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Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
551
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 11:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I expected it to be bad, but dayum, 4.4. Dust gets a solid 6 in my book as a shooter, and 9-10 for potential. Nevertheless, their main criticisms were perfectly valid, although there were some plain mistakes in the review.
I've been warning about the poor gunplay for months, and have said several times the game was released too early. It is a closed beta quality product now, and should have not been given out to the masses, yet. CCP can only blame themselves. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
554
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 21:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:You need to learn to read between the lines when people speak.
As it is, his score would be fair if he actually played it for more than a day. I'm well aware this game has issues.... but half that review is outright lies.
Main complaints were perfectly valid. Dust is a poor FPS, there's no way around it. And it will justly be judged as an FPS. If the FPS mechanics don't improve - like us FPS players have been demanding and giving them feedback for close to a year -, Dust will die slowly. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
554
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 21:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Is it really necessary to blame FPS players or EVE players for all that ails the game? Both views are BS!
The game has elements of both involved... and yes... it's up to CCP to find the mix. Don't be blaming people who focus on a different aspect than you just because you can't have everything your way.
If you want to be listened to try some respectful constructive criticism that would help the reader figure out how to fix the issues you report. Clue, saying "it sucks" is not helpful.
Frankly, while I had my mitts in EVE first I do want a fun to play FPS and I do want skill progression and deeper game play concepts involved -- or I'll get bored quickly.
A view that is not the exact equivalent of your own does not equate to stupidity or wrongness.
Skill progression, deeper game play concepts, end-game content etc. don't matter chickenkitten unless robust FPS mechanics are in place.
I and numerous other FPS players have been calling for fixes for months on end. Yet CCP introduces brand new bugs at launch, some of them gamebreaking for many players. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
554
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 21:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:[I and numerous other FPS players have been calling for fixes for months on end. Yet CCP introduces brand new bugs at launch, some of them gamebreaking for many players. Sure, and if you get past the fact that there are differences of opinion here and there you'll find that many folks with an EVE background agree that fixing the FPS would be a good idea... I'm one of them. I'd also like more so-called content and so on as well. I don't think anyone asked for new bugs.
Seems we agree.
But it is common that us FPS players are viewed as a nuisance on these forums by EVE players playing Dust (I've played EVE as well, but am an FPS player at heart), yet it is us who know how to make Dust into a good game - not MMORPG players. Yes, I said that. CCP has either decided to ignore some of our most vocal complaints, and ideas for improvement, or are incompetent at prioritization or FPS game design. Either way, I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the state of the game, and pessimistic about its prospects in the future.
That doesn't mean Dust should become a CoD clone - there's no way in kitten CCP can outdo what DICE or Infinity Ward can do with 10-30x the money thrown at their games than Dust. And I doubt many FPS players would even want that. If we wanted to play yet another generic FPS, we'd stick to BF3. I'm afraid many have returned already.
And the more we have bad but fair reviews like this, the fewer players we get. And it doesn't matter if the person viewing the review is an FPS player or MMORPG player, it is unlikely they will even give Dust the chance. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
554
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:But it is common that us FPS players are viewed as a nuisance on these forums by EVE players playing Dust (I've played EVE as well, but am an FPS player at heart), yet it is us who know how to make Dust into a good game - not MMORPG players. Yes, I said that. CCP has either decided to ignore some of our most vocal complaints, and ideas for improvement, or are incompetent at prioritization or FPS game design. Either way, I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the state of the game, and pessimistic about its prospects in the future. I think that cuts both ways. FPS players often view MMORPG style players as a nuisance and vice-versa. How about we listen to FPS players for FPS mechanics and MMORPG players for MMORPG mechanics? It's CCPs job to figure out how to apply the vulcan mind meld and come up with something good on both fronts.
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately I have little trust in CCP's ability to prioritize their game design goals due to the fact that after almost a year of beta we are still not even close to a good shooter.
Quote:Quote:And the more we have bad but fair reviews like this, the fewer players we get. And it doesn't matter if the person viewing the review is an FPS player or MMORPG player, it is unlikely they will even give Dust the chance. No argument there. There was also a thread with some young sounding guy finding it difficult to figure out what the game as about. No end of crapping on the guy from players here about not being the type of player we want. What the hell? We need to get new people in, have them keep playing because it plays well and is fun, and then have them develop into the depth of the game because they are seriously drawn to it. We can't expect them to spend a week reading up on everything before giving the game a try. Anyway, obviously not directed at you, but holy crap do we have asshats in the forum here or what?
I've written at length about the steep learning curve elsewhere. I specifically said CCP can't throw reams of text at an FPS player and expect them to read it.
I used to play EVE, and I read actual books and newspapers - yet I couldn't bother to read through the closed beta blurbs. And it looks like from the review footage the verbosity has been jacked to 11 in Uprising. As the reviewer said, we are expecting an FPS to teach us while we play.
