DUST Search - How to better do the T1 ---> T2 progression.

The Robot Devil wrote:

I would like to see each suit get a skill based bonus starting at standard with two bonuses at advanced and two bonuses and a role bonus for proto. Militia gear would have a static bounus just enough to make it a viable suit to wear. I am using Gallante medium frame as a reference.

Mitlitia suits would have a 10% bonus in one area that is not dependent on skill level. A skill that would encourage putting SP into a skill and starting a specialization that is race specific. Gal would get a 10% armor increase or something similar.

Standard would have a 3% bonus per level instead of a static 10%. The standard level could offer a few differnt suits for each race. 3% to total armor, 2% to rep rate and 1% to hybrid weapon damage are three Gallente suits that offer different tanks.

Advanced would continue the specialization path and offer two bonuses per level. One suit could offer 2% total armor and 5% reduction in PG demand for armor plates while another suit could offer 2% rep rate and 2% range bonus per level.

Proto suits would have 2 level based bonuses and one static role bonus. 2% rep rate per level, 1% damage per level and 10% total armor. The last bonus would be the role bonus and stay static.

This progression from basic to proto would allow for different tank types for all four races across all the drop suit frames. The numbers and actual bonuses would need to be worked out by someone smarter than me. One militia suit with a static race specific bonus, three standard, four advanced and five proto suits per race all with different SP based bonuses that are balanced and race specific.

