DUST Search - CCP: Why you need to lower SP prices

Cosgar wrote:

Here we go again...

You all got spoiled with your cheap SP skills and overlap, enjoying all the interesting toys to play with for the past few months. Little did you know that it was most likely intentional that these skills were going to be much broader in the future. When they said it would take seven years to make a character, they meant seven years. Count yourself lucky because in EVE, there are ships that will take a year and a half to gt into, just for the ship itself and not to mention how many months it might take to actually afford the damn thing. New Eden is one of the most unforgiving places, but does to best job to prevent power creep. Dust 514 isn't supposed to be something you can max out in a couple weeks and then wait for Dust 514: Black OPS to come out, there's not going to be a Dust 515, or 516, this is the core of the game and more and more will be built around it in time. If you casuals can't handle a bit of commitment, go back to collecting your little trophies on PSN.

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VLIGHT5 Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 45	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:19:00 - [1] - Quote I'm going to try to remain as constructive as possible in this thread, and I ask others to do the same. Simply put, skills are a lot more expensive now. Prices have inflated rapidly, and even those with millions of collective SP are finding it difficult to achieve the roles they want. There comes a time when you have to accept that the average FPS gamer does in fact have a shorter attention span. This game will not die if these expensive prices continue, but it will certainly not flourish as much as it could. Dust advertises itself as allowing deep customization, and while this is true, it is not available to new players at all. In order to appeal to most of the players that will inevitably flock to this game, prices need to be decreased, or you need to dramatically increase the amount of starting SP given. Deep customization in Dust takes a very long time, and that is not something a majority of FPS players are eager to go through. My personal solution is to open up access to more core roles, and require less SP investment to start in them. For example, if a brand new player wants to pilot a Dropship, make the doorway to becoming a pilot accessible, but allow the deep and rewarding customization that comes later to stay expensive and require lots of training. The point is, allