DUST Search - [Feedback] The core of mouse aim issue and how to fix it.

trollsroyce wrote:

Do this test with your mouse to see the issue:
1) quickly sweep through the mat
2) slowly turn back through the mat
For me, on a heavy suit, the first does a 90 degree turn while the second does a 270 degree turn.

This is the core issue in what's wrong with aim in Uprising. This is most probably caused by dropsuit turn speed hard cap, whereas in Chromosome the same test would do a similiar turn on quick and slow movements. What this causes is a complete inability to do twitch movements with mouse: a mouse player aims in under quarter of a second on target, but because of the hard cap the twitch aim doesn't go anywhere near where you would expect it to. EVERY CLOSE QUARTERS AIM ON A MOUSE IS A TWITCH MOVEMENT.

So the underlying issue is dropsuit turn speeds that cannot be capped for normal mouse play to be possible. The solution is simple, if you at CCP are clever enough to realize the design standpoint is not functional.

The solution is to completely remove dropsuit turn speed caps. These should not be in game in the first place. They add nothing you could not do more beautifully by designing the balance around dropsuid run speeds instead. Scouts would be balanced as fast force projectors, heavies would be balanced due their inability to move between targets. Dropsuit turn speeds are an arbitrary, unnecessary limiting factor - they belong to mech games, not first person shooters - they need to go. The game will always be impossible to play decently with mouse as infantry, if you do not apply this fix.

Design dropsuits around speed, not turn speed. Turn speed is a wasteful, unnecessary mechanic that adds nothing to the game that would not be done better by just adjusting run and strafe speed.

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trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 391	Posted - 2013.05.13 14:00:00 - [1] - Quote Do this test with your mouse to see the issue: 1) quickly sweep through the mat 2) slowly turn back through the mat For me, on a heavy suit, the first does a 90 degree turn while the second does a 270 degree turn. This is the core issue in what's wrong with aim in Uprising. This is most probably caused by dropsuit turn speed hard cap, whereas in Chromosome the same test would do a similiar turn on quick and slow movements. What this causes is a complete inability to do twitch movements with mouse: a mouse player aims in under quarter of a second on target, but because of the hard cap the twitch aim doesn't go anywhere near where you would expect it to. EVERY CLOSE QUARTERS AIM ON A MOUSE IS A TWITCH MOVEMENT. So the underlying issue is dropsuit turn speeds that cannot be capped for normal mouse play to be possible. The solution is simple, if you at CCP are clever enough to realize the design standpoint is not functional. The solution is to completely remove dropsuit turn speed caps. These should not be in game in the first place. They add nothing you could not do more beautifully by designing the balance around dropsuid run speeds instead. Scouts would be balanced as fast force projectors, heavies would be balanced due their inability to move between targets. Dropsuit turn speeds are an arbitrary, unnecessary limiting factor - they belong to mech games, not first person shooters - they need to go. The game will always be impossible to play decently with mouse as infantry, if you do not apply this fix. Design dropsuits around speed, not turn speed. Turn speed is a wasteful, unnecessary mechanic that adds nothing to the game that would not be done better by just adjusting run and strafe speed.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 823	Posted - 2013.05.13 14:27:00 - [2] - Quote Riiight, so you can have a big ****ing advantage over a DS 3 user?
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 391	Posted - 2013.05.13 14:31:00 - [3] - Quote Nope, I want a decent mouse support so that the game doesnt feel like MechWarrior but more akin to Counter-Strike, like it did back in Chromosome. I bought a PS3 for the game because of the promise of mouse support and because I love EVE. I got majorly screwed by a functional mouse support not making it into the final release from Chromosome.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 391	Posted - 2013.05.13 15:03:00 - [4] - Quote Why was the mouse screw up left undocumented in patch notes? Had I known about infantry becoming useless for me, I would have specced tanks. This is enough reason for me to ask for a reimbursement of sp contrary to all my believes about the sandbox: if you rule a control method harshly out of all infantry roles, at least give a respec option to play tanks where speeds are clearly capped.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 391	Posted - 2013.05.13 15:29:00 - [5] - Quote As an analogy for what this would mean to DS3 users so you can easier understand the issue: If the controls were such, that tilting the stick full would turn twice as fast as tilting it halfway in Chromosome, a stealth patch without any warning was made in Uprising so, that tilting the stick full would now only make it move the same speed as tilting it halfway. Now if you have played your whole age with the controls being so, that tilting the stick full would give a faster turn than tilting it halfway, you would be seriously pissed. You would probably move on into another game, where tilting the stick full means full speed, as is the convention in the whole gaming genre. Mouse has gotten this excact treatment. Fast movement across the pad is only registered as medium speed movement, like how it is in tank / mech games. Not like it is done in every single FPS game with mouse support out there. In practise this makes the aim work inconsistently, as you never "feel" what speed you can try to aim not to be screwed up by the limit. You can pick one zone of comfort: aim at a sensitivity that works for long range sniping, but you cannot aim at all in close range as with the sensitivity none of your fast swipes are registered. Use the tac AR with scope, but you cannot use it close range as the sensitivity which works with scope will not register fast movements as "fast". This leaves only a few competitive roles you can play, based on picking the ones that don't require scoping: tank and shotgun scout (scout turn speed cap is actually almost playable on mouse). Heavy suits are right out of the window, as the cap hits at 1/4 of regular twitch mouse speeds and wrecks any chance of aiming. I would like to have the choise to respec in one of the roles that still can be played with twitch mouse. The mouse changes went on undocumented and made Dust514 unplayable in the release build for 90% of the roles, but knowing some roles can still be played "normally" on a mouse makes me want this respec. Also, these kinds of changes need to be documented in the future (CSM take heed). If a control scheme is thrown out the window by bad design choise, the least the developers should do is give and advance warning so players can find a niche they can still play with the controller.
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 140	Posted - 2013.05.13 16:26:00 - [6] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Riiight, so you can have a big ****ing advantage over a DS 3 user? You have USB ports, buy a mouse and keyboard and you too can have an 'advantage'. Crippling the rest of us for your shortcomings is not the way to keep customers.
Plastic-Jesus The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 3	Posted - 2013.05.13 17:16:00 - [7] - Quote Zyrus Amalomyn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Riiight, so you can have a big ****ing advantage over a DS 3 user? You have USB ports, buy a mouse and keyboard and you too can have an 'advantage'. Crippling the rest of us for your shortcomings is not the way to keep customers. People just like to complain. They can use a mouse and keyboard too, just go get a cheap kb\m and you're all set. Its just like with wheels for racing games, its just another method to control the game and anyone can get one.
Cinnamon267 The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 53	Posted - 2013.05.13 22:31:00 - [8] - Quote Zyrus Amalomyn wrote: Cosgar wrote: Riiight, so you can have a big ****ing advantage over a DS 3 user? You have USB ports, buy a mouse and keyboard and you too can have an 'advantage'. Crippling the rest of us for your shortcomings is not the way to keep customers. Gimping control schemes isn't a good way of keeping consumers, either. Mouse should have never been in this game in the first place. If they wanted to appeal to EVE players, get a time machine and go back to when they thought it was a good idea for it to be console, and then cancel it and make it for PC. Having both control schemes isn't doing anyone any good. It sucks for both parties. No one can win. Get rid of it. EVE players don't like it? Their problem.
XiBravo TeamPlayers EoN. 32	Posted - 2013.05.13 22:53:00 - [9] - Quote Being the first mouse supported console shooter attracted many players to this game, but the mouse (and keyboard) are not really supported, more like crudely added to a ds3 game... The ol' bait n switch
Starfan6969 Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.14 03:03:00 - [10] - Quote I played this a few months ago and absolutely loved it! I come back only to find it nearly unplayable, at first I thought it was just my sensitivity so i put it to 100. That was waaaay to fast, so i bumped it down a notch to 90 and it was too slow again. I was dying left and right just because I couldn't track the target properly. And don't even get me started with turrets in this game.... OMG and I thought infantry controls were bad! It takes like 8 sweeps of my mouse to turn it 180 degrees!!

infinite lo0p Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.05.15 16:56:00 - [11] - Quote trollsroyce wrote: Do this test with your mouse to see the issue: 1) quickly sweep through the mat 2) slowly turn back through the mat For me, on a heavy suit, the first does a 90 degree turn while the second does a 270 degree turn. This is the core issue in what's wrong with aim in Uprising. This is most probably caused by dropsuit turn speed hard cap, whereas in Chromosome the same test would do a similiar turn on quick and slow movements. What this causes is a complete inability to do twitch movements with mouse: a mouse player aims in under quarter of a second on target, but because of the hard cap the twitch aim doesn't go anywhere near where you would expect it to. EVERY CLOSE QUARTERS AIM ON A MOUSE IS A TWITCH MOVEMENT. So the underlying issue is dropsuit turn speeds that cannot be capped for normal mouse play to be possible. The solution is simple, if you at CCP are clever enough to realize the design standpoint is not functional. The solution is to completely remove dropsuit turn speed caps. These should not be in game in the first place. They add nothing you could not do more beautifully by designing the balance around dropsuid run speeds instead. Scouts would be balanced as fast force projectors, heavies would be balanced due their inability to move between targets. Dropsuit turn speeds are an arbitrary, unnecessary limiting factor - they belong to mech games, not first person shooters - they need to go. The game will always be impossible to play decently with mouse as infantry, if you do not apply this fix. Design dropsuits around speed, not turn speed. Turn speed is a wasteful, unnecessary mechanic that adds nothing to the game that would not be done better by just adjusting run and strafe speed. Glad I found this thread, I was having a hard time understanding wtf was wrong with my mouse sensitivity. I am a PC gamer that was attracted to this game but ONLY if I could use a mouse/kb. I played for 5 minutes and decided it's not possible in it's current state. I promise I will not be the last PC gamer to pass on this game because of it.


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