But yeah, we need to be better as a community to welcome players. Dust University is a good concept, not sure how good their reach is, though. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
555
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 23:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:But it is common that us FPS players are viewed as a nuisance on these forums by EVE players playing Dust (I've played EVE as well, but am an FPS player at heart), yet it is us who know how to make Dust into a good game - not MMORPG players. Yes, I said that. CCP has either decided to ignore some of our most vocal complaints, and ideas for improvement, or are incompetent at prioritization or FPS game design. Either way, I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the state of the game, and pessimistic about its prospects in the future. Disagree. First, you have to know what constitutes a good game. I count none of the CoD series, or the BF (apart from 1942) series to be any good. Why? CoD is essentially a beefed up, dumbed down version of CS, which, IMO, is a lot more fun, a lot more fast paced, and incredibly addicting. The original still has 30k+ players fourteen years on. In essence, I'm challenging the casual FPS crowd on their claim that they know what constitutes a good game. CoD and BF have stagnated over the years, providing the same basic gameplay without any innovation or ingenuity, solely with prettier graphics. I can't classify any of the modern FPS games to be good. The shooter mechanics are all similar, the gameplay is similar, the only things different are some basic features, the setting, and (if there is one) the story. I find them fun, yes, but good? If anything, average. Well, Borderlands was good. Essentially, the "hardcore" FPS crowd these days don't have the faintest clue at what constitutes a good shooter, simply because they're used to the average. This may mean DUST is below average, shooter wise, but it does NOT mean you have the right to call first dibs on any changes. It does NOT mean you have the right to claim "I know how, CCP listen to me!". It does NOT mean you have the right to shout down EVE players on what constitutes a good shooter. DUST will be more like EVE than any shooter. Does this mean EVE players have more say? No. What it means that your claims of "I'm a hardcore shooter, my views are more valid" are completely idiotic. A lot of EVE players have played shooters. Most, if not all, EVE players who play DUST have played shooters. Does this mean, just because they have the "downside" of having played EVE, they shouldn't be listened to? Simply because they know New Eden much better than you do, they know how CCP does things? Get your head out of your *** and stop spouting absolute ****.
Nice rant, 9/10.
Funny how you seem to make the assumption that I think BF3 or CoD are the best FPSs out there. They're not. Those go to TF2, BF2, TO:AOT, TC:E and T2.
Having said that, BF3 and whatever the latest incarnations of CoD are have literally tens of millions of players. If you make an FPS and ignore how high the bar has been set, you're in for reviews like this. I'm not talking about graphics or destructible environments or zombie mode. I'm talking about unobtrusive UI, smooth gunplay, rewarding gameplay for rookies and vets alike, and lack of gamebreaking bugs or balancing issues. BF3 has massive issues, is a dumbed down version of BF2, but it works. Dust doesn't.
If you think BF3 and MW3 are similar games, you haven't played them. And Borderlands is not an FPS, not even close.
While us FPS players might not know how to make a great shooter, we know how not to make one. We've been screaming for more than two game modes, for more maps, better UI, better physics, balancing vehicles and weapons, and most of all, tighter gunplay for months and months. Admittedly CCP has made some progress, but at a very slow pace. And they decided to release prematurely, which is entirely their fault and error. They must have known that the reviews would skewer them - us FPS players warned them over and over again - yet they decided to ignore us. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
555
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 23:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:You need to learn to read between the lines when people speak.
As it is, his score would be fair if he actually played it for more than a day. I'm well aware this game has issues.... but half that review is outright lies.
Main complaints were perfectly valid. Dust is a poor FPS, there's no way around it. And it will justly be judged as an FPS. If the FPS mechanics don't improve - like us FPS players have been demanding and giving them feedback for close to a year -, Dust will die slowly. If you can't admit this reviewer has no idea what he's talking about, did not do research, and lied numerous times.... we have nothing to discuss; as you are obviously a trolling hater looking for any excuse to trash Dust.
Zyrus Amalomyn: active on forums since January. Roughly 300 posts, 161 likes = half a like per post.
Arramakaian Eka: active on forums since August. Roughly 600 posts, 555 likes = almost one like per post.
Nice try. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
556
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 00:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:You need to learn to read between the lines when people speak.
As it is, his score would be fair if he actually played it for more than a day. I'm well aware this game has issues.... but half that review is outright lies.
Main complaints were perfectly valid. Dust is a poor FPS, there's no way around it. And it will justly be judged as an FPS. If the FPS mechanics don't improve - like us FPS players have been demanding and giving them feedback for close to a year -, Dust will die slowly. If you can't admit this reviewer has no idea what he's talking about, did not do research, and lied numerous times.... we have nothing to discuss; as you are obviously a trolling hater looking for any excuse to trash Dust. Zyrus Amalomyn: active on forums since January. Roughly 300 posts, 161 likes = half a like per post. Arramakaian Eka: active on forums since August. Roughly 600 posts, 555 likes = almost one like per post. Nice try. So you resort to Ad Hominems instead of proving me wrong. Awesome stuff.
Funny, it was you, sir, who started the ad hominems. Besides, you missed the point: it was not an attack on you. My post was to demonstrate that I have contributed more and for a longer time to this community than you have, and my efforts have been recognized at double the rate than yours - thus making it unlikely that I'm a hater or a troll.
I've posted in several prior posts why I think the conclusions and main complaints in thereview was fair despite it's inaccuracies. Calling the reviewer a liar is another ad hominem - incompetent, perhaps, but I highly doubt he deliberately lied. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
638
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 09:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
JonnyAugust wrote:Spot on review. I used to post things like what this review talks about and now I dont have to. Saves me a bunch of time and stress instead of arguing with the fanboys. Now thousands of people can see the true face of dust while all the fanboys can do is preach to the choir.
That is an excellent point.
And maybe, just maybe CCP finally starts to listen to us, and actually acts upon our feedback. |
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