Slow them down more? That's crazy talk bro! Heavies are slow enough trust me.

The medium and light classes can walk backwards faster than heavies can sprint! Making us any slower would only further gimp us as a class!

The heavy should be able to absorb more dmg than now. Since we aren't effectively able to dish dmg out with an HMG, it makes sense that we should be true bullet sponges. I'm all for more damage resistance. It would help compensate for the medium suits that have the capability to amass 1k total shields and armor.

A consolation buff might simply be to remove the headshot bonus on heavy suits. The heavy head is so large and the suite moves so slow, there is no challenge or precision skill of a merc to hit a heavy's head. This could compensate for the heavy's relatively low HP compared to the max hp a medium suit can have or from their capability to have multiple damage mods.

If the heavy is to serve only as a defensive meatshield compared to suits with 1k shield and armor or full dmg mods, CCP, let the heavy be able to absorb massive amounts of dmg to be a true meat shield.

Being able to absorb two magazines of any light or small arms weapon would suffice, even if we have a little slower movement. This might compensate for the HMG's horrible range. It might actually help the heavy suit perform as it was meant to in PC.

+1

^^ haven't seen new redo of skill tree but CCP do above ^^

I agree that Heavies could use a boost to EHP, though I also agree that they should be slowed down more.

I think that Heavies should have as much EHP as MLT HAVs though to compensate for this, they need to be as fast as a tree stump. They should be a situational suit that gets dropped off at the point where they are going to be defending and they're not going anywhere else fast without a ride from a blue LAV. I've seen people using Heavies as slightly slower Assault suits and this isn't what they were intended for (IMHO).

Heavies should be the bridge between dropsuits and MTACs and until they have their EHP buffed, they will not properly represent this.

Maybe you guys would like to look at my thread? Perhaps the heavy section? On a side not: HOW, WHEN I CAME UP THE HARDENER IDEA, DID I NOT THINK IT SHOULD BE PASSIVE!!?

New dropsiuit class bonuses(./?) *COMPLETE*

When are blaster turrets in interior places? Plus, I feel that you should be able to easily facerape the assault given the right circumstances.

If you want to have more EHP, you NEED to have a drawback added/increased to compensate. You can't have your cake and eat it too, no one should (IDK why CCP is letting the TAR scrubs eat it). I really think that the heavy is best off in CQC areas where there is no escaping them despite the fact that they move slower than tectonic plates (which they are much faster than currently and shouldn't be).

Also, I never said it should only be used once every 5 matches, it should be used every match, it is just that you're obviously not seeing the situations which are conducive to having a 2500 EHP (roughly where I think they should be) dropsuit with an HMG at.

It should take an entire squad to take down a heavy, though they should be slow enough that they shouldn't be a viable sole composition for a squad.

Personally, I think it would be cool if we had an option for heavies to "Anchor" similar to POS guns/mods in Eve. Make it so that they are immobile, though they get increases to their turn speed.

As it is now, scrubs still run around in Heavies like they are Assault suits, they shouldn't even have that thought due to the ridiculously slow speed.

Buff Heavy EHP, Nerf Heavy Speed.

^^ O.O OH GOD NO... IT"S HAPPENING!! THE PYRAMID QUOTING HAS BEGUN!!!

Every single whinge here seems to boil down to a need to learn how to fit your damn heavy suit.

Heavy shoukd take a squad to take doen, but not be a good idea for a whole squad of just heavies? Short of limiting them to sidearms-only that would be impossible, you'd be a moving wall capable of simply steamrolling through anything short of a HAV and making a wall around the objective.

Movement speed is fine as-is, bordering on a bit fast. EHP is also perfectly fine if you have any clue how to fit your suit (even the meta 0 variants have just shy of 1k EHP before skills and mods) and learn to play (this is not Call of Halo, learn to utilize cover and stop standing around in open fields; if you don't, I will happily plink away the two+ mags it takes my sniper rifle to kill you).

