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Doyle Reese
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I brought this up last night in another topic but I think it would be better if it was its own topic. The Logistics class is intended to be support class, so why do they have everything an assault can use and more? This makes no sense. Reducing the class to Sidearms only would make sense as they were never MEANT to fight with the assaults in the first place, the sidearm should be sufficient for self defense.
Programming-wise it shouldn't be too difficult, you have suits with a Light Weapon only, so it shouldn't be too difficult to do a sidearm only suit right?
(No I'm not an Assault guy, at least I don't think I'll be one) |
Stormy Geddon
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
43
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Just... No. |
Wojciak
Soldiers Of One Network
Orion Empire
13
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Then i would want a skill for logis that would allow them to use some light weapons like the SR, shotgun and AR. |
Doyle Reese
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wojciak wrote:Then i would want a skill for logis that would allow them to use some light weapons like the SR, shotgun and AR.
then use Assault suits. While it would be nice to have it all, it would just turn into "All Logi All Day Every Day!!" |
Wojciak
Soldiers Of One Network
Orion Empire
13
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Doyle Reese wrote:Wojciak wrote:Then i would want a skill for logis that would allow them to use some light weapons like the SR, shotgun and AR. then use Assault suits. While it would be nice to have it all, it would just turn into "All Logi All Day Every Day!!"
Then you go to war become a medic and fight only with a side arm. |
Doyle Reese
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wojciak wrote:Doyle Reese wrote:Wojciak wrote:Then i would want a skill for logis that would allow them to use some light weapons like the SR, shotgun and AR. then use Assault suits. While it would be nice to have it all, it would just turn into "All Logi All Day Every Day!!" Then you go to war become a medic and fight only with a side arm.
and in real life during wartime, if you see the enemy, you should already be dead. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
119
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Doyle Reese wrote:Wojciak wrote:Doyle Reese wrote:Wojciak wrote:Then i would want a skill for logis that would allow them to use some light weapons like the SR, shotgun and AR. then use Assault suits. While it would be nice to have it all, it would just turn into "All Logi All Day Every Day!!" Then you go to war become a medic and fight only with a side arm. You're a Medic, you're not supposed to fight, you're supposed to tend to the wounded, your weapon is for self defense, you shouldn't have to use it at all
Medics carry weapons as well actually.
Everyone on the field is a combat soldier. Logis are not just medics, they are LOGISTICS. LOGISTICS. It's in the name, see? They can fill all their slots with things to help their team. That can include repairing, droplinks, nanohives, etc. What do you imagine the Logi does after they're out of uplinks, nanohives, and everyone is full health? Wait for someone to get hit? Wait for someone to die?
What if their squad dies unrevivable, and they're taking fire from someone with an AR? Should they rush them with a sidearm? Just run? Is the logi strategy in combat supposed to be: "Suicide rush, flee, or hide"? What sort of combat soldiers do you think the armed forces have exactly? Do you think armies send people in with nothing but pistols?
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Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
434
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Or what you could do is change the mechanics of weapons slots. You could make it so that each slot modifies the PG/CPU requirements of the various weapons by so much %, and then a skill (or two) reduces/changes that modifier. So it would be possible, if you gave logis access to a skill that makes the light weapon in sidearm slot less impacted, then this could be interesting...
Modifier table:
Sidearm weapons in heavy slot (-50% PG/CPU)
Light weapons in heavy slot (-25% PG/CPU)
Sidearm weapons in Light slot (-25% PG/CPU)
Light weapons in sidearm slot (+100% PG/CPU)
Heavy weapons in light slot (+400% PG/CPU)
Heavy weapons in sidearm slot (+750% PG/CPU) |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
598
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dropships, Swarm Launchers, Tanks, Heavies, ARs, Heavies... again, HMG, Mass Drivers and now you want Logis nerfed too?! Seriously what is wrong with you people? How about instead of crying for a nerf, think of ways to buff up other things to match the performance of what you consider OP. We've been crying for nerfs for 2 years and look at how ****ed up this game is. We need an arms race, not a nerf war. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
119
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Dropships, Swarm Launchers, Tanks, Heavies, ARs, Heavies... again, HMG, Mass Drivers and now you want Logis nerfed too?! Seriously what is wrong with you people? How about instead of crying for a nerf, think of ways to buff up other things to match the performance of what you consider OP. We've been crying for nerfs for 2 years and look at how ****ed up this game is. We need an arms race, not a nerf war.
The sad part is even if Logis were restricted to sidearms, if enough logis were killing people with SMGs - people would still cry for nerfs: "They can use damage mods!! They have too many slots!! There's NO reason for a support class to have SLOTS! SLOTS ARE FOR ASSAULTS!"
