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Bring racial bonuses in line with intended purpose of each race/class

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ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 72	Posted - 2013.05.10 19:45:00 - [1] - Quote Reposting another thread I posted this in, hopefully CCP sees this: It seems to me like a lot of these racial bonuses are really counter intuitive to what you would expect given the themes of each race. First off, I think Assault bonus should be increased health, not shield regen (wtf lol?) Change assault bonus to +2-3% armor and shields per level. Logi bonus is good at 1 hp/s per level to offset that we cant repair ourselves. Caldari logi bonus: 5% shield recharge per level would make a lot more sense as a survivability increaser. Caldari Assault bonus: 2% shield extender efficacy per level. Minmatar seems all about speed and versatility (with no shield vs armor bias). So I feel like: Min Assault: 2% hybrid weapon reload per level Min Logi: 5% Hacking speed per level Gallente seem pretty solid as high tech PG/CPU reducers Amarr are all about armor so... Amarr weaponry is all charge based, I like the assault reduction to laser weaponry overheat, thats good I think. Amarr heavy is about slow and tank, so I feel like Amarr Sentinel should get a 5% increase to incoming repair sources (both active and passive). Also the heavy bonus of HMG feedback damage? lol?? Give Heavies a 1 HP/s passive reps as well, they need it more than anyone. Amarr logi, i'm struggling here, maybe a 5% reduction to speed penalty on armor plates per level? Or a 5% PG/CPU reduction on armor plates and passive reps per level? Or give the min assault clip size bonus since amarr logis are the only one with sidearm? Seems to me that this all keeps the bonuses in line with the classes theme. Right now I look at the bonuses and im just scratching my head as to why some of them are the way they are.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 145	Posted - 2013.05.10 21:02:00 - [2] - Quote I think you could up with entirely new bonuses, rather than shuffling current ones around. The passive armor regen on logis is good (both functionally, and because they can't repair themselves). I think the idea with the shield recharge bonus on assaults is that they can get back in the action (after they've recharged) quicker. However, it ignores the fact that no all assaults are shield tankers necessarily, and it seems questionably useful compared to something like shield extender efficacy (which makes for prettier numbers). I think assault SUITS needs to be retooled (and possibly Sentinel/Scouts as well) so that they noticeably differ from the Basic suits - since they don't right now. Keep basic as-is, but alter the specs so they make more sense or adjust to the class, and give rewards for specialization. Currently, Logis have rewards for spec... but they also have to do it to be logis at all. For assaults, I'd add 20 hp to their base suit hp at adv, and add 40 hp at proto. The portioning on this I'd split according to race. For instance, if caldari assault is at 210/120 right now, ADV would move to to 230/120, and PRO to 260/130. Since it's base, passives will still effect it, regardless of what they put in slots, making the gains relatively larger. Logistics base (C-1) is 180/90. So, the Caldari assault hp bonus over logi goes from 60 to 110 (close to doubles) from standard to proto. The fact it's base means that most of this advantage requires no slot apportioning. The fact that it's base also means it's relative value is higher, due to passives. Now a Caldari logi might still be able to use their TWO extra slots (Assaults are 4/3, Cal-logi is 5/4) to try to match HP, but it becomes more complicated. The passives on assault shields/armor bring them to 262 base shields, and armor to 150. That's 412 total. Logis with passives go to 225/112 or 337. This means on naked suits, with passives, the gap expands to 75 from 60. Now let's load on shields. Maxed shield extender skill gives you a 10% bonus, maxed Logistics suits gives you a 25% (let's ignore the recharge bonus Assaults get for for a moment). Assaults with all shield extenders will get 290 more shields with their 4 slots. Logis using all 5 slots (and having a higher bonus) get 445 shields or so (35%.. not exactly like in-game maths) for their trouble (and using an extra slot). Adding to the previous totals, that puts assaults at 702 total hp (no armor, just shield attachments) and Logis at 782ish. This is the status quo. Note that the Logis need to use an extra slot to beat the Assault total here, without one complex extender, their total drops just below that of