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CCP, why did you downgrade the gameplay?

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GATQS The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 6	Posted - 2013.05.20 22:44:00 - [1] - Quote Dust 514 Extended Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfT_caE1KHQ I see from the many trailers you have are so spectacular (The trailers seem a lot better than the current game play) then i get into the game itself and i always get that feeling this game is missing some vitals; but i just cant figure it out!!! What do you guys think its missing or what else should be added?
WhiteMage7322 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 5	Posted - 2013.05.20 22:47:00 - [2] - Quote 1:55 Did that LAV just destroyed a HAV?
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 576	Posted - 2013.05.20 22:50:00 - [3] - Quote Both were made on the Carbon engine. It melted PS3's due to its high performance demands. The first vid was released in 2009, the second in 2011. They switched onto Unreal in 2011, I believe.
GATQS The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 6	Posted - 2013.05.20 22:53:00 - [4] - Quote Laheon wrote: Both were made on the Carbon engine. It melted PS3's due to its high performance demands. The first vid was released in 2009, the second in 2011. They switched onto Unreal in 2011, I believe. Why cant they just use the engine BF3 has? It works spectacular and virtually no lag!!!
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1049	Posted - 2013.05.20 22:56:00 - [5] - Quote Laheon wrote: Both were made on the Carbon engine. It melted PS3's due to its high performance demands. The first vid was released in 2009, the second in 2011. They switched onto Unreal in 2011, I believe. ^This! Right now, we're running a soon to be outdated software on hardware that's past its prime. Once they move to the Unreal 4 engine on the PS4, a lot of the stuff we've been promised will start to flow in. (assuming people don't QQ for everything to be watered down to CoD by then) This is one of those times you really have to answer with soonGäó.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 576	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:04:00 - [6] - Quote GATQS wrote: Why cant they just use the engine BF3 has? It works spectacular and virtually no lag!!! I, for one, actually prefer the graphics in DUST 514. More polygons, higher res textures, and the lighting seems smoother. Nowhere near PC standard, though, but that's kind of expected for consoles which are seven years old. Okay, getting into why DUST can't use the Frostbite 2. For one, it was internally developed by EA. This means all their software engineers built that engine from scratch, specifically for Battlefield. It is only used by games developed by companies owned by EA. This excludes CCP from using it. Unreal 3, on the other hand, has a proven track record with a number of games, having been developed by Epic, the same company which made Gears of War, and are quite famous for their relatively easy to use engine. On top of this, they are very open about contracting out use of their engine. For example, EA even used it a couple of times to develop Army of Two, the US Army used it to make America's Army, and EA used it again to make Mass Effect. Unreal 3 has a proven track record, and is readily available to developers who can't afford the time to develop a new engine from scratch. It was the logical choice to make.
Night Ward Ametat Security Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:07:00 - [7] - Quote GATQS wrote: Dust 514 Extended Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfT_caE1KHQ I see from the many trailers you have are so spectacular (The trailers seem a lot better than the current game play) then i get into the game itself and i always get that feeling this game is missing some vitals; but i just cant figure it out!!! What do you guys think its missing or what else should be added? Now thats a AAA game i would pay good money to play, not this cheap copy. They need to go back to that vision. I mean who the hell thought uprising would have been the release product in 2009. Talk about straight up lieing to peoples faces
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 137	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:10:00 - [8] - Quote Laheon wrote: Both were made on the Carbon engine. It melted PS3's due to its high performance demands. The first vid was released in 2009, the second in 2011. They switched onto Unreal in 2011, I believe. Pretty much this, the carbon engine was the home brew engine for dust then for some reason possibly it was not PS3 compatableso it swaped over to unreal, i can only hope that CCP are secretly making DUST on the carbon engine for PS4, the looks of the E3 trailer(the latter) shows impressive core FPS play, and the scale of the other video is huge. Iam not sure at which point DUST has become like it is a high health tracking shooter the Carbon builds looked far more like a Battlefield stlye of game so i would make me wonder if the game was ever like the videos this would leave me to believe there are 2 Dusts the one on unreal and the one on carbon its possible that the carbon version was killed off when it moved to unreal which would be unfortunate that E3 trailer looked like it would have been a great game. Ive been in this beta since second closed beta build and dont think the game has ever been like those videos
