DUST Search - [Feedback/Request] Matchmaking, hear me out

Gawen Eadan wrote:

The matchmaking is horrible right now, plain and simple, I'm not going to keep beating it with a stick. I do have a suggestion on how to make it better without alleviating the quick matchmaking time as, if anyone of you were in closed beta, you remember how long it would take. We want to keep the speed, but not get stomped be you high or low.

People suggest doing it by number of kills, which leads to logi's being in prototype gear while in lower tier rooms due to them being easy WP specialists and not ships of war with how CCP would like them to be. Currently they can do both regrettably.

People suggest skill level but the amount of programing to to that would be horrendous on top of CCP's current workload, and even if they did implement it, matchmaking would take much longer than it does now.

Another suggestion I saw was Warpoints, which ends up with the good players getting kicked out of battle academy for example, long before they have the tiered gear to compete with the driving forces outside of it.

What we have now is a good start but it needs some tweaking.

My suggestion:
SP, we all get it passively or actively, grated you can chose to turn off the passive. My main point though is multiple tiers, this would make the matchmaking engine still fast, albeit slower than it is now, but any changes would be. I also suggest introducing game modes in each tier.

Start is 505 000
Put them into the battle academy they are in now, keep that but they stay in there till you reach 800 000sp. 300 000sp has to be earned, and if I'm not mistaken, its just ambush, and that great, all you need to do first is shoot people.

705 001 to 905 000
This second tier would add oms, give players the realization and time to recognize and get familiar with all the installations, this would hep with any infantry fighting vehicles, which would have appeared by now. Aside from the fact everyone gets AV kits to start, which are effective against the equipped vehicles at this time.

905 001 to 1 105 000
This would open up domination, allowing for the skills you just earned in using installations effectively, SD's are now acknowledged as lifeblood to your gun, and CRU's are recognized for tactical advantages. Now we have to learn to defend an objective. This also give the players a feel for tactical areas of the map where most of the mosh pits end up on skirmishes.

1 105 001 to 2 000 000
This tier will take some time, but you have the last game mode unlocked, Skirmish. This gets you spread out amongst the points, fighting off people from one side while trying to prevent flankers. By this time you could be using a basic suit with an advanced gun, or a tank with some reps or plates, even a touchy drop ship. By the end, you're looking at possibly an advanced suit, gun, and the knowledge to use everything on the battlefield.

2 000 001 to 3 000 000
Another huge step, but this is just a separator it will be explained later

3 000 001 to 4 250 000
Another separator

4 250 001 to 5 500 000
Separator

5 500 000 to 6 750 001
Separator

6 750 001 to 7 750 000
separator

7 750 001 to 8 000 000

8 000 000 to Freedom!