assaults. Despite having more hp, both are very vulnerable to things like flux, and the assaults will have faster recharging shields (both by default, and a larger gap with bonus). An obvious point here is that the Logis can achieve "about" the same HP with the same number of slots, then use that extra slot for a weapon damage modifier, out-damaging the assault that went all shields. This is why a base-suit mod can fix things. With the modified suit hp, the assault base with passives jumps to 488, and then in the same scenario their shields with the same number of slots is 778. This is still very slightly lower than the logi, but it's parity. The logi has to use every upper slot (and benefit from a class bonus) to beat the assault on shields by 4hp. The assaults shields in this scenario will recharge faster, they have more armor (at base) underneath, and faster base movement speed. If the logi drops an extender to do more damage, they are then at a 80+ hp disadvantage against the assault. An assault dropping a shield extender loses less, because less of their capability is predicated on module usage. That's an example of suit buffing, but I think the bonuses across the board need to be looked at it. The Amarr logi seems to have more slot issues that aren't necessarily justified by the sidearm - all the other logis have 12 slots counting High + Low + Equipment at proto, the Amarr has 9... and a sidearm. Is a sidearm worth three slots? Maybe it's worth two slots? I think the Gallente fitting bonus is... weak compared to the others, and the Minmatar hacking bonus is an extremely specialized bonus compared to something like armor repair or shields (since it's combat). An armor-tanking Gallente logi bonus might be better (they'd be sacrificing speed to use it if it were attached to plates), but at a lower percentage than the 25% shield extender bonus because armor plates have so much hp. Minmatar I'm not sure about. An overall assault bonus to something like reload speed (all light weapons, or hybrids/non-explosive.. I dunno) might make more sense (since not all assaults should be shield-focused, but they should all be attacking), and perhaps having the caldari specific bonus be shield recharge oriented. The bonuses for all specializations need a look though, something to make them desirable. While I find Gallente Logis appealing in terms of slots for example, their fitting bonus is like a core-skill redo, and it's underwhelming. Similiarly things like reducing feedback damage for Sentinels are borderline-insulting as advantages unless heavy weapons are being introduced that ALWAYS damage you.
Ecshon Autorez Nova Tech Marines Hephaestus Forge Alliance 15	Posted - 2013.05.10 21:11:00 - [3] - Quote This wasn't just about racial bonuses, but also the blanket bonuses across entire dropsuit classes. I made a thread here that covered changes to the blanket bonuses.
ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 74	Posted - 2013.05.10 21:25:00 - [4] - Quote You guys have some great ideas, but I can't imagine CCP will introduce anything new... really why I was suggesting reshuffling the bonuses to the suits/races that they seem better suited for. As it stands right now, it all just seems really akward, although everything else is currently being overshadowed by caldari logi.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 145	Posted - 2013.05.10 21:38:00 - [5] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: You guys have some great ideas, but I can't imagine CCP will introduce anything new... really why I was suggesting reshuffling the bonuses to the suits/races that they seem better suited for. As it stands right now, it all just seems really akward, although everything else is currently being overshadowed by caldari logi. All we can do is make suggestions. But it seems like you need to be SHOUTING AND SPAMMING to get attention sometimes.
ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 74	Posted - 2013.05.10 21:43:00 - [6] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: You guys have some great ideas, but I can't imagine CCP will introduce anything new... really why I was suggesting reshuffling the bonuses to the suits/races that they seem better suited for. As it stands right now, it all just seems really akward, although everything else is currently being overshadowed by caldari logi. All we can do is make suggestions. But it seems like you need to be SHOUTING AND SPAMMING to get attention sometimes. Thats very true, we all probably need to be angrier and more slanderous to get anyones attention... oh well. I guess you just play within the bounds of the game and figure it out from there


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