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Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 1040	Posted - 2013.05.13 11:07:00 - [1] - Quote Right now, once you reach Assault/Logi dropsuits you have no reason to go Basic. It looks like CCP were trying to make Basic suits the general type, and T2 the specialized type, however that failed. Here is how to make Medium dropsuits fit more into that: Give medium basic two equipment slots, make it have a speed between Logi and Assault. Assault, inherent 10%/15% (One of those) damage bonus, keep everything else the same. So basic suits are between logi and assault, while assaults are speedy and have High DPS, and Logis have more equipment slots.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 389	Posted - 2013.05.13 11:24:00 - [2] - Quote Pretty good idea agree on the general level. Have a like
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 299	Posted - 2013.05.13 11:26:00 - [3] - Quote Agreed. But give the armour suits an armour bonus and not a shield bonus.
Snaps Tremor The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 198	Posted - 2013.05.13 11:26:00 - [4] - Quote One (of many) reasons it failed is that people didn't give the basic suits the time of day beyond something to fly past on the way to your specialist fit. This is partially CCP's fault for choosing that name (what proud tryhard is going to run a suit that implies they're not the pro-veteran they know they are) and partially because most people didn't give themselves enough time to understand the new system before jumping at the SP sink classes they recognised from the last build, even though everything had changed completely. There's still a whole bunch of pointless redundancy in the market, which I assume was done deliberately to allow them to drop in new content as they think of it. That's not much use to people who are playing, or starting to play, right now. Whole thing needs redoing to better define the basic roles and then branch out from there, ie. base Logi should do what Logis are supposed to do, and if you want to augment that with some individual frontline capability, there's your specialist class. The other one can fire four repair beams out his ass whenever he bends over.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 218	Posted - 2013.05.13 11:48:00 - [5] - Quote I would like to see each suit get a skill based bonus starting at standard with two bonuses at advanced and two bonuses and a role bonus for proto. Militia gear would have a static bounus just enough to make it a viable suit to wear. I am using Gallante medium frame as a reference. Mitlitia suits would have a 10% bonus in one area that is not dependent on skill level. A skill that would encourage putting SP into a skill and starting a specialization that is race specific. Gal would get a 10% armor increase or something similar. Standard would have a 3% bonus per level instead of a static 10%. The standard level could offer a few differnt suits for each race. 3% to total armor, 2% to rep rate and 1% to hybrid weapon damage are three Gallente suits that offer different tanks. Advanced would continue the specialization path and offer two bonuses per level. One suit could offer 2% total armor and 5% reduction in PG demand for armor plates while another suit could offer 2% rep rate and 2% range bonus per level. Proto suits would have 2 level based bonuses and one static role bonus. 2% rep rate per level, 1% damage per level and 10% total armor. The last bonus would be the role bonus and stay static. This progression from basic to proto would allow for different tank types for all four races across all the drop suit frames. The numbers and actual bonuses would need to be worked out by someone smarter than me. One militia suit with a static race specific bonus, three standard, four advanced and five proto suits per race all with different SP based bonuses that are balanced and race specific.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 1048	Posted - 2013.05.13 12:11:00 - [6] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: I would like to see each suit get a skill based bonus starting at standard with two bonuses at advanced and two bonuses and a role bonus for proto. Militia gear would have a static bounus just enough to make it a viable suit to wear. I am using Gallante medium frame as a reference. Mitlitia suits would have a 10% bonus in one area that is not dependent on skill level. A skill that would encourage putting SP into a skill and starting a specialization that is race specific. Gal would get a 10% armor increase or something similar. Standard would have a 3% bonus per level instead of a static 10%. The standard level could offer a few differnt suits for each race. 3% to total armor, 2% to rep rate and 1% to hybrid weapon damage are three Gallente suits that offer different tanks. Advanced would continue the specialization path and offer two bonuses per level. One suit could offer 2% total armor and 5% reduction in PG demand for armor plates while another suit could offer 2% rep rate and 2% range bonus per level. Proto suits would have 2 level based bonuses and one static role bonus. 2% rep rate per level, 1% damage per level and 10% total armor. The last bonus would be the role bonus and stay static. This progression from basic to proto would allow for different tank types for all four races across all the drop suit frames. The numbers and actual bonuses would need to be worked out by someone smarter than me. One militia suit with a static race specific bonus, three standard, four advanced and five proto suits per race all with different SP based bonuses that are balanced and race specific. While you're at it, I would like it if: Standard suits = Current Advanced suits Advanced suits = Current Proto suits Proto suits = Something that doesn't exist yet. To allow for better customization.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 218	Posted - 2013.05.13 12:25:00 - [7] - Quote I don't care how they do it but it needs to racial and have at least 3 suits per level that have level based bonuses. The bonuses for proto suits should be low but it gets three and one static that is almost useless outside of one specific type of fit Scout Militia -10% smg PC/CPU static Standard +3% Speed per level Advanced +2% SMG damage and+ 2% speed per level Proto -2% scan profile and +2% radius per level and a static 15% hacking bonus Lots of suits for each race that tank differently but are balanced and perform roles that cater to play style or tactics.
stormyuk DUST University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2013.05.13 12:30:00 - [8] - Quote This is one area which confuses the hell out of me. I am still in basic skinweave suits I got in the beta earlier and the dragon scout suit thing from the merc pack. I am familiar with Eve but I have no real idea what race or type of suit I should aspire to. I guess this will be what a lot of new players feel too. I kinda just like the idea of Assault but reading threads on here people say don't bother just go Logi and I am still just lost. I still have no idea what race to spec into . Eve was much easier ( Which is ironic as Eve players know the learning curve is harsh) as there is so much guidance out there as to what you can do. Hopefully this will happen with Dust. One of the reasons I have joined D-UNI. Maybe in time there will be more support for new players.
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 87	Posted - 2013.05.13 12:32:00 - [9] - Quote The basic isn't a failure to my eye. You should not want to got back to basic model anyway once you got the upper tier. You find them useless because you have skilled directly to the Assault or Logi, breazing through the basic medium. Don't you think the guy which have 3 Millions Sp wont be happy to spend less for a Proto suit. Thing is, that Basic proto definately need to be worst in some points (like bonus) so players want to spend the 10X sp to get into some T2 variant. If you get to more benefit for the basic so that you want to use them even though you skilled in T2, pretty sure you wont see so many people spend 2M Sp to get a yellow suit with about the same advantages. It is a progression, don't forget that.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors Reverberation Project 441	Posted - 2013.05.13 12:41:00 - [10] - Quote Aren't the basic suits a little better for people who have only like 2 mill SP?

