DUST Search - Ability to Respec

TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:

dabest2evadoit7 wrote:

Butt Dancer wrote:

It seems a little silly to me that with how long it takes to understand this game, and set up a character, that you never get the option to respec your character short of contacting the makers of the game.

Many FPS's give you the ability to respec. I understand this is not like regular FPS's, but many MMOs also give you the ability to respec your skills.

I do not think you should be able to respec whenever you want, but what I propose is you get to respec your character after hitting some kind of goal. For example:

Once every week you get to respec.
You can respec at the cost of 20,000 SP
You can respec at the cost of 1,000,000 ISK

Something like that. Does that sound acceptable or would it ruin this clearly perfect game?

Lol @ the sarcasm at the end. Tbh, as it stands with all these changes I think a respec should be given without questions, Once the game is on solid foundation, I think it would be okay to do it after a certain time period. In Eve you get three respecs with every new toon, then u have to wait a year and you get the opportunity to do it again.

These are not skill respecs you get. You reallocate attributes, which, in turn, generate SP faster in some areas and slower in others.

Eve is purely passive, as you train over time, not through actions. Every skill has two attributes that effect the training speed of the skill (such as Intelligence and Memory). The attribute level determines your training time.

The reallocation lets you swap a handful of stats between each other, really only affecting your long-term training.

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Butt Dancer Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:15:00 - [1] - Quote It seems a little silly to me that with how long it takes to understand this game, and set up a character, that you never get the option to respec your character short of contacting the makers of the game. Many FPS's give you the ability to respec. I understand this is not like regular FPS's, but many MMOs also give you the ability to respec your skills. I do not think you should be able to respec whenever you want, but what I propose is you get to respec your character after hitting some kind of goal. For example: Once every week you get to respec. You can respec at the cost of 20,000 SP You can respec at the cost of 1,000,000 ISK Something like that. Does that sound acceptable or would it ruin this clearly perfect game?
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 695	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:16:00 - [2] - Quote I posted in a previous thread that I would murder a kitten every time this is brought up. I already buried Lily. I'll go get Sammy's shoebox.
HK Rage Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 11	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:18:00 - [3] - Quote This is on there long To-Do List, honestly this game is still in alpha stages considering how much is missing from the game when they first introduced the trailers.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 698	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:19:00 - [4] - Quote HK Rage wrote: This is on there long To-Do List, honestly this game is still in alpha stages considering how much is missing from the game when they first introduced the trailers. It's actually not on their to-do list, unless you can link me to a dev post stating otherwise.
dabest2evadoit7 Cyberdyne Systems and Technology The Universal Accord 71	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:21:00 - [5] - Quote Butt Dancer wrote: It seems a little silly to me that with how long it takes to understand this game, and set up a character, that you never get the option to respec your character short of contacting the makers of the game. Many FPS's give you the ability to respec. I understand this is not like regular FPS's, but many MMOs also give you the ability to respec your skills. I do not think you should be able to respec whenever you want, but what I propose is you get to respec your character after hitting some kind of goal. For example: Once every week you get to respec. You can respec at the cost of 20,000 SP You can respec at the cost of 1,000,000 ISK Something like that. Does that sound acceptable or would it ruin this clearly perfect game? Lol @ the sarcasm at the end. Tbh, as it stands with all these changes I think a respec should be given without questions, Once the game is on solid foundation, I think it would be okay to do it after a certain time period. In Eve you get three respecs with every new toon, then u have to wait a year and you get the opportunity to do it again.
XXfootnoteXX DUST University Ivy League 329	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:22:00 - [6] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: HK Rage wrote: This is on there long To-Do List, honestly this game is still in alpha stages considering how much is missing from the game when they first introduced the trailers. It's actually not on their to-do list, unless you can link me to a dev post stating otherwise. I would like to see the link to that too.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 698	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:23:00 - [7] - Quote dabest2evadoit7 wrote: Butt Dancer wrote: It seems a little silly to me that with how long it takes to understand this game, and set up a character, that you never get the option to respec your character short of contacting the makers of the game. Many FPS's give you the ability to respec. I understand this is not like regular FPS's, but many MMOs also give you the ability to respec your skills. I do not think you should be able to respec whenever you want, but what I propose is you get to respec your character after hitting some kind of goal. For example: Once every week you get to respec. You can respec at the cost of 20,000 SP You can respec at the cost of 1,000,000 ISK Something like that. Does that sound acceptable or would it ruin this clearly perfect game? Lol @ the sarcasm at the end. Tbh, as it stands with all these changes I think a respec should be given without questions, Once the game is on solid foundation, I think it would be okay to do it after a certain time period. In Eve you get three respecs with every new toon, then u have to wait a year and you get the opportunity to do it again. These are not skill respecs you get. You reallocate attributes, which, in turn, generate SP faster in some areas and slower in others. Eve is purely passive, as you train over time, not through actions. Every skill has two attributes that effect the training speed of the skill (such as Intelligence and Memory). The attribute level determines your training time. The reallocation lets you swap a handful of stats between each other, really only affecting your long-term training. Say something takes 100 days to train into, since you don't have the attributes for it. You use a "Neural Remap" (which is what they're called) to move some attributes out of some stats and into others (Taking Charisma and putting it into Perception). You cut your training time down to, say, 94 days. What a respec does is take already spent skillpoints and allocates them elsewhere, as when the Learning skills were removed. This would let you instantly learn a new skill instead of train it over time.
dabest2evadoit7 Cyberdyne Systems and Technology The Universal Accord 71	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:26:00 - [8] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: dabest2evadoit7 wrote: Butt Dancer wrote: It seems a little silly to me that with how long it takes to understand this game, and set up a character, that you never get the option to respec your character short of contacting the makers of the game. Many FPS's give you the ability to respec. I understand this is not like regular FPS's, but many MMOs also give you the ability to respec your skills. I do not think you should be able to respec whenever you want, but what I propose is you get to respec your character after hitting some kind of goal. For example: Once every week you get to respec. You can respec at the cost of 20,000 SP You can respec at the cost of 1,000,000 ISK Something like that. Does that sound acceptable or would it ruin this clearly perfect game? Lol @ the sarcasm at the end. Tbh, as it stands with all these changes I think a respec should be given without questions, Once the game is on solid foundation, I think it would be okay to do it after a certain time period. In Eve you get three respecs with every new toon, then u have to wait a year and you get the opportunity to do it again. These are not skill respecs you get. You reallocate attributes, which, in turn, generate SP faster in some areas and slower in others. Eve is purely passive, as you train over time, not through actions. Every skill has two attributes that effect the training speed of the skill (such as Intelligence and Memory). The attribute level determines your training time. The reallocation lets you swap a handful of stats between each other, really only affecting your long-term training. I know this, however since Dust is not passive what would u say would be the equivalent? Or should there not be one for Dust players?
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 698	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:28:00 - [9] - Quote dabest2evadoit7 wrote: Or should there not be one for Dust players? There should not be one.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 202	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:36:00 - [10] - Quote The problem with DUST's SP system is that a FPS is faster paced than an MMO. EVE is probably the slowest paced MMO is existence, not that it's a bad thing it just is. The problem is that an SP system in EVE works because of the slow pace. In DUST, waiting 6 months to be able to do something effectively does not really work that well because of the FPS-archetype. The faster paced attitude of a FPS (at least with player expectations) is antithetical to an EVE style SP system. And yet the SP system is the selling point of both DUST and EVE. So what is to be done? Speeding things up greatly betrays the nature of CCP. Allowing Respecializations betrays the persistence that DUST 514 wants to sell. Keeping things as they are will likely never get the crowd of people that CCP wants to have. Keeping things as they are betrays the FPS shooter / console concept of "pick up and play." There is no easy answer. I'm glad I don't have to make it.

