tank atm...think about it....if you run into a sntd suit in dust..your ina proto suit..they're gun game may even be a bit better...but its just more likely your gunna scrub em up....its called proto stomping beating the crap out of people with lesser gear. tanks have no gear above stnd...ive seen the so called adv havs..and me asa proto av ive quesynced witha friend and hit a adv hav with adv av.....the need a slight buff... once tankers are given they're proto's it will most likely take a combo of heavy av and light av to control the field....caldari proto hav would not be soloable by 1 proto swarm..2-3 man av teams....balance This^ It's hard to say tanks are UP when we're missing more than half of them.