Night Ward Ametat Security Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:12:00 - [9] - Quote Ranger SnakeBlood wrote: Laheon wrote: Both were made on the Carbon engine. It melted PS3's due to its high performance demands. The first vid was released in 2009, the second in 2011. They switched onto Unreal in 2011, I believe. Pretty much this, the carbon engine was the home brew engine for dust then for some reason possibly it was not PS3 compatableso it swaped over to unreal, i can only hope that CCP are secretly making DUST on the carbon engine for PS4, the looks of the E3 trailer(the latter) shows impressive core FPS play, and the scale of the other video is huge. Iam not sure at which point DUST has become like it is a high health tracking shooter the Carbon builds looked far more like a Battlefield stlye of game so i would make me wonder if the game was ever like the videos this would leave me to believe there are 2 Dusts the one on unreal and the one on carbon its possible that the carbon version was killed off when it moved to unreal which would be unfortunate that E3 trailer looked like it would have been a great game. Ive been in this beta since second closed beta build and dont think the game has ever been like those videos Damn shame
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 137	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:14:00 - [10] - Quote Anoter thing some missed is this is a really old video of DUST http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED-YF-v7WCw

crazy space 1 Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1213	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:17:00 - [11] - Quote GATQS wrote: Laheon wrote: Both were made on the Carbon engine. It melted PS3's due to its high performance demands. The first vid was released in 2009, the second in 2011. They switched onto Unreal in 2011, I believe. Why cant they just use the engine BF3 has? It works spectacular and virtually no lag!!! They are going with unreal 3 becuase of it's ability to port games right into unreal 4, which is amazing and not out yet for any game. But 5 million polys rendered at once instead of 200,000? yes please.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4471	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:20:00 - [12] - Quote Battlefield Engine is owned by EA unless you are owned by EA they're not going to let you touch it.
Cpt Murd0ck Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 197	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:39:00 - [13] - Quote GATQS wrote: Dust 514 Extended Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfT_caE1KHQ I see from the many trailers you have are so spectacular (The trailers seem a lot better than the current game play) then i get into the game itself and i always get that feeling this game is missing some vitals; but i just cant figure it out!!! What do you guys think its missing or what else should be added? You know what I think is missing ? The ps4
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 439	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:39:00 - [14] - Quote WhiteMage7322 wrote: 1:55 Did that LAV just destroyed a HAV? MAV.. but yea it was hit by a ADS before the MAV killed the HAV but really.. looks like PVE which would be great. wonder why we don't have it the almost all of the vehicle is protected.
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 325	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:47:00 - [15] - Quote Join the support team fight for Dust's game play. This thread is focused on aim issue.
Spaceman-Rob Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 76	Posted - 2013.05.21 00:04:00 - [16] - Quote Wow, that trailer looked and sounded amazing, where did it all go wrong to end up in its current state?
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 459	Posted - 2013.05.21 00:13:00 - [17] - Quote Spaceman-Rob wrote: Wow, that trailer looked and sounded amazing, where did it all go wrong to end up in its current state? CCP are above-average dreamers with above-average convictions and a fairly transparent attitude most of the time. This gets them a lot of good will. They are not what I would call an entirely competent workforce, however, and my understanding from former employees of CCP is that their offices are laid back to the point that this isn't going to change anytime soon.
Donnerwerk The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 9	Posted - 2013.05.21 01:03:00 - [18] - Quote Ranger SnakeBlood wrote: Anoter thing some missed is this is a really old video of DUST http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED-YF-v7WCw ^ When a gama 4 YEARS ago looked and sounded better then what was actually released.... What has gone wrong?? who is to blame? Hand him or her over, the dust community will take care of that person
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4477	Posted - 2013.05.21 01:06:00 - [19] - Quote Donnerwerk wrote: Ranger SnakeBlood wrote: Anoter thing some missed is this is a really old video of DUST http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED-YF-v7WCw ^ When a gama 4 YEARS ago looked and sounded better then what was actually released.... What has gone wrong?? who is to blame? Hand him or her over, the dust community will take care of that person You can blame the Incarna Expansion, and the jita riots.
FarVision1 FALLEN LEGENDS 6	Posted - 2013.05.21 01:19:00 - [20] - Quote Cpt Murd0ck wrote: GATQS wrote: Dust 514 Extended Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfT_caE1KHQ I see from the many trailers you have are so spectacular (The trailers seem a lot better than the current game play) then i get into the game itself and i always get that feeling this game is missing some vitals; but i just cant figure it out!!! What do you guys think its missing or what else should be added? You know what I think is missing ? The ps4 Ugh. Four years ago? Tribes 1 was better than this current Dust and that was 15 years ago. Ps4 announce is April 10, right? And it will be here for the holiday season. soo.. couple more months hopefully.