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Gawen Eadan Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 13	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:20:00 - [1] - Quote The matchmaking is horrible right now, plain and simple, I'm not going to keep beating it with a stick. I do have a suggestion on how to make it better without alleviating the quick matchmaking time as, if anyone of you were in closed beta, you remember how long it would take. We want to keep the speed, but not get stomped be you high or low. People suggest doing it by number of kills, which leads to logi's being in prototype gear while in lower tier rooms due to them being easy WP specialists and not ships of war with how CCP would like them to be. Currently they can do both regrettably. People suggest skill level but the amount of programing to to that would be horrendous on top of CCP's current workload, and even if they did implement it, matchmaking would take much longer than it does now. Another suggestion I saw was Warpoints, which ends up with the good players getting kicked out of battle academy for example, long before they have the tiered gear to compete with the driving forces outside of it. What we have now is a good start but it needs some tweaking. My suggestion: SP, we all get it passively or actively, grated you can chose to turn off the passive. My main point though is multiple tiers, this would make the matchmaking engine still fast, albeit slower than it is now, but any changes would be. I also suggest introducing game modes in each tier. Start is 505 000 Put them into the battle academy they are in now, keep that but they stay in there till you reach 800 000sp. 300 000sp has to be earned, and if I'm not mistaken, its just ambush, and that great, all you need to do first is shoot people. 705 001 to 905 000 This second tier would add oms, give players the realization and time to recognize and get familiar with all the installations, this would hep with any infantry fighting vehicles, which would have appeared by now. Aside from the fact everyone gets AV kits to start, which are effective against the equipped vehicles at this time. 905 001 to 1 105 000 This would open up domination, allowing for the skills you just earned in using installations effectively, SD's are now acknowledged as lifeblood to your gun, and CRU's are recognized for tactical advantages. Now we have to learn to defend an objective. This also give the players a feel for tactical areas of the map where most of the mosh pits end up on skirmishes. 1 105 001 to 2 000 000 This tier will take some time, but you have the last game mode unlocked, Skirmish. This gets you spread out amongst the points, fighting off people from one side while trying to prevent flankers. By this time you could be using a basic suit with an advanced gun, or a tank with some reps or plates, even a touchy drop ship. By the end, you're looking at possibly an advanced suit, gun, and the knowledge to use everything on the battlefield. 2 000 001 to 3 000 000 Another huge step, but this is just a separator it will be explained later 3 000 001 to 4 250 000 Another separator 4 250 001 to 5 500 000 Separator 5 500 000 to 6 750 001 Separator 6 750 001 to 7 750 000 separator 7 750 001 to 8 000 000 8 000 000 to Freedom!
Gawen Eadan Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 13	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:24:00 - [2] - Quote Now to explain why so many: Each tier can play with a single tier above it, and one below it, at the beginning these are close. lets get that out of the way. Now the reason it is staggered is because, at the beginning, each tier is at a little more than a weeks SP cap, which has been noted to be achieved in under 2 days, but the casual player, in more or less, a week. Passive SP becomes crucial here, this still keeps the extremely casual player in the loop, but attracted to the game as by next week with hardly any playing he has a new game mode. In the meantime, hardcore players that want to get into the game, are still given a taste of whats to come but not the full thing all at once, keeping them coming back each week. Now the tiers spread out a bit more, the gear people have can be a larger variety, and of higher grade, but since people aren't shoved in with the prototype suits, this gear gives them an advantage over a non specialized character, keeping in mind, the non specialized can theoretically complete every role "okay". The game modes were chosen in these stages and order to keep people interested, but also help find their niche. Is it supporting the front line or being the front line? Am I the bullet sponge or do I need to running around covertly? These tiered areas also a lot enough SP to experiment with what you want and should get into, without wasting A LOT of your time. In under a month you can junk your character and make a new one, trying out what you feel is more suited to you, after all, you have 3 character slots and unlimited PSN accounts, not to mention the ability to delete a character. All the while, still seeing all the modes. Finally no more game modes are added (assuming CCP doesn't release more, which they will, and in that case, insert or rearrange as necessary to climate players, and therefore adjust the order of unlocking.) The reason for these many tiers are related to what was stated above, "Each tier can play with a single tier above it, and one below it, at the beginning these are close." Now due to not at many people always liking the game, pick your poison, but someone, somewhere is going to drop it for one reason or another. The larger tiers will allow for the people who want to stay in the game, while not waiting too long, still being in the loop of what's happening on the battlefield with the gear they are using. By the time you hit that 7 750 mil you've been playing roughly five months, getting passive, hitting your cap now and then, getting the feel of the game, happy as can be. When you get thrown at those proto suits in the tiny last tier, you're close to them, those people with millions, the only difference between you and them, is they can fill more roles, as needed, compared to you. All the server has to do is look at your SP total, and match you up with the possible variance you are aloud to play with. This all comes together and keeps matchmaking reasonably fast, while increasing the fun factor of a game, without removing anything that is currently available to the veteran players, with the exception of utterly dominating the enemy. Now for the issue of squads and sneaking in. Veterans would sneak into low level squads and have the "new guy" be match maker, scrap that. The person in the highest tier will be the matchmaking barrier, they can join a match two tiers below them, allowing for them to get into matches easier, while the new character isn't utterly squished
Mad Proffeser MAJOR DISTRIBUTION 0	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:35:00 - [3] - Quote Not a bad idea, maybe a few to many tiers. Matchmaking needs something done to keep vets & noobs apart. The weekly sp cap could go away too if this was implemented. Or maybe a lobby system would be better.
DJINN Jecture Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 11	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:02:00 - [4] - Quote Although the idea on paper seems sound, it seems like you want someone who is new to only run with new players. They don't get the benefit of an experienced older player from this setup and may still have problems in game that can only be addressed by finding someone with some insight. As a solution to this problem already suggested by someone, I can't remember who, a squad based matchmaking system would work better. Those in a squad are grouped in matches, those without are grouped in matches. It provides more enjoyment for everyone due to lone wolf behavior from NOSQUAD players and SQUAD players alike and can still provide new players an opportunity to run with someone like CHICAGOCUB who is a great player (and on the top of the leaderboard) and has offered helpful advice to players who are newer or struggling ways to improve their game. The matchmaking system in its current iteration seems to already group players by similar SP levels. The problem people are having is when joining a game without a squad, they are often running around trying to be useful but without any cohesion. They don't stick together like a squad should which results in an uneven match where the organised side walks in and scatters them. They don't rally or group up or work together. They get on team comms to hear what everyone is saying but no one says a darn thing to anyone else that could possibly help them. I played a match with a squad all on team comms last night where 50% of the NOSQUAD players were on comms but no mic and no help. The other side had 2 full squads and you can bet they were all communicating. The problem isn't in the SP of the players, its in the teamwork. If I have a choice between running with a team full of squads vs a team full of squads I would rather do that rather that than take a squad into a battle with us being the only squad in the match with a bunch of NOSQUADS vs NOSQUADS/Squads.
DJINN Jecture Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 11	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:19:00 - [5] - Quote Without mixing newer players with older players I never would have met some of the guys I play with on a regular basis. I have friends who are relatively new to the game that I play with and friends who are old hands here. I don't think I'll ever want it any other way, to be of assistance to new players and to be able to get help from older players is something that this game needs. In Eve you start in a Noob system with noob pirates and noob ships. The Instant Academy Battle system provides us with this and is a good resource for new players. After you have graduated from the academy go find a corp by squading up with people who are NOSQUAD in battle, get on comms and talk with them, work with them to win. Focusing fire from 6 militia assault rifles on a Proto suit will kill it. If you are having issues fitting a suit, your corp should be able to help you with pointers. It will always come down to who can work well together so when you find someone who you can work well with, join their chat channel and squad up with them as often as possible. Two sticks together are stronger than 1 and 6 sticks together are even stronger. SP is not a factor in this, teamwork wins battles. If the matchmaking system limited SQUADs to battling against other squads the matches would be more even. Just because you have a ton of SP does not make you able to walk on water either. Check it out for yourself, go squad up with some people and run a few matches, keeping track of player makeup of the teams and results of the battle, if you see a couple of squads on the other team and on yours or not and how close the battles are at the end of battle.
Gruul Upgrayedd Dust-Bunny Suppliers 2	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:26:00 - [6] - Quote Good idea to help seperate players. Honestly how much insight are a couple good players going to be able to give you when really you just need more sp. Plus all the enjoyment of the game is sucked out fighting a full team of protos who are all squadded up and communicating. You can say what you want about getting help but that is what wiki and YouTube are for
DJINN Jecture Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 11	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:39:00 - [7] - Quote Gruul Upgrayedd wrote: Good idea to help seperate players. Honestly how much insight are a couple good players going to be able to give you when really you just need more sp. Plus all the enjoyment of the game is sucked out fighting a full team of protos who are all squadded up and communicating. You can say what you want about getting help but that is what wiki and YouTube are for I run logi and have more sp than a new player. I can't even begin to tell you all the things I need SP for because there will always be something else I need to do as I move up through the suits. FYI a proto logi suit costs 5mil SP. If you think that separating the advanced gear suits from the protos is the answer then think about this, 2 mil sp to get into a level 1 logi suit. All the equipment is 3x sp multiplier. If you need sp do some support role in addition to your assault role. The wp you earn from the support goes to your sp, not just the kills. You don't need all lv5 gear to give support, militia will do in a pinch and it is dirt cheap. Your only excuse not to use it is that you didn't think to equip it.