People are idiots. There's enough issues with terrain bugs, glitched skills, new wonky aiming, etc. that a perceived advantage from logistics should be the least of their worries. Assaults/Scouts/Sentinels need to be different from the Basic frames, they need things to make their specialization, special. Nerfing an entire class (that already has the most restricted weaponry) is not necessary to do this.
Logis had more slots than assaults and access to assault weapons in the last build too, and they were effective in combat then as well. Maybe they're easier to notice because of the yellow. |
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Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
598
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Posted - 2013.05.09 20:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Or maybe we're forced to fight because the equipment radial and nanite injectors are so borked right now all we can do is fight? |
Sparrow Darkly
Martyrdom Inc
Insurance Fraud.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 20:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Being a logistics player, I read this post and thought, "Wtf.. seriously dude?!". But as I read more into it, you made me remember what the logistics player is actually meant to do: support the assault players.
The problem with this is that, as it stands now, logistics players need to kill in order to gain any SP. If the limits were taken off then I would gladly put on a SMG instead of an AR.
I wrote a post suggesting what could be done to fix the limits here. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
1462
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Posted - 2013.05.09 21:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wojciak wrote:Doyle Reese wrote:Wojciak wrote:Then i would want a skill for logis that would allow them to use some light weapons like the SR, shotgun and AR. then use Assault suits. While it would be nice to have it all, it would just turn into "All Logi All Day Every Day!!" Then you go to war become a medic and fight only with a side arm.
I was in the same thread the OP was in, and I linked this as an example.
http://www.blackpalette.com/wp-content/gallery/artworks/smg_modelsheet1200x2133.jpg
Weapon 2 is effective a carbine created by modifying the current SMG. If you had the option to do that with each of the racial SMGs, Logi could have a carbine that allows them to fight alongside Assault suits, without being able to take over and outperform them in their own role. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2013.05.09 21:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Give them 1-2 less High slots and 1 less low slot
- Make most of their resources be spent on equipment. |
Tiluvo
Digital Mercs
65
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Posted - 2013.05.09 21:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
The only reason RL medics only have a sidearm is the Geneva conventions. Medics cannot attack, but they also cannot be shot at. Dust does not have this prohibition. You can't have my marshmallow driver. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
125
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Posted - 2013.05.09 22:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Give them 1-2 less High slots and 1 less low slot
- Make most of their resources be spent on equipment.
Bahaha... Well, I called this up thread. The problem isn't the slots, or even the powergrid. The logi's equipment and increased slots make a suit loss even more expensive, and without more PG/CPU, they can't actually fit all that proto equipment they're supposed to use. In fact, even with a few ranks in electronics/engineering, you can't fit all proto stuff in your H/L slots as a Proto Caldari logi, even with a STD weapon and STD equipment.
I think one of the main differences post uprising is base-hp. Logi HP is static across frame type, STD = ADV = PRO. So is assault. However, assaults used to get different HP configurations on the far end of their suits, so their protos were somewhat more durable. Maybe they need that, maybe they need another adjustment.
Logis don't need a nerf though, it's already extremely difficult to fit your equipment. The extra CPU does not allow you to utilize those slots to the degree you might think - and the fitting skills are both 5x.
and again, logis aren't medics, they're LOGISTICS. It's in the kittening name people. |
Sparrow Darkly
Martyrdom Inc
Insurance Fraud.
1
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Posted - 2013.05.09 22:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Give them 1-2 less High slots and 1 less low slot
- Make most of their resources be spent on equipment.
While I understand that you think they may need less slots because of damage mods, I think they should be kept for defensive purposes. The damage mods need to be fixed and increase CPU/PG.
That way a Logi can survive an attack a bit better while trying to revive/repair/resupply his team. |
Eskel Bondfree
DUST University
Ivy League
86
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Posted - 2013.05.09 22:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
I will repost a suggestion here that I made in another thread:
- Keep the high number of slots for logis.
- Reduce their overall CPU/PG by a lot.
- Give them a large fitting bonus for equipment and other modules they need for defense and support.
Assaults could also receive a fitting bonus for weapons and offensive modules. The gallente assault and logi already have it that way, it should be expanded on all the suits.
Logis need a strong defense, but not the fire power of an assault. But taking away all light weapons from them would be going to far. The Amarr suit clearly shows that logis are not intended to be a non combat role only.
Dust is all about customization, this inlcudes offensive logi fits. They just shouldn't be better than the actual assault class. |
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