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Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
704
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Posted - 2013.06.09 15:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Shrapnels wrote:Where is the Cost fixes for a Corp who does NOT own a District, when Attacking?
I suggested this, but as it was pointed out to me, ALT corps freaking alt corps would abuse the crap out of it.
Unfortunately there is no good answer. But i for one would rather the entry into PC be lower even if it means economic might can overwhelm.
I have suggested a few things to help mitigate it though.
1. Currently a successful defense will yield 50% of clones from any clones over 150 brought to battle. Problem is no one brings more than 150 clones. So if you are only producing 80 clones that is your buffer before you can be beaten down by attrition over time. Frankly an 80 clone loss is very easy to come by in a tough fight.
Solution: Make it 50% of clones brought to battle regardless of number. So if its 150 clones you will earn 75 of them from a successful defense, add that your 80-100 clone generation, successfully defending really pays off and makes people think 2x of just mindless throwing ISK at you. As far as how to account for such a high yield, lets simply say that from x number of clones destroyed you can salvage the parts to yield a 50% return.
2. Currently there is a minimum 150 clone movement on attack, with this you can only obtain 50% of the clone generation of the district you are attacking. That is 40-50 clones. Again makes raiding not all that profitable once you factor in clone loss to and during battle and the ISK transport cost.
Solution: Make it 100% that means you can raid a district and gain 80-100 clones for winning the attack. That is a great raiding yield while not increasing passive ISK gain.
Originally i thought lets just increase the clone generation. That would only make things worse since your are creating a larger passive ISK faucet. Now ISK generation comes from actively attacking or successfully defending.
Most important you will note is that WINNING is the predominant factor that yields your rewards.
Now if you did this and lowered the ISK cost of clone attack to 40-60M It wouldnt be so bad. Sure ppl could use their ISK printers to use more clone pack attacks but if they aren't winning then they are basically paying you to fight them. If they are winning by farming small corps well then that might be where a good MERC organization can help--Fortunately I know of such an organization ;)
I think reducing the ISK clone cost and perhaps adding a sliding scale with increased cost or increase the cost for overall usage up to a max cost after x number of uses could be another way to go. Most importantly I was told that the defensive rewards may be too high for a single successful defense so perhaps tweak the percentages.
So as line item
1. Make active participation more rewarding than passive land holding
2. Make the entry and reentry into PC lower
3. DItch the idea of trying to tweak the numbers to force localized fighting, let people battle it out all over MH and then if PC opens up create escalting costs for newer regions for pathway to entry begins in one place and as people get better and has more money will branch into higher tiers of constellations(novel idea needs more thought).
4. Start moving towards a merc model let create better EVE rewards and incentives for EVE players to hold the land and let them hire out mercs or hold dust corps to defend/attack for them.
So please make raiding more fun
But more importantly create Dust styled gamemodes around PC. Create a capture the clone facility as a CTF mode, create a demolition or domination game mode for PC that has a different way of playing the game. Create an ambush variant that works in PC, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK SKRIM 1.0.
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
3446
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 to making raiding more fun and profitable
this would allow corps to reach their limit on what they can hold and attack others for income instead of always having to go take the district.
Im not a fan of holding large chunks of space, im of the belief that there is ENOUGH room in MH for alot of corps to play its just the current PC mechanics just make u wanna go keep grabbing more land, the problem with that is it pushes smaller corps out of PC and creates a headache of having a **** load of timers for the larger group to defend.
Basically every fight goin on now in PC is to gain more land and to evict ppl, while farming them is ALOT better because its RESULTS driven....u win u gain ISK.
Ppl dont gain much from controlling districts passively so unless u own alot u wont make much, but a smaller good group can own very little and still participate without being burdened with 10+ timers |
Sontie
Ill Omens
EoN.
641
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Posted - 2013.06.09 16:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Could you imagine, teams and strategies designed for raiding and defending against raids.
Dropships would become a lot more useful.
I want this, BAD! |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
336
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Posted - 2013.06.09 17:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
You say "raiding" in the title, though what I read was a PC revamp proposal that still focused on attacking to take the land (at least that is the impression I got).
When I think of raiding, I think of guerrilla style hit-and-run attacks where you aren't looking to take their land, you're just looking to take their ****. I would be more enthusiastic about PC in general if there were a way that we could interfere with (or briefly commandeer) passive wealth generation without needing to mount a full assault complete with timers and all.
I want to slip in in the dead of night and start taking your **** when the alarm sounds and you need to decide if you're going to let me rob your District blind or neglect other things to stop me from making off with your passive wealth for the day.
Raiding should be potentially very profitable and significantly cheaper than mounting a full-on assault. This isn't to say that it should be a cakewalk to perpetrate, though it shouldn't require near as much preparation or investment as it does to assault with the intention of evicting the current landowners. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
711
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Posted - 2013.06.09 17:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:You say "raiding" in the title, though what I read was a PC revamp proposal that still focused on attacking to take the land (at least that is the impression I got).
When I think of raiding, I think of guerrilla style hit-and-run attacks where you aren't looking to take their land, you're just looking to take their ****. I would be more enthusiastic about PC in general if there were a way that we could interfere with (or briefly commandeer) passive wealth generation without needing to mount a full assault complete with timers and all.
I want to slip in in the dead of night and start taking your **** when the alarm sounds and you need to decide if you're going to let me rob your District blind or neglect other things to stop me from making off with your passive wealth for the day.
Raiding should be potentially very profitable and significantly cheaper than mounting a full-on assault. This isn't to say that it should be a cakewalk to perpetrate, though it shouldn't require near as much preparation or investment as it does to assault with the intention of evicting the current landowners.
Yea I would like to see something like this too, just haven't put much thought into it yet. But feel free to propose some stuff i can always try to offer comments on ideas and help make them better. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
3467
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Posted - 2013.06.09 22:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:You say "raiding" in the title, though what I read was a PC revamp proposal that still focused on attacking to take the land (at least that is the impression I got).
When I think of raiding, I think of guerrilla style hit-and-run attacks where you aren't looking to take their land, you're just looking to take their ****. I would be more enthusiastic about PC in general if there were a way that we could interfere with (or briefly commandeer) passive wealth generation without needing to mount a full assault complete with timers and all.
I want to slip in in the dead of night and start taking your **** when the alarm sounds and you need to decide if you're going to let me rob your District blind or neglect other things to stop me from making off with your passive wealth for the day.
Raiding should be potentially very profitable and significantly cheaper than mounting a full-on assault. This isn't to say that it should be a cakewalk to perpetrate, though it shouldn't require near as much preparation or investment as it does to assault with the intention of evicting the current landowners.
that sounds kinda boring for a FPS tbqh, showing up in a match in a fps and no one to shoot........
heres my view on your point.......whats the point raiding if the enemy dont even show? slippin in the dead of the night means ppl will pick some random ass times to raid when u cant show up.
Also winning ur fight DOES actually interfere with the passive wealth generation. When u win the district doesnt generate clones for 24hrs and u also LOSE 150 clones minimum which means realistically the district is gonna take 2 days to start making back ISK passively
Right now i rather CCP make some quick tweaks that can work in the current system atm than trying to come up with a complex method while still being fun as a fps cuz lets be real.......if u arent shooting ppl in an FPS then why play it? |
Sontie
Ill Omens
EoN.
643
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 22:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
I want a PC game mechanic where when you raid, it becomes a conquest style thing. The defending team owns all the letters/installations from the get go. The attacking team gets a semi safe LZ and from there must progress through enemy territory to take the key objective deep in enemy lines. If that objective is taken, the attackers win. Period.
If there was a scaling reward for winning in a Raid based on the resources of the defending corp, that would be awesome too. The minimum for a successful attack would be like 8 mil (the $ the district would make in a day)(also the minimum needed to make raiding profitable). From that point on you also get more based upon how much isk the defending corp has in their wallet divided by how many districts they have.
So say Corp D(efense) has 500 mil in the corp wallet and owns 5 districts. Corp A(ttacker) launches a well executed raid and wins. They would get 8 mil + (500/5)*(super secret formula) = 40 mil isk. The defending corp would lose 32 mil from their corp wallet and not gain the clone production for that day, but it wouldn't lock the district. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
338
|
Posted - 2013.06.09 23:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:You say "raiding" in the title, though what I read was a PC revamp proposal that still focused on attacking to take the land (at least that is the impression I got).
When I think of raiding, I think of guerrilla style hit-and-run attacks where you aren't looking to take their land, you're just looking to take their ****. I would be more enthusiastic about PC in general if there were a way that we could interfere with (or briefly commandeer) passive wealth generation without needing to mount a full assault complete with timers and all.
I want to slip in in the dead of night and start taking your **** when the alarm sounds and you need to decide if you're going to let me rob your District blind or neglect other things to stop me from making off with your passive wealth for the day.
Raiding should be potentially very profitable and significantly cheaper than mounting a full-on assault. This isn't to say that it should be a cakewalk to perpetrate, though it shouldn't require near as much preparation or investment as it does to assault with the intention of evicting the current landowners. that sounds kinda boring for a FPS tbqh, showing up in a match in a fps and no one to shoot........ heres my view on your point.......whats the point raiding if the enemy dont even show? slippin in the dead of the night means ppl will pick some random ass times to raid when u cant show up. Also winning ur fight DOES actually interfere with the passive wealth generation. When u win the district doesnt generate clones for 24hrs and u also LOSE 150 clones minimum which means realistically the district is gonna take 2 days to start making back ISK passively Right now i rather CCP make some quick tweaks that can work in the current system atm than trying to come up with a complex method while still being fun as a fps cuz lets be real.......if u arent shooting ppl in an FPS then why play it?
I see what you're saying though you're from SyNergy Gaming, aren't you guys a competitive MLG corp/clan?
I can understand why you'd take the view from an FPSer POV. I am looking at it from more of an MMO/RPGer POV.
In answer to your question, the point of raiding "even if the enemy doesn't show" is to gather wealth at their expense. They're confident enough to have seized land they call their own, they'd better be ready to defend it when the time comes, regardless of when that time is. If they don't show to defend their territory, they still maintain their land, they just lose out on the profit their land would've provided for them for that cycle. It is something that happens in Eve (granted it happens differently) and I feel it should have an analogue in Dust.
In response to your assertion that "winning your fight does actually interfere", yes, though in order to do that, the attackers need to put up the same investment that they would need to if they were looking to seize the District for their own. In my proposal, they wouldn't need to put up nearly as much of an investment to negatively impact the passive wealth generation of their target. The return from raiding wouldn't align with the necessary investment, especially if the raiders didn't plan on seizing the District for their own.
Beyond that, it opens up other potential possibilities down the road, if they don't pay enough attention to their Districts and try to hold vast tracts of land just to say they can; who is to say that people couldn't dig Viet Cong-style bunkers under their District and know it better (and profit from it more) than the Feudal Landlords who fancy themselves as powerful because of their vast tracts of land.
3-way PC battles anyone? You can be the attackers, they can be the defenders, I want to be Roach, living under their stairs, knowing their house better than they do. If you make it your house, I'll still know it better than you do.
I know that Dust is an FPS, though that doesn't mean that everything needs to revolve around "Instant Battles!!!!!!". |
Evil-Stuffed-Animal
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Omega Commission
32
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Posted - 2013.06.10 00:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK SKRIM 1.0.
+1 |
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