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Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
314
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Let's say you want to get into a logi suit.
To do this you have to train dropsuit command, then medium frame, then factional logi. I say eff that.
I propose something of a tiericide, where all suits at each frame are approximately equal and many have specialized high tech T2 variations. Allow me to explain.
Let's consider the suit types we have right now. We have assault, logi, scout, sentinel, and each frame size's base suit. The base types require only the factional base frame, and the specialized ones require a factional specialization skill on top of that.
Let's replace this with less specialized variations of each of these, at each frame size (possibly not heavy for some of them). So for each faction there will be a light, medium and heavy frame suit that gets some bonuses to some weapons, or to Hp amount/resistance, or to repair. There should be four or five suits for each faction that require only the "base" factional frame size skill.
Then, instead of advancing directly to a "better" prototype suit, we instead introduce "more specialized" T2 suits. For example, each faction will have a variant of the repair suit that requires the "Logi suit" skill. This suit will have more bonuses to repair, and more equipment slots, but may have damage penalties or loss of slots, or simply be much more expensive. Possibly a mix of all this. Said "Logi suit" skill is not factional, however use of the T2 logi suits requires factional frame size V AND the logi suit skill at at least I.
This same logic could be applied to vehicles, with things like a "[faction] medium aircraft" skill allowing access to dropships and "Assault Dropships" allowing access to assault DS of any faction with that faction's medium aircraft trained to V.
I haven't decided whether I feel it would make sense to require training light frame to access medium frame. It makes sense in EVE, but I'm not convinced it translates well into DUST.
Why is this better?
1) It reduces the degree to which any suit is really "better" than another, replacing them suits that are simply different.
2) It allows easier access to any role, but creates a heavy SP sink to those wishing to specialize in a given role.
3) It is more in keeping with the established lore of New Eden, and will make it easier to model player production of this equipment on the existing system in EVE.
4) It gives us a larger set of suits to choose from, with more tactical options even within a given role. Why shouldn't I have the option of a light frame logi suit or a heavy frame assault suit? |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
724
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dude, really? I just posted a similar idea. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
316
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Huh, so you did. Do I at least get points for having more details in my post?
Either way, we need to join forces, and help right this wrong! |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
726
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Agreed, the current skill structure is a travesty. However we will use your thread since it is much more detailed, as in having details at all. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
316
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dammit, man, I just posted in your thread that we should use that one because you posted it first! |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
726
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
To me it doesn't matter which one of us was first, but the one that better explained the concept. |
Val'herik Dorn
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
580
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Posted - 2013.05.19 16:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
They should do it like eve. Instead of three suits per tier you have one. With the max slots these suits then get bonuses from the corresponding skill.
Amarr medium unlocks (new amarr frame name) - that has built in bonuses from the original skill
Then you have the option the further specialize at lvl 5.
Assault suit unlocks (different skinned and named amarr medium frame) that gets bonuses from the frame skill and assault skill.
Thus instead of having three different levels nd thus different skins for each suit in the game you have one (per req skill) that can be more adapted to the racial identity. And as you level up you won't have to change suits just get better at the current suit.
Weapons stay the same becuase in eve the weapns have tiers unlike ships.
This would make the market simpler skilling into suits simpler and probably take out some of the cluttered coding that having this many suits requires. And you could actually identify suits based on appearence not just color.
Another thing this would do is free up ccp to have basic logi suits and assault suits instead of only the specialized ones.
I think iron wolf said something similar but I can't find it... stupid phone...
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Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
319
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
So I was thinking about this, and I started thinking "why stop with suits and hulls? Let's talk weapons!"
Now as far as weapons and mods go, I'm actually okay that they nixed the T1/T2 thing. It didn't make sense even in EVE. In no sense is a T2 blaster turret "More specialized" than a meta 4, it's just all around better. So let's stick with the three rank system, but restructure the skills around that. See, we know thanks to this post that DUST's weapons actually fit fairly well into the eight weapon categories of EVE. So let's proceed from there.
Let's say you want to use a prototype assault rifle.
First thing's first, you have to train Light Hybrid Weapons. This gives you access to all light slot weapons described as hybrids, but only the "standard" variants. When you train that up to V you can train Light Blaster Specialization. Now you can use advanced assault rifles and shotguns, but are still stuck at standard tier for sniper rifles, and can't fit a scrambler rifle* at all. Once you've trained Light Blaster Spec to V you can train Assault Rifle Specialization. This allows you to finally fit prototype assault rifles. Presumably each of these skills would come with something like a bonus to kick, damage, or aim zoom so there is a benefit to training them.
Why is this better?
1) Training a small number of base skills gives you easy access to try a wide variety of weapons. This gives you an SP-cheap way to try out any role.
2) Specialization becomes much more SP intensive, but also much more rewarding.
Why might it be worse?
1) Because with these skill bonuses we may end up widening the gap between newer and older players. Care would be required in making the bonuses high enough to matter, but low enough to keep an at least somewhat level playing field. One way to do this might be to make each skill apply only to weapons that need it, and make increase the cost of prototype weapons to discourage their use in pub matches.
*I take issue with this name, btw. In what way would rifling a barrel make a laser more accurate? |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
728
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Posted - 2013.05.20 12:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Since when does CCP not encourage cross training, they certainly started by making all races use the same attributes to skill into thei ships faster. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
359
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Posted - 2013.05.20 12:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ugh, this thread is totally TL;DR.. and it seemed so interesting also.
Umm yea Tiericide.
So my idea. Lower initial cost to get into a suit, (level 3) and then give awesome bonuses for going higer which then unlock the special extra things. So you get to try everything easily, but have to really dive in to get a good competitive benefit. |
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J Falcs
Bojo's School of the Trades
38
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Posted - 2013.05.20 12:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
FWIW |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
728
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Posted - 2013.05.20 14:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Ugh, this thread is totally TL;DR.. and it seemed so interesting also.
Umm yea Tiericide.
So my idea. Lower initial cost to get into a suit, (level 3) and then give awesome bonuses for going higer which then unlock the special extra things. So you get to try everything easily, but have to really dive in to get a good competitive benefit.
Too short, must read linky |
XV1
Challenger 4
14
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Posted - 2013.05.23 13:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Totally agree with OP as this is how players skill into T2 ships on Eve currently. I do not see why they made factional logistics and assault anyway. I like the idea of basic frames and vehicles getting bonuses from the dropsuit skills and would like to see the assaults/logistics/sentinels/scouts getting bonuses form both the standard faction dropsuit skill and from the universal Assault/Logi/Sentinel/Scout skill.
Simple fix to the expected reduced SP for more rewards is to up SP requirement of factional dropsuit skills and increase the universal skills to be even higher than faction dropsuit skills.
As I stated before this is exactly how the T2 ships work in Eve and it is a simple, yet effective system. Current system is silly anyway as all races seem to get same bonuses(such as Caldari and Gallente assault both getting shield recharge bonus). |
EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2013.05.23 14:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Dude, really? I just posted a similar idea.
Drake, the original idea starter!
Haha, really though. This should apply beyond dropsuits and into weapons. I am a fan of the multiple models of prototype equipment, and I feel that they do a good job of keeping the game feel different than EVE. I am not a fan, however, of "unlocking" 3 different levels of guns at 1/3/5. It simply makes too many guns and if I want to have cheaper versions of full-Proto layouts and I have multiple suits and have specced into more than 2 roles, 30 dropsuit fittings will fill up quick. |
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