Raze galder Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2013.05.21 01:49:00 - [21] - Quote I remember these trailers curse u ps3 for not being able to use the carbon engine hopefully ps4 will use it andif not then hoping unreal 4 can match it
Al Lopestes PlayStation Home Comminity Group 16	Posted - 2013.05.21 01:50:00 - [22] - Quote Laheon wrote: [quote=GATQS] For one, it was internally developed by EA. This means all their software engineers built that engine from scratch, specifically for Battlefield. It is only used by games developed by companies owned by EA. This excludes CCP from using it. Correction: DICE developed Frostbite engine.
Al Lopestes PlayStation Home Comminity Group 16	Posted - 2013.05.21 01:56:00 - [23] - Quote Night Ward wrote: GATQS wrote: Dust 514 Extended Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfT_caE1KHQ I see from the many trailers you have are so spectacular (The trailers seem a lot better than the current game play) then i get into the game itself and i always get that feeling this game is missing some vitals; but i just cant figure it out!!! What do you guys think its missing or what else should be added? Now thats a AAA game i would pay good money to play, not this cheap copy. They need to go back to that vision. I mean who the hell thought uprising would have been the release product in 2009. Talk about straight up lieing to peoples faces It called "Work in Progress"? right
Darkstar Militarius The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2013.05.21 02:04:00 - [24] - Quote Incase it isn't painfully obvious to anyone else, that first video is not an in-game engine. That entire video is pre-rendered. That was one of our first looks at DUST 514 way back when, well before CARBON was even playable. The second video is, yes, an early version running in an early version of CARBON. Idk about the rest of you, or what video you are seeing, but while there may be a pretty effect here or there, the overall engine is clearly, well, not good. The physics alone when he shoots that one bloke who falls against the wall is pretty damn hilarious. As mentioned before aswell, when we finally got a semi-working alpha version of CARBON shipped with the EVE Incarna expansion, it literally melted some high end GPUs and Comps. Not something that is going to run acceptably on a PS3. Overall, for our current needs, I think they made a better choice in engine. The Uprising graphics overall rival or better the ones in that video, except for maybe a pretty effect or two, and the polycount and textures are one hell of a lot better. Is there room for improvement, especially on a more powerful console coming soon? Of course there is. Is that old gameplay footage better than the current engine? Not a chance in hell. Look past that couple of pretty effects, and really look at what you are seeing.
Ryanki VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 41	Posted - 2013.05.21 02:29:00 - [25] - Quote I think it's more of what goes on, like theres a lot more action and coordinated movements going on, but in Dust its often a few HAVS here and there, squads going after the points and scattered infantry combat.. In BF bad company 2(never played BF3) there was a gamemode which essentially had a defense and offense, and as the offense capped the points, more of the map would open up and the defense would be pushed back. Essentially, it forced the teams into a linear push down a predetermined path, but it also lent itself to more concentrated battles that still had the ulterior goal of capturing points over scoring random kills. On the otherhand, you can also say that Dust is mutliplayer and lacks that sort of scripted atmospheric events, which that video is full of. Maybe if CCP adds PVE not just in simple drone bashing, but also maybe attacks on NPC human characters and installations as sort of spec ops (i hate using cod as an example but yeah) to give those little bits of "atmospheric battle" types
Donnerwerk The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 10	Posted - 2013.05.21 09:05:00 - [26] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Donnerwerk wrote: Ranger SnakeBlood wrote: Anoter thing some missed is this is a really old video of DUST http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED-YF-v7WCw ^ When a gama 4 YEARS ago looked and sounded better then what was actually released.... What has gone wrong?? who is to blame? Hand him or her over, the dust community will take care of that person You can blame the Incarna Expansion, and the jita riots. Further explanation needed. Incarna sucked IMO but how are jita riots to blame for the poor state of dust?
