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Yosef Autaal
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
88
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Posted - 2013.05.28 11:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
TL:DR Logi Lavs need help with targeting please read it all :D
So Logi Lavs are one of the most underused vehicles in dust I believe (IGÇÖve seen a handful in pub matches since they were introduced so long ago) and there is a good reason for this.
There impractical with a capital HOLYSHIT WHY DID I SKILL THIS.
So letGÇÖs look at the problems mainly with the Caldari variant as this is the one I have the most experience with.
The LAV itself has a nice amount of hp and has nice amount of speed so is hard to kill with some most standard AV attacks
it has nice amount of slots and works as a beefed up LAV to get you from a to b without having to worry about swarms and random AV grenades being thrown as you drive past but this is where the good times end.
The main role is the Remote infantry shield rep which come free and fitted with every Logi LAV, this module cannot be bought on the market cannot be upgraded cannot be skilled into and improved with any bonus's.
when the module is activated you get a box appear on screen ,imagine the rep tools reticule but grown to cover 3/4 of the screen and the camera movement becomes a lot faster (twice the sensitivity of the standard LAV camera controls) and can also easily turn 360* around the LAV.
This is a great size and great manoeuvrability so that any infantry you look at within this box begins to be targeted by the rep, what you might not realise at first is that the rep has a set time which it takes to lock on (think swarm launcher lock on times) and this is where it goes downhill big time.
When you look at a blueberry the lock on sound begins and this is the only indication you have that the rep is locking onto an infantry member, but this lock on sound doesnGÇÖt tell you who youGÇÖre locking onto just you are locking
for example you have a 3 blueberries in front of you 2 assault and a heavy and you target your infantry rep at the group the heavy is taking serious shield damage and needs repping so the sound begins you wait and lock on is established but you find out you only locked on assault user turns out the heavy who badly needed rep was just out of range and you was never locking him from the start, to rep the heavy you now have to move closer and begin the lock cycle again, but by this point the heavy is probably dead.
you can see this is bad what is needed is a way to show you are targeting a blueberry this could be done with a targeting icon that appears when you begin to target a blueberry and shows you how long you have left till the target is locked this makes it simple and easy to understand what the situation is with repping.
Now I understand the need to lock on shields rep themselves quick enough if you could insta rep shield on top of that might be a bit much so I agree a time to lock on can be justified but the amount of time it takes to lock on to a individual in some cases is the time it takes for the shields to begin recharging themselves when not under fire.
Due to the long lock on time and the uncertainty of who you are locking onto the easiest way to make sure you lock onto the right target and stay locked on is to stay close to the target, move with the target and reduce the amount of movement the vehicle makes to insure the target stays in LoS (explained later). The issue with all these points is that due to the driver being exposed they in a lot of danger from focused fire and to be effective as a rep support is unable to use the LAVs manoeuvrability to avoid fire as a standard LAV does and in most cases might have to sit still and prey no one fires on him or make sure the LAV is facing backwards to any oncoming fire.
Another issue that adds to the inefficiency of the rep is if a target is obstructed from view for any moment the lock is lost and most be relocked. this is understandable to happen as we donGÇÖt want the LAV to be repping people from behind a wall where it is in no danger for example but due to long lock on times and the focus on infantry moving in and out of cover in a fire fight and having to move constantly in the LAV to avoid shots to the driver (as stated earlier) means when all these factors are added together the chance of locking before the lock on is completed and reps can be passed and maintaining a good lock is very difficult.
one solution to both the previous problem is that the reps stop and the lock deteriorates while the target is out of LoS so after a few seconds the lock is broken and must be relocked, but if the target moves back into LoS before the lock completely deteriorates they can receive reps again rather than the lock breaking completely and having to be relocked.