The heavy is fine, the PEBCAK. Learn to fit your suit, learn to play Dust, and learn to work as a team instead of flailing about for a solo pwn-machine.

I'm not sure what your first paragraph actually meant. It didn't seem to be relevant to the OP's original post.

With your second paragraph; if moving at a turtle's pace is too fast, then the heavy may very well move too fast. The EHP of 1336k is what the Prototype Sentinal suit capability without passive skills. This would be fine on any heavy if medium suits were not also capable of having 1k EHP which the basic prototype suits are near. The logistics suits are capable of having over 1k ehp because they get a lot of high and low slots for def of dmg mods. This means that the sentinel prototype can only absorb approximately 10 more bullets from an assault rifle compared to a full defended medium suit. This makes the heavy's EHP ineffective when it only takes around 10 more AR bullets to do run out of health.

As for your third paragraph; I'll think you'll find that people have learned to fit their heavy suit and that's why they understand that it is a weak suit in comparison.

By the way, if it takes you more than two mags to kill anyone with a sniper rifle, you should learn to fit your suit, cause damn...


Why did the heavy cross the road? Because he knew Geirskoegul sucks at sniping. Is the heavy too fast for ya keep up with? Are you aiming at heads or the ground behind the heavy? These bullets aren't lock on. You actually have to aim

Someone really wants a bulky Assault suit. I am willing to be you're one of the guys that run around in a Heavy with a GLU. As of right now, we have only two Heavy weapons and only heavies can fit them.

Forge Gun: The anti-material SR of Dust.
HMG: CQC handheld belt-fed chaingun of doom.

Your team will have the most "efficacy" if you're using the weapons that only you can use (detailed above) which would indicate that you are best off killing enemy installations/vehicles from a good vantage point with the Forge Gun or defending CQC areas near objectives by belt feeding death to reddots.

Stop trying to paint the Heavy as a bulky Assault suit.

You're missing something though, we don't have LMGs in Dust, we have HMGs in Dust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_machine_gun

Let's see someone move with a squad with a Ma-Deuce carrying it while firing to provide suppressive fire.

Also, all caps do not a good point make. You may want to calm down, high blood pressure can be deadly.

it needs something, but that's a huge percentage.

here's my issue: if i point my ar at a suit within optimal, i get 110% against armour and against shields, why don't i get those kinds of numbers when i'm looking down my hmg scope?

Apparently not crippling enough otherwise I wouldn't still see entire squads of Heavies running around like they were Assaults.

But that amount does mean that when we get armor and shield hardeners (something I'm hoping for) that you can stack a couple on +skills that increase their efficacy (thanks CCP Remnant ) = >50% damage reduction.

20% or *25% seems resonable to me. (see post #71) *when I made post #71 I forgot to factor in damage mods.

Are you seeing through my eyes? Are you spying on what I see on my TV?

No?

Then how do you know that?

I have seen entire squads of Heavies running around with DTARs and GLUs within the last week.

Don't tell me I don't see what I see and stop trying to drag me into a stupid argument so you can beat me with experience.

Hmm.. Perhaps I should elaborate on my posts. Firstly, when I say Heavy, I mean Sentinel, why should this effect the basic suit? No other bonuses effect basic suits.

When I'm talking about the Hardener skill I'm talking about it leveling the same as all others:

CHARTS!!! (number is level) (going off of the 25% resistance)

1. 5% resistance


2. 10% resistance


3. 15% resistance


4. 20% resistance


5. 25% resistance

So in order to actually get the bonus you need to have actually put SP into it.

Thought about it, remembered something else that might make you happy.

Currently no one knows if it's a bug or intentional, but all Minmatar Basic Suits get +1 armor rep per second.

If it's intentional and CCP is planning on doing more things like this, then they could use my 25% scaling + a base of 5% on all Sentinel dropsuits. That gets it up to the 30% that you wanted, but only once you've reached level 5.

Have the Damage Resistance be to low caliber weapons and explosives only. So sniper rifles and shotguns still do normal damage to a Heavy. That solidifies the hard counter these weapons have for the Heavy.

So 5% per level for max of 25% as the Sentinel skill bonus. And when they implement Armor Hardeners 10% per Complex hardener, x4, plus 5% per skill level to hardener module efficacy is 75% total damage reduction. At the current 400 armor and max skills that's roughly 2000 EHP against low caliber weapons (AR's, MD's, SMG's, etc) but still only 500 EHP against high caliber weapons (shotguns and sniper rifles).

That makes the heavy frightening to Assaults, but easily killable by SR and Shotgun scouts.

Because when comparing the In Game HMG to realistic military weapons it comes up closer to a LMG than a HMG.

A real life HMG, otherwise known as a the M61 Vulcan, weighs 250 pounds and fires 20 mm rounds at 6000 RPM at a speed of ~1050 m/s with an effective point range out to 1.5 kilometers and a maximum range well beyond that.

A real life LMG, otherwise known as the Minigun, weighs 80 pounds and fires NATO 7.62 mm rounds at 2000 - 4000 RPM at a speed of ~800 m/s with an effective point range out to 1000 meters and a maximum range of 2 kilometers.

Which one sounds like what we have in the game? The only thing our In Game HMG has in common with the M61 Vulcan is the weight...

So basically you want everyone else to use more tactics, while the heavy itself requires less tactics?

Please, do New Eden a favor and kill yourself, your clone is obviously defective

No such thing as a good heavy who uses no tactic

Then why have proto basic suits? The basic can be useful. If I want to run two hi slots on my heavy guess what? I need to go proto basic. I think the solution is just increase base hp to 1000 and just disperse it to shield and armor based on race and add another utility based on race as well. Ie amarr 400 shield and 600armor and an extra high. Gallente the same but with a low. Caldari suit shield600 armor 400 extra high. Winmatar 500 and 500 with an equipment slot.


Edit: you could argue switching amarr and gallente but so far gallente seem to get extra lows while amarr gets even highs and lows

Im not apposed to this but it would need lots of balance work 35% res is probably to high. Better to low ball it at first and then increase as needed. Might need to make heavys slower as well.

The heavy also needs turning speed increased slightly......just enough so it is possible to follow a target......right now you just get circle strafed to death

Losing 1/3 plus of damage (35%) is excessive but a change in the that direction is needed for heavies to be as advertised.

IMO, when they move the bonuses down to Basic dropsuits, the basic should get a "+2% Damage Resistance per Level". That's a meaningful bonus, which wont outright ruin anything, and will encourage people going to level V before jumping up to Sentinel.

Now if only we could get a meaningful Sentinel bonus....

Agreed. Heavies don't need to be any slower. As long as they are the slowest class, that's should be good enough.

just give heavies WP for suppressing enemies and taking damage
increase resistance when being healed by a logistics don't just increase the heavies ability to act alone

the logistics class is practically made to cover most of the heavies shortcomings

low on health have a logi heal you
you died get revived with 80 percent of your armor
ran out of ammo logi got you covered with nano hives and can give you a slight repair with certain nano hives

also point defense does not mean to stay at one objective it means to stay at one point and fire from that one point use an lav to get to a spot and stay in that spot

also most heavies need to learn to play
i see to many heavies running across open areas
not firing while close to cover
getting tunnel syndrome and only shooting in one direction when you can see 4 red dots on radar coming from other directions

i just went through the market and made a couple calculations. the max fire rate on the tac rifle is 780 rpm (might not be exact.) that's 13 bullets in a second (and no, mashing r1 13 times a second is not hard for a good fpser. i can cap out the 1000 rpm on the maggie in borderlands 2 if i feel like it.) each of which deal 78 points of damage. 13x78=1014. 1014 damage a second on a light weapon is already pretty ridiculous. with 2 damage mods and full pro, you can get that up to 1348 damage per second. meaning i can flank a supertanked logi or a fully tanked heavy and kill them in less than a second. now, lets take the proto hmg (which is designed to obliterate infantry) and figure out its dps. the rof is 2000 rpm, which equates to 33 shots per second. 33x19.4=604.2. 2 mods and full pro will get that up to 851 damage per second. whoever thought it was a good idea to give an assault rifle nearly double the damage of a MINIGUN should be fired right now. and its not like the recoil makes a difference if you know what you're doing. you wanna know what the strategy used by PXRXO, pink fluffy bounty hunters, imperfects, and everyone else that goes 20-0 with this disgrace to competitive gaming is? get sharpshooter 5, turn aim assist on, and mash the trigger at shotgun range. great job, ccp. your buffing of the tar has resulted in the only weapon more overpowered than dual wield fmg9s (aka what made mw3 garbage).

God this topic keeps getting necro'd. Its a poor idea that doesnt think far enough to how its going to completely unbalnce the heavy to other suits.

If we go by your thinking, Assault suits should get... a bonus to accuracy? logi... some support/agility bonus? Scouts... range bonus, speed?

The heavy is in a good place right now. We already have more tank than anyone else, and devestating weapons. Leave well enough alone. Once the racial suits are out and we have all the vairiables to look at then we can say if changes need to be made.
As it is the basic heavy is solid and dependable. It doesnt need to be broken by adding in whimsical wants from players that can only see what effects themselfs.

Honestly if I could put a HMG on a proto caldari logi I'd leave the heavy suit so fast. Way faster, self rep, equipment, small hit box and still 1000+HP with all the CPU and pg necessary for anything!!! Now that's a suit

looking at the math @ 30 % a full clip from AR would still do 1302 dmg more than enough to kill all but deeply skilled (sp wise) heavies i change my stance and lwwould like to see 6% per level of respective racial heavy suit.

honestly i think if they gave us the SMG damage I'd be happy. It could be swung as Minmatar try to use the same caliber ammo for eveything,and that little boost in dmg would make significant difference at 2-4000rpm. The range definitely needs to be on par with the minmatar rifle tho.

This thread needs some CCP love..

This has been dicussed quite a few times already and CCP has made a response in one of them (sorry searched for some time but couldn't find it )
I think the response was that making the sentinel skill give some kind of a resistance bonus was actually a really good idea, but with the current HUD we have CCP are thinking that new guys who doesn't know that sentinels gets a resistance bonus would just think their guns are (or the hit detection) is really really bad when they're fighting a heavy.

So we basically have to come with some new HUD models that will seamlessly show players how good their gun is against the oponnent they are firing at
TIME TO GET SOME PAINT ACTION GOING !!!

25% to base hitpoints not base+mods. extenders get 10% as do plates

4* complex armour plates would prob make you slower than a basic heavy lol... and the heavy can fit dmg mods... and grenades

Are you for real? Wanting to buff a weapon/suit that can effectively take on most of a squad in the right situation.

So.. what are you going to do IF CCP listen to this ridiculous request, buff the suit, it becomes the newest FOTM due to its obviously ridiculously overpowered abilities, and then slam it with the nerf hammer after half the community ragequits?

Serious question. Think this through very carefully.

Remember the Type II? Its base eHP was very high (320 shields, 422 armor), and we could bring it up to 1500 with the proper upgrades. It was a bit much. I do think our suits are too weak though, and something should be done about HMGs. I rarely use them now, because they're just not as good as they should be.

the tunnel syndrome is caused by encountering an enemy who is in a smaller suit with more ehp than oneself, and having said target on the verge of death, knowing that if you let up on the bullet hose, the hp will be full in a matter of seconds

Does splash damage happen if it's a direct hit? Like if a gun had 1800 direct and 200 splash the total damage would be 2000?