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 539	Posted - 2013.05.21 09:14:00 - [27] - Quote That looks... good. Smooth fps, proper LAV physics - although mostly fixed in Uprising -, it looks like a different game. A proper FPS. What I don't get is they managed to improve general fps slightly in Uprising, but brought huge lag and/or framerate drops in CQC. And we get stuck in terrain. These are inexcusable oversights in a release product.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 540	Posted - 2013.05.21 10:15:00 - [28] - Quote Darkstar Militarius wrote: The Uprising graphics overall rival or better the ones in that video, except for maybe a pretty effect or two, and the polycount and textures are one hell of a lot better. Is there room for improvement, especially on a more powerful console coming soon? Of course there is. Is that old gameplay footage better than the current engine? Not a chance in hell. Look past that couple of pretty effects, and really look at what you are seeing. I did look past the effects. The linked alpha footage looks much better than Uprising - but that's not because of the effects but because it looks much more playable. And this is purely due to fps. This is something CCP Shanghai needs to understand: Dust is an FPS, and in an FPS, fps is king. Pretty graphics don't matter when fps drops to 10 in close quarters, and isn't running at 30, preferably 60+, at all times. I understand CCP is new to making FPSs, but that excuse was old around fall. They need to prioritize their development efforts better.
NPA SAMAR Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 9	Posted - 2013.05.21 10:59:00 - [29] - Quote No lag on bf3 . Maybe on single player.lol are you for realz , trollfield3 is a imbalanced framerate droppin lag fest
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 540	Posted - 2013.05.21 11:02:00 - [30] - Quote NPA SAMAR wrote: No lag on bf3 . Maybe on single player.lol are you for realz , trollfield3 is a imbalanced framerate droppin lag fest I never said BF3 is the gold standard of FPSs. Far from it. BF2, on the other hand, is.

Donnerwerk The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 11	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:04:00 - [31] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: NPA SAMAR wrote: No lag on bf3 . Maybe on single player.lol are you for realz , trollfield3 is a imbalanced framerate droppin lag fest I never said BF3 is the gold standard of FPSs. Far from it. BF2, on the other hand, is. bf2 also had huge problems with hitdetection. Remember when being a sniper shooting people in the head, bloodcloud apeard and they walk away as nothing happend... or crashing servers with the jeep mounted tow, masacrating the other team with bombers on gulf of oman.... still had some gread times on BF2
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 314	Posted - 2013.05.21 14:28:00 - [32] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: That looks... good. Smooth fps, proper LAV physics - although mostly fixed in Uprising -, it looks like a different game. A proper FPS. What I don't get is they managed to improve general fps slightly in Uprising, but brought huge lag and/or framerate drops in CQC. And we get stuck in terrain. These are inexcusable oversights in a release product. The fps increase makes sense in context of some of the other complaints you might be forgetting. You know how people complain about enemies/other players not rendering? Well, if the engine doesn't have to render those other models, it makes for greater fps. Of course, the causes problems with actual gameplay, and it seems likely that a fix (forcing distant characters to render for practical reasons) would probably cause a corresponding performance hit. Meanwhile, that added detail that makes the models look nice and handles physics/lighting causes the framerate to stutter in CQC. The game renders the models at higher detail up close, and the engine can't keep up with those building in the back ground and the two guys moving quickly in front of you. The terrain bug I've heard is caused by optimization tool used with Unreal Engine 3 on terrain. Supposedly it's a known bug with that tool (it's possible you've played other unreal engine 3 games where you got stuck on odd spots in terrain). I assume there's better ones, or that hand-guided optimization helps fix it. I can definitely recall some wonky terrain in the Mass Effect Series and Borderlands for example. It might be as simple as rolling back the terrain optimization and using a different tool, I don't know. CCP are historically PC developers, as far as I know. Squeezing the last bits of life out a notoriously difficult console like the PS3 has been, no doubt, challenging. Other console developers have had more experience in dealing with the PS3, but even then, most of them weren't handling large online battles. I don't know, there are some frustrating issues right now, and some of them are related to the system limitations I think. Some other developers are probably more experienced with circumventing those limitations. Even then, Bethesda was sort of hosed with getting Skyrim to run properly on the PS3. Maybe the really glossy graphics will have to be a PS4 thing. I don't think "nice graphics + some predictive hit detection" is a workable situation for serious framerate and/or lag issues. Chromosome was pretty stable in that respect at least. If the endgame solution for fixing the current performance issues is making the game less shiny, that may be where it needs to be for now.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 542	Posted - 2013.05.21 20:51:00 - [33] - Quote Forum crapped, kitten it.
Mobias Wyvern Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2013.07.06 07:42:00 - [34] - Quote Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this......... Planetside 2 Coming to PS4 this year 1080p Ultra settings at Night Intense Open Field Battle 100 Man Infantry Objective Push Desert Infantry Line Huge Desert Tank Battle 100 Tank Convoy 150 man Air Raid 65/0 Kill streak in the air NC Montage Planetside 2 Machinima Factions Explained Why you should Play Planetside 2 From Vets


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