with this change it means that infantry can constantly keep moving in and out of cover to avoid fire or can take some fire then move back behind cover into the logi LoS to receive reps and then move back into the fight (I see Logi Lavs used to get infantry back into fights quicker after taking damage more than keeping infantry in fights by out repping the dps put on them), also the LAV can keep moving around and reduce the need to worry about losing lock so the driver can use the LAVS manoeuvrability to counter the risks at being exposed
Now I have no experience with the Gallente Logi LAV and the Infantry Armour remote rep but I have been told that it has the same mechanics as the Caldari variant (needing to lock onto targets), if this is true can someone post in the comments below, the problem I have found with the Logi LAVS is so few people have skilled into them that itGÇÖs hard to get good facts and opinions on how they work. |
Yosef Autaal
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
88
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 11:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
So my final point is going to be about the Rep modules themselves. Why is there only one version of the infantry rep modules and why do they come as standard on the vehicle, Why not give us variants as there are with other modules and allow us to skill into them ourselves to use them and earn bonusGÇÖs for the modules effectiveness. I can imagine the reason for this is you did not want the Infantry rep tool to end up on any other vehicle then the LAV (dropship/HAV with infantry rep tool would be very powerful tool) although if this is true why not add similar mechanics to that found in eve with the covert cloaks, the module would have a CPU need that is inflated by a large amount but the Logi LAVS would have a bonus that reduces the cpu need of the module by 99% this would mean the module can only be fit on vehicles that you decide. This would give something players to invest SP into and add additional fit choices.
Variants of the repair module can include different lock speeds/lock distances/rep amounts and a possibly variation could be an AoE instead of a lock on, with the AoE variation the rep amount would be greatly reduced or the time between reps would be larger, other possibly variations combinations are quick pulses but small amount of hp rep(used for continually repping in battle), slow pulses but large amounts of reps(used for swopping into fights and pulsing of a rep before moving to next location)
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Lorhak Gannarsein
DUST University
Ivy League
14
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Posted - 2013.05.28 11:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Eh. I just use my Limbus to taxi friendlies. And murder-taxi enemies.
About 4K HP doesn't go down easily. |
G Torq
ALTA B2O
146
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Posted - 2013.05.28 11:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
A small set of additional comments from a dedicated LogiLAV driver (Caldari's Charybdis)
- When aiming off-center, aim snaps back to default on getting lock-on, often breaking lock (supposed to have been fixed?)
- When aiming slightly backwards, moving the left stick forward can cause the LAV to drive backwards
- When equipping 2 Shield Transporter (built-in plus regular), you cannot tell which is which in the module-wheel (top-one is the built-in) and when active, you cannot see on the targeting box, which you're using
- When loosing Lock while transporting shield, module does not immediately enter cool-down, cannot be used; can be manually aborted to trigger cool-down
- Absolute lack of Caldari and Minmatar Heavies (shield-heavies) mean that most players will have their shield back before you can get a lock on them
- Single tier of LogiLAVs, ScoutLAVs and regular LAVs make for limited options and play
On the last item, I see no reason why the Charybdis could not be closer to the Saga in HP, with higher tier LAVs for when you need more HP/CPU/PG/slots
Specifically for the Shield Transporter, some thoughts/options:
Make it auto-aim: Let it simply latch onto the friendly with the least shield (in percentages), but still require triggering
Make it multi-beam: Let us target more than 1 person
Make it quicker: Reduce the lock-on from 5 to 3 seconds
Make other versions: Let us replace the built-in shield-transporter with other shield-transporters or even other logi-modules (Vehicle-based nanohives?)
Make it target vehicles: Let it target non-Infantry targets, but with reduced efficiency
Note: not all of these should be applied together - I trust CCP to pick the ones most suitable
Oh, and create a fitting-skill for small turrets, that reduces CPU and PG costs on small turrets by 1% per level  |
G Torq
ALTA B2O
146
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Posted - 2013.05.28 11:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Eh. I just use my Limbus to taxi friendlies. And murder-taxi enemies.
About 4K HP doesn't go down easily.
You've sorta proven the main issue with LogiLAVs - they are being applied for their higher HP/resists, not for their Logi gear.
Basic LogiLAV should be closer to regular LAVs, with higher-tier options in all 3 branches. |
Jenova's Witness
The Unholy Legion of Darkstar
DARKSTAR ARMY
80
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Posted - 2013.05.28 11:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just make all vehicle reppers proximity based. This kind of crap works in EVE because ships have auto-pilot. We actually have to drive and the last thing we need is to fumble around with a bugged module. |
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