DUST Search - Chances of a Shield Tanking Nerf?

MONKEY CHEEKS wrote:

Mike Poole wrote:

Given how CCP handles things anyone have the faintest clue?

I've seen many people complaining about the caldari logi's ability to shield tank and while planning to respec into a logi that survivability is one of the leading pros for picking caldari.

I can't figure if the fuss is just over a perceived imbalance that won't be fixed or if there's even a better alternative logi build that would function well enough in either situation.

CCP has no clue wtf their doing nor do they know how to balance anything.... i rather just have tanks be the same as they were before uprising and av aswell, everything was quite balanced...

they have already took a dump on shields by taking away engineering skill, next- they are now slow- I thought shield tanks were suppose to be fast and have good acceleration because their is no armor holding them down but now its exact opposite), thier next dump is going to be taking away more pg and cp, increasing the price, and then making them more vulnerable to collision...

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Mike Poole Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 63	Posted - 2013.05.28 20:00:00 - [1] - Quote Given how CCP handles things anyone have the faintest clue? I've seen many people complaining about the caldari logi's ability to shield tank and while planning to respec into a logi that survivability is one of the leading pros for picking caldari. I can't figure if the fuss is just over a perceived imbalance that won't be fixed or if there's even a better alternative logi build that would function well enough in either situation.
MONKEY CHEEKS Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2013.05.28 20:02:00 - [2] - Quote Mike Poole wrote: Given how CCP handles things anyone have the faintest clue? I've seen many people complaining about the caldari logi's ability to shield tank and while planning to respec into a logi that survivability is one of the leading pros for picking caldari. I can't figure if the fuss is just over a perceived imbalance that won't be fixed or if there's even a better alternative logi build that would function well enough in either situation. CCP has no clue wtf their doing nor do they know how to balance anything.... i rather just have tanks be the same as they were before uprising and av aswell, everything was quite balanced... they have already took a dump on shields by taking away engineering skill, next- they are now slow- I thought shield tanks were suppose to be fast and have good acceleration because their is no armor holding them down but now its exact opposite), thier next dump is going to be taking away more pg and cp, increasing the price, and then making them more vulnerable to collision...
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 1132	Posted - 2013.05.28 20:02:00 - [3] - Quote Problems: Cal Logi shield tanking is OP Armor tanking AT THE STANDARD LEVEL is underpowered That's it. Other shield tanks are fine, and when you get advanced suits or better, then armor start to shine.
Thor McStrut Intara Direct Action Caldari State 15	Posted - 2013.05.28 20:04:00 - [4] - Quote Shield tank nerf has already arrived. You'll find it in the market under the grenades tab.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 1132	Posted - 2013.05.28 20:07:00 - [5] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: Shield tank nerf has already arrived. You'll find it in the market under the grenades tab. A grenade is coming that does the same to armor. Your argument is invalid.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 240	Posted - 2013.05.28 20:09:00 - [6] - Quote If they reduced the ridiculous movement speed penalty on armor plates I think you'd find shield tanking to be quite balanced. Everything has a bonus to shields... ARs are 110% to shields and SRs are 120% to shields, flux grenades wreck shields, lot of counters to shield tanking in place already. Its just that movement speed penalty, while it might be okay for heavies, is NOT okay for medium and light frames. Best way to balance shield tanking imho is to fix armor tanking. Ferroscale plates are not the answer either (even though I know CCP thinks so) cause they will, by nature, have to have close to the same hp as shields... at which point.. why bother? Ferroscale plates will be really good for shield tankers who dont want to sacrifice move speed but the armor value just wont be high enough to make armor tanking worth it. Unless Amarr and Gallente get like a 50% bonus to ferroscale plates, I can't imagine it will ever be a viable way to balance armor.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 1132	Posted - 2013.05.28 20:12:00 - [7] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: If they reduced the ridiculous movement speed penalty on armor plates I think you'd find shield tanking to be quite balanced. Everything has a bonus to shields... ARs are 110% to shields and SRs are 120% to shields, flux grenades wreck shields, lot of counters to shield tanking in place already. Its just that movement speed penalty, while it might be okay for heavies, is NOT okay for medium and light frames. Best way to balance shield tanking imho is to fix armor tanking. Ferroscale plates are not the answer either (even though I know CCP thinks so) cause they will, by nature, have to have close to the same hp as shields... at which point.. why bother? Ferroscale plates will be really good for shield tankers who dont want to sacrifice move speed but the armor value just wont be high enough to make armor tanking worth it. Unless Amarr and Gallente get like a 50% bonus to ferroscale plates, I can't imagine it will ever be a viable way to balance armor. Actually, the ferrocsale will by logic be above shields in HP. Its the reactive armor that will be the same. It has self regeneration, just like shields.
Mike Poole Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 63	Posted - 2013.05.28 20:24:00 - [8] - Quote The uncertainty on how things may eventually balance out keeps freezing me up on which logi suit to pick. Go with Gallente/Armor and hope armor gets better? Go with Caldari/Shields and hope shields don't get worse? Screw both of those and go Minmatar with a little of both just to be safe?
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 1137	Posted - 2013.05.28 20:27:00 - [9] - Quote Mike Poole wrote: The uncertainty on how things may eventually balance out keeps freezing me up on which logi suit to pick. Go with Gallente/Armor and hope armor gets better? Go with Caldari/Shields and hope shields don't get worse? Screw both of those and go Minmatar with a little of both just to be safe? Actually, Amarr has the same shield and armor.
Mike Poole Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 63	Posted - 2013.05.28 20:29:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Mike Poole wrote: The uncertainty on how things may eventually balance out keeps freezing me up on which logi suit to pick. Go with Gallente/Armor and hope armor gets better? Go with Caldari/Shields and hope shields don't get worse? Screw both of those and go Minmatar with a little of both just to be safe? Actually, Amarr has the same shield and armor. Realized that, kinda dropped Amarr from my personal consideration since the slot options for logi are fairly unimpressive until prototype.