The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 218	Posted - 2013.05.13 12:44:00 - [11] - Quote Just because you can run proto gear ever match doesn't mean you should or need to. Why do people fly frigates in EvE? A pilot can be doing the same type of things in a destroyer or cruiser in about the same about of time as a frigate. There are times frigates are are better for what needs to be done. If the game is easy then move from proto to advanced or standard and up the challenge on yourself. Basic frigates are fun, cheap and they all have a bonus. I know this isn't EvE but the way the frigates are tiered should be how the scouts are tiered and destroyer for advanced and cruiser for heavy.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 1048	Posted - 2013.05.13 12:51:00 - [12] - Quote martinofski wrote: The basic isn't a failure to my eye. You should not want to got back to basic model anyway once you got the upper tier. You find them useless because you have skilled directly to the Assault or Logi, breazing through the basic medium. Don't you think the guy which have 3 Millions Sp wont be happy to spend less for a Proto suit. Thing is, that Basic proto definately need to be worst in some points (like bonus) so players want to spend the 10X sp to get into some T2 variant. If you get to more benefit for the basic so that you want to use them even though you skilled in T2, pretty sure you wont see so many people spend 2M Sp to get a yellow suit with about the same advantages. It is a progression, don't forget that. No. Its specialization. CCP wants you to get wider, not taller.
Snaps Tremor The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 202	Posted - 2013.05.13 12:53:00 - [13] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: martinofski wrote: The basic isn't a failure to my eye. You should not want to got back to basic model anyway once you got the upper tier. You find them useless because you have skilled directly to the Assault or Logi, breazing through the basic medium. Don't you think the guy which have 3 Millions Sp wont be happy to spend less for a Proto suit. Thing is, that Basic proto definately need to be worst in some points (like bonus) so players want to spend the 10X sp to get into some T2 variant. If you get to more benefit for the basic so that you want to use them even though you skilled in T2, pretty sure you wont see so many people spend 2M Sp to get a yellow suit with about the same advantages. It is a progression, don't forget that. No. Its specialization. CCP wants you to get wider, not taller. They want us to skill into Heavy? (I TRIED TO RESIST BUT COULDN'T THERE IS NO EXCUSE)
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 1049	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:00:00 - [14] - Quote Snaps Tremor wrote: Cat Merc wrote: martinofski wrote: The basic isn't a failure to my eye. You should not want to got back to basic model anyway once you got the upper tier. You find them useless because you have skilled directly to the Assault or Logi, breazing through the basic medium. Don't you think the guy which have 3 Millions Sp wont be happy to spend less for a Proto suit. Thing is, that Basic proto definately need to be worst in some points (like bonus) so players want to spend the 10X sp to get into some T2 variant. If you get to more benefit for the basic so that you want to use them even though you skilled in T2, pretty sure you wont see so many people spend 2M Sp to get a yellow suit with about the same advantages. It is a progression, don't forget that. No. Its specialization. CCP wants you to get wider, not taller. They want us to skill into Heavy? (I TRIED TO RESIST BUT COULDN'T THERE IS NO EXCUSE) Nope, they want us to skill into Titans.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 218	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:03:00 - [15] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: No. Its specialization. CCP wants you to get wider, not taller. Like this. I understand this isn't eve but this is a progression but it also allows for specialization in hull size and role. Proto is good but it should not always be allowed or be a must to have fun. The top tier gear should cost a lot of ISK to encourage lower tier equipment use and make the risk of losing a suit a cost that can't be sustained.
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 87	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:10:00 - [16] - Quote Well The way everything fell right now is : the more SP you invest in a branch, the better outcome you get. I agree they want us to get "wider" at some point, but they want us to feel we don't invest lot of SP to get the same thing, just a little differents. Because if this wasn't a "getting taller" mindset, you wouldn't see militia --->proto progression in guns, suit and everything else. So it is a bit of each. When you specialize in Assault over the medium basic, What do you get for your huge SP investment? Some bonus and some more slots in higher lvls. You will still probably use the medium basic Proto until you actually hit lvl4 or 5 in assault specialization. Maybe it is just me, but if the item isn't better for the investment, I just wont skill into it. By the way, when did specialization was the same as getting a more diversified "wider" field of expertise? Except the TAR.
Cat Merc BetaMax. CRONOS. 1050	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:14:00 - [17] - Quote martinofski wrote: Well The way everything fell right now is : the more SP you invest in a branch, the better outcome you get. I agree they want us to get "wider" at some point, but they want us to feel we don't invest lot of SP to get the same thing, just a little differents. Because if this wasn't a "getting taller" mindset, you wouldn't see militia --->proto progression in guns, suit and everything else. So it is a bit of each. When you specialize in Assault over the medium basic, What do you get for your huge SP investment? Some bonus and some more slots in higher lvls. You will still probably use the medium basic Proto until you actually hit lvl4 or 5 in assault specialization. Maybe it is just me, but if the item isn't better for the investment, I just wont skill into it. By the way, when did specialization was the same as getting a more diversified "wider" field of expertise? Except the TAR. Basic branches off into more specialized versions. Basic is general. EVE's way of thinking: You want to do a very specific thing? Invest more SP.
LittleCuteBunny Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 14	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:26:00 - [18] - Quote If you want to add more samage or shield recharge to assault class, giving them more H-power and L-Power slots will fix this but at the same time reducing the amout of H-Power and L-Power slots from logistics. Why? As of right now, the medium prototype basic frame is pretty much the same things as the prototype assault frame, e additional recharge can easily be obliterated by a logi by adding a shield recharge and the same apllies to damage or movement speed. Logistics do not need to have so many H-Power and L-Power slots, neither a bonus that increases the effectiveness of the shield extender modules, they already have an armor repair bonus. Players do nit eant fixed things, they want to be versatile and play around with modules, they could care less about a racial 10% damage increase, reload speed, ammo, specially with how assault class was literally nullified by CCP.


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