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 473	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:43:00 - [8] - Quote Gawen Eadan wrote: The matchmaking is horrible right now, plain and simple, I'm not going to keep beating it with a stick. I do have a suggestion on how to make it better without alleviating the quick matchmaking time as, if anyone of you were in closed beta, you remember how long it would take. We want to keep the speed, but not get stomped be you high or low. People suggest doing it by number of kills, which leads to logi's being in prototype gear while in lower tier rooms due to them being easy WP specialists and not ships of war with how CCP would like them to be. Currently they can do both regrettably. People suggest skill level but the amount of programing to to that would be horrendous on top of CCP's current workload, and even if they did implement it, matchmaking would take much longer than it does now. Another suggestion I saw was Warpoints, which ends up with the good players getting kicked out of battle academy for example, long before they have the tiered gear to compete with the driving forces outside of it. What we have now is a good start but it needs some tweaking. My suggestion: SP, we all get it passively or actively, grated you can chose to turn off the passive. My main point though is multiple tiers, this would make the matchmaking engine still fast, albeit slower than it is now, but any changes would be. I also suggest introducing game modes in each tier. Start is 505 000 Put them into the battle academy they are in now, keep that but they stay in there till you reach 800 000sp. 300 000sp has to be earned, and if I'm not mistaken, its just ambush, and that great, all you need to do first is shoot people. 705 001 to 905 000 This second tier would add oms, give players the realization and time to recognize and get familiar with all the installations, this would hep with any infantry fighting vehicles, which would have appeared by now. Aside from the fact everyone gets AV kits to start, which are effective against the equipped vehicles at this time. 905 001 to 1 105 000 This would open up domination, allowing for the skills you just earned in using installations effectively, SD's are now acknowledged as lifeblood to your gun, and CRU's are recognized for tactical advantages. Now we have to learn to defend an objective. This also give the players a feel for tactical areas of the map where most of the mosh pits end up on skirmishes. 1 105 001 to 2 000 000 This tier will take some time, but you have the last game mode unlocked, Skirmish. This gets you spread out amongst the points, fighting off people from one side while trying to prevent flankers. By this time you could be using a basic suit with an advanced gun, or a tank with some reps or plates, even a touchy drop ship. By the end, you're looking at possibly an advanced suit, gun, and the knowledge to use everything on the battlefield. 2 000 001 to 3 000 000 Another huge step, but this is just a separator it will be explained later 3 000 001 to 4 250 000 Another separator 4 250 001 to 5 500 000 Separator 5 500 000 to 6 750 001 Separator 6 750 001 to 7 750 000 separator 7 750 001 to 8 000 000 8 000 000 to Freedom! I don't like the way you have it slowly open up game modes. BTW, the Academy is not Ambush only. IF I had to wait some 600k SP to play Skirmish, I would have left before then. Also, this is way too many tiers. you should limit this to 3 tiers max.
Gruul Upgrayedd Dust-Bunny Suppliers 2	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:58:00 - [9] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Gruul Upgrayedd wrote: Good idea to help seperate players. Honestly how much insight are a couple good players going to be able to give you when really you just need more sp. Plus all the enjoyment of the game is sucked out fighting a full team of protos who are all squadded up and communicating. You can say what you want about getting help but that is what wiki and YouTube are for I run logi and have more sp than a new player. I can't even begin to tell you all the things I need SP for because there will always be something else I need to do as I move up through the suits. FYI a proto logi suit costs 5mil SP. If you think that separating the advanced gear suits from the protos is the answer then think about this, 2 mil sp to get into a level 1 logi suit. All the equipment is 3x sp multiplier. If you need sp do some support role in addition to your assault role. The wp you earn from the support goes to your sp, not just the kills. You don't need all lv5 gear to give support, militia will do in a pinch and it is dirt cheap. Your only excuse not to use it is that you didn't think to equip it. So you think its fair for 1mil sp users to fight 10mil? How is that fun when you are laughably outgunned in everyway
Gawen Eadan Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 14	Posted - 2013.05.22 01:17:00 - [10] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Gruul Upgrayedd wrote: Good idea to help seperate players. Honestly how much insight are a couple good players going to be able to give you when really you just need more sp. Plus all the enjoyment of the game is sucked out fighting a full team of protos who are all squadded up and communicating. You can say what you want about getting help but that is what wiki and YouTube are for I run logi and have more sp than a new player. I can't even begin to tell you all the things I need SP for because there will always be something else I need to do as I move up through the suits. FYI a proto logi suit costs 5mil SP. If you think that separating the advanced gear suits from the protos is the answer then think about this, 2 mil sp to get into a level 1 logi suit. All the equipment is 3x sp multiplier. If you need sp do some support role in addition to your assault role. The wp you earn from the support goes to your sp, not just the kills. You don't need all lv5 gear to give support, militia will do in a pinch and it is dirt cheap. Your only excuse not to use it is that you didn't think to equip it. I run a logi, I went full Amarr proto into that since uprising, and before resetting goals into a heavy in chromosome, I was a logi long before than. I know how much it costs. It sucks really bad equipment wise if you want to play logistics now instead of killer bee mode.This system helps with the gun issues, if you were a logi against people with basic or advanced guns, with only a basic yourself, you would stand a much better chance in the matchmaking this way of surviving, let alone killing. Then when you finally open up to the guys with proto tier guns, you already have your tactics for picking your fights, and what you should run towards, or away from. I'm not saying my system is the one true and total answer, but its a step in the right direction if you pick certain pieces from it.