Setaceous Prime Nexus Prima 46	Posted - 2013.05.28 20:40:00 - [11] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: If they reduced the ridiculous movement speed penalty on armor plates I think you'd find shield tanking to be quite balanced. Everything has a bonus to shields... ARs are 110% to shields and SRs are 120% to shields, flux grenades wreck shields, lot of counters to shield tanking in place already. Its just that movement speed penalty, while it might be okay for heavies, is NOT okay for medium and light frames. Best way to balance shield tanking imho is to fix armor tanking. Ferroscale plates are not the answer either (even though I know CCP thinks so) cause they will, by nature, have to have close to the same hp as shields... at which point.. why bother? Ferroscale plates will be really good for shield tankers who dont want to sacrifice move speed but the armor value just wont be high enough to make armor tanking worth it. Unless Amarr and Gallente get like a 50% bonus to ferroscale plates, I can't imagine it will ever be a viable way to balance armor. They should really do what they did in EvE and introduce a skill that lightens armour/increases speed without penalising the protection. Maybe tie it into some of the advanced armour skills? TBH I don't know what they are, I went with sheilds
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2013.05.28 21:02:00 - [12] - Quote MONKEY CHEEKS wrote: Mike Poole wrote: Given how CCP handles things anyone have the faintest clue? I've seen many people complaining about the caldari logi's ability to shield tank and while planning to respec into a logi that survivability is one of the leading pros for picking caldari. I can't figure if the fuss is just over a perceived imbalance that won't be fixed or if there's even a better alternative logi build that would function well enough in either situation. CCP has no clue wtf their doing nor do they know how to balance anything.... i rather just have tanks be the same as they were before uprising and av aswell, everything was quite balanced... they have already took a dump on shields by taking away engineering skill, next- they are now slow- I thought shield tanks were suppose to be fast and have good acceleration because their is no armor holding them down but now its exact opposite), thier next dump is going to be taking away more pg and cp, increasing the price, and then making them more vulnerable to collision... Despite the poster not mentioning it, I think he's talking about dropsuits, not tanks.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 611	Posted - 2013.05.28 21:27:00 - [13] - Quote CCP likes to play with numbers a lot. Spec into your favorite playstyle. No item in this game will be left by itself for too long. It's just their nature. Nothing wrong with it IMO.
Bonchu Blunt Rifle Intergalactic Smooochie 11	Posted - 2013.05.28 21:47:00 - [14] - Quote For armour tanking you will want to have 3-4 complex repairers to bump your armour regen up to ~20 (or more) hitpoints per second to put it on par with an unmodded shield regen rate. The advantage is that the armour regen is constant - there is no delay for in/out of combat. In addition to the repairers you may also want to add a basic or advanced (not prototype) level plate if you don't mind making a minor trade on movement speed for a little more EHP. This will result in a regen advantage vs shield tankers (since no out of combat delay) at the cost of an EHP disadvantage. The playstyle then becomes one of lowering incoming DPS to match your regen rate by ducking in and out of cover (speed tanking unadviseable since you will likely be at a movement disadvantage if put on a plate), keeping a constant damage flow on you opponent to minimize his regen rate. I also tend to stack shield extenders in the highs to offset the EHP disadvantage. Some people instead go with damage mods. Additional tactics could include spider tanking with remote armour reps, and timing your pushes to be at points when you have both shields and armour regenerating.
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 58	Posted - 2013.05.28 22:06:00 - [15] - Quote When we talk about armor vs shields please consider the following. For every shield extender/recharger you use you CANNOT fit one damage mod. For every armor plate/repairer you use it DOES NOT affect your ability to have damage mods. So can armor and shield be equally strong ? By that I mean someone with 5 lows and 5 highs fighting it out with only defensive modules being the same. No beacuse the armor guy could always maybe put damage mods on. I do a present think armor is currently too weak. Reduce the speed penalty and I think we can be good. Maybe a slight hp increase to each plate too.
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 58	Posted - 2013.05.28 22:11:00 - [16] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: If they reduced the ridiculous movement speed penalty on armor plates I think you'd find shield tanking to be quite balanced. Everything has a bonus to shields... ARs are 110% to shields and SRs are 120% to shields, flux grenades wreck shields, lot of counters to shield tanking in place already. Its just that movement speed penalty, while it might be okay for heavies, is NOT okay for medium and light frames. Best way to balance shield tanking imho is to fix armor tanking. Ferroscale plates are not the answer either (even though I know CCP thinks so) cause they will, by nature, have to have close to the same hp as shields... at which point.. why bother? Ferroscale plates will be really good for shield tankers who dont want to sacrifice move speed but the armor value just wont be high enough to make armor tanking worth it. Unless Amarr and Gallente get like a 50% bonus to ferroscale plates, I can't imagine it will ever be a viable way to balance armor. This is exactly what i've been thinking since i heard about ferroscale plates. There only going to be used on people who have an empty low or Scouts. +1 to you sir. I honestly don't know who will be using these self repping plates either? What will they be like at proto + 25 armor, -1% speed , 3 armor per second. Who will use that? Not armor tankers the same people i mentioned above. 3 armor a second could be good on an advanced suit but its not a game changer nor something id think proto armor tankers would use.


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