Malkai Inos The Vanguardians Orion Empire 222	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:37:00 - [11] - Quote Neural remaps are just a remnant of the fact that bloodlines once had varying attributes(i.e. some could train weapon skills betterm others industry, yadda). Those differences have since been removed because everyone choose best overall bloodline and neural remaps added to preserve the ability to "guide" ones skilltraining. None of this applies to dust, neural remaps are not even similar to respec. I have crossed "Neural Remaps" on my specially made "Respec Bullshit Bingo". Let's see if i get a price again....
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 699	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:39:00 - [12] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Neural remaps are just a remnant of the fact that bloodlines once had varying attributes(i.e. some could train weapon skills betterm others industry, yadda). Those differences have since been removed because everyone choose best overall bloodline and neural remaps added to preserve the ability to "guide" ones skilltraining. None of this applies to dust, neural remaps are not even similar to respec. I have crossed "Neural Remaps" on my specially made "Respec Bullshit Bingo". Let's see if i get a price again.... Did you get mark off the "Penalize refunded SP" square yet?
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 234	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:45:00 - [13] - Quote Sure you can respec. That'll be 10000000 AUR please.
Malkai Inos The Vanguardians Orion Empire 222	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:45:00 - [14] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: Neural remaps are just a remnant of the fact that bloodlines once had varying attributes(i.e. some could train weapon skills betterm others industry, yadda). Those differences have since been removed because everyone choose best overall bloodline and neural remaps added to preserve the ability to "guide" ones skilltraining. None of this applies to dust, neural remaps are not even similar to respec. I have crossed "Neural Remaps" on my specially made "Respec Bullshit Bingo". Let's see if i get a price again.... Did you get mark off the "Penalize refunded SP" square yet? Why no, thank you. But on the subject: Here is a recent thread on the same topic in wich the pro/cons have been discussed in great length. Whatever will be said here, probably has ben said, analized, refuted, insisted and refuted again in that thread so please, for everyone interested, go take a look there before we end up with the same discussion all over again.
Allah's Snackbar Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 56	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:56:00 - [15] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: analized
Malkai Inos The Vanguardians Orion Empire 222	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:58:00 - [16] - Quote Allah's Snackbar wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: analized Fine...gee
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2515	Posted - 2013.06.02 01:00:00 - [17] - Quote I don't need to repeat every reason why this is a bad idea for the one hundredth time. No. CCP said there will be no more respecs. Didn't you read the announcements?
LeCuch Red Star. EoN. 200	Posted - 2013.06.02 01:06:00 - [18] - Quote Butt Dancer wrote: It seems a little silly to me that with how long it takes to understand this game, and set up a character, that you never get the option to respec your character short of contacting the makers of the game. Many FPS's give you the ability to respec. I understand this is not like regular FPS's, but many MMOs also give you the ability to respec your skills. I do not think you should be able to respec whenever you want, but what I propose is you get to respec your character after hitting some kind of goal. For example: Once every week you get to respec. You can respec at the cost of 20,000 SP You can respec at the cost of 1,000,000 ISK Something like that. Does that sound acceptable or would it ruin this clearly perfect game? That means if i used my skill points i could respec exactly: 570 times off of my skill points or 169 times off of my ISK.
Butt Dancer Kinsho Swords Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:44:00 - [19] - Quote LeCuch wrote: Butt Dancer wrote: It seems a little silly to me that with how long it takes to understand this game, and set up a character, that you never get the option to respec your character short of contacting the makers of the game. Many FPS's give you the ability to respec. I understand this is not like regular FPS's, but many MMOs also give you the ability to respec your skills. I do not think you should be able to respec whenever you want, but what I propose is you get to respec your character after hitting some kind of goal. For example: Once every week you get to respec. You can respec at the cost of 20,000 SP You can respec at the cost of 1,000,000 ISK Something like that. Does that sound acceptable or would it ruin this clearly perfect game? That means if i used my skill points i could respec exactly: 570 times off of my skill points or 169 times off of my ISK. ...Okay.
KOBLAKA1 Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 203	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:47:00 - [20] - Quote Gonna throw this tidbit out there. Every year EVE players get to reallocate their attributes. How about once a year we get relocate all SP earned through active means (ie actually playing earned sp).

TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1315	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:47:00 - [21] - Quote Thread Necro 5 get
Buddha Brown Factory Fresh 26	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:48:00 - [22] - Quote GO AWAY
Vavilia Lysenko Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 114	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:51:00 - [23] - Quote HK Rage wrote: This is on there long To-Do List, honestly this game is still in alpha stages considering how much is missing from the game when they first introduced the trailers. I'm pretty sure it's on their Not to Do list. Unless I missed the memo about Hell Freezing over? Did I? Did I miss it? Bugger! Better pack some Woolies I suppose.
Miokai Zahou Film Actors Guilds 0	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:59:00 - [24] - Quote dabest2evadoit7 wrote: Lol @ the sarcasm at the end. Tbh, as it stands with all these changes I think a respec should be given without questions, Once the game is on solid foundation, I think it would be okay to do it after a certain time period. In Eve you get three RE-MAPS with every new toon, then u have to wait a year and you get the opportunity to do it again. There, fixed it for you. Respecs are NOT re-maps. Get it right. AND. No.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 93	Posted - 2013.07.04 01:38:00 - [25] - Quote Butt Dancer wrote: It seems a little silly to me that with how long it takes to understand this game, and set up a character, that you never get the option to respec your character short of contacting the makers of the game. Many FPS's give you the ability to respec. I understand this is not like regular FPS's, but many MMOs also give you the ability to respec your skills. I do not think you should be able to respec whenever you want, but what I propose is you get to respec your character after hitting some kind of goal. For example: Once every week you get to respec. You can respec at the cost of 20,000 SP You can respec at the cost of 1,000,000 ISK Something like that. Does that sound acceptable or would it ruin this clearly perfect game? Seriously, this game isn't rocket science. The descriptions of everything are in the equipment pages and all the maths is pretty basic and obvious. Spread your SP along core skills, pick a favourite weapon but don't completely cut yourself off from other options, voila, no respec ever needed. Sure some things have been heavily changed but that's a temporary problem with CCP's balancing and wouldn't be a problem for players who didn't try to FOTM to the very end of that skill-tree.


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