Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3142
   |
Posted - 2013.05.30 13:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:it increases your base range, but your base range was probably 10m. So even at level 5, a 50% increase brings you from 10m to 15m scan range.
FYI, the smallest circle on your radar is 25m, so it doesn't make a huge difference anyway. You can see a chevron of someone on the other side of a rock / box / turret. Or you will see the radar blip of a shotgun scout right before he plugs you. That's about it.
I think base range should be upped to 20m, because for half a million SP range amp isn't really worth it. Also dampening isn't necessary because nobody has range, and since nobody dampens, nobody needs precision. All three skills are in a feedback loop of useless at the moment.
Before Uprising actually came out, the story was that Scouts were getting 5m range, and the other suits were going all the way down to 2m.
I actually think that 10m is reasonable - for the basic Light Frame suit. Non-Light suits should be lower, and Scouts should be higher, but NOT BY MUCH. Maybe 7m or so for Heavy and Medium Frame suits, with Lights getting 10m and Scouts getting 12 - 15m range.
Add the Long Range Scanning skill, and a Light Frame or a Scout has enough range to be useful, but not so much that they're invalidating the usefulness of Active Scanners. A Gallente Scout will still be in the reasonable-but-powerful range. Add it to a Logi or Assault, and you get enough scan range to at least match the baseline stats on a Scout.
That would make Scouts actually valuable AS SCOUTS. Like they should be. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3162
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 12:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:I disagree. Making the skills less powerful will make it so less people rely on them at all, and they will fall out of play strategy entirely.
The problem with lower scan ranges is that it trains people to largely ignore their radars. With a 7m scan radius, you could up that to 10.5m with Range Amplification. I legitimately wonder how many kills occur in this range. The shotgun optimal range is about 9m. So the only people your radar would effectively warn you about are shotgunners right about to strike. Otherwise people tend to engage much further away.
Shotguns are barely hitting a target at 9m, they really need to be more like 5m to hit solidly because any further and the spread ruins them (even with max skills). SMGs are also most effective within the 10m range, and what I was suggesting was to reduce range for MEDIUM and HEAVY suits, which shouldn't be the primary scanning suits anyway. You CAN use a combination of skills and modules (you forgot to mention there are range enhancer modules, didn't you?) to get a range of 15+ and see SMG enemies on the edge of their preferred range.
And you're ignoring the fact that players feed their TACNET data to teammates, so if I light someone up while I'm running as a Scout, that friendly Sniper halfway across the map will see the target marker, and if there's an AR guy 50m down the next hall, he'll not only see the marker if he looks (even through a wall), but also see the guy on his radar.
Quote:The GÇÿExileGÇÖ Assault Rifle, for example, has a max range of 78m with an optimal range of up to 35m. So assume you have fully maxed out Range Amplification, for the low low cost of 4.5mil SP, and assume you are being shot by an AR. Your radar would allow you to 1/3 of the way to your assailant. Woopee.
People are being trained to ignore their mini-maps and just use their eyes. The radar really offers no information you canGÇÖt acquire by just having situational awareness. This sucks for stealth builds, because they arenGÇÖt actually invisible (yet, SoonTM, etcGǪ). Stealth builds are about tricking radars, not eyeballs. But if nobody uses the radar, why spend millions of points on dodging it?
Stealth fitting is about negating enemy scanning capabilities by reducing your profile. Stealth play is about countering situational awareness by making sure nobody gets eyes on you. I can't tell you how often my 20m+ Scan Radius has let me find a flanker and get into position to Shotgun him on the way around the corner, or mention the threat to a friendly Heavy who watches and punishes the guy for thinking "behind wall = invisible".
If you don't fit, skill AND play for stealth, you aren't stealthing. You're failing.
Quote:This whole issue is further confused, because for 18,660 SP you can pick up a basic Active Scanner which will allow you to see 100m. ThatGÇÖs huge! Now, itGÇÖs only an arc and itGÇÖs only for a few seconds, but it also shows up on the whole teamGÇÖs map. So there are pros and cons. But for 4.5mil versus 18k SP, the Active Scanner is currently substantially better than passive Range Amplification.
The answer to this whole mess, I believe, is counter intuitive. We need increase reliance on mini-maps by making them stronger. If mini-maps had better range and were a near-guarantee to ping you on radar at 20 or 30m, with minimal training, people would feel the need to dampen. That would keep you hidden longer and alive longer. If more people were dampening, then other folk would feel the need to enhance precision to counteract it. And as those two wash, more people would use range amplification to get that edge of seeing someone first. For the price of those skills, it would evolve into a Scout/Assault shadow game of knowing which corners/hallways/hills are safe. And of course, you could avoid it all together if you werenGÇÖt interested. But right now all those skills are so weak and under utilized that itGÇÖs not worth it to spec any.
TL;DR: CCP needs to make people more reliant on mini-map (make it stronger and/or more prevalent), so there is a reason for players to invest in the buff/debuff skills.
I'd rather see NON-Scouts stay at the current level or less, and Scouts get a buff to their role, because then Scouts will be lighting targets up for their team (and they DO light targets up for their team, not just for themselves) as they should be. Active Scanners will still have a role, but it won't be an exclusive role that nothing else can provide. |