Gawen Eadan Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 14	Posted - 2013.05.22 01:22:00 - [11] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: I don't like the way you have it slowly open up game modes. BTW, the Academy is not Ambush only. IF I had to wait some 600k SP to play Skirmish, I would have left before then. Also, this is way too many tiers. you should limit this to 3 tiers max. The tiers could be reduced, I agree, but they were initially chosen with the fact in mind of what kind of equipment could open up to the player as their SP progresses, and what they have to defend against it, definitely reduced, but three is too little. On the subject of waiting 2 and 1/2 weeks for skirmish to open up, assuming you have passive sp and stop at the cap, it was staggered to introduced the game mechanics without shoving them all in your face, at the same time, you are being introduced to a new game mode each week to keep it refreshing but a much less steep learning curve. On a note, if you look at it, you could be playing Skirmishes in less than 6 days depending on if you start the Saturday before the reset, and you wouldn't even have to be playing that much. Arguably I do agree it is a fair bit of a wait, but I believe a needed one.
Gawen Eadan Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 14	Posted - 2013.05.22 01:27:00 - [12] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Teamwork does win the battle, and I see your point in every match I play, but two teams of 6 basic gear blueberries, vs 2 teams of 6 proto gear 10 mill sp's, who wins? The basics would put up a hell of a better fight than the NOSQUAD's, without a doubt, but they do not have the skill from playing the game for five months, or the sp to get into the gear that their opponents have. I admit, if a balance could be found between the two, being squads with squads and rouges with rouges, on top of a staggered sp train, without horribly increasing matchmaking, it would be a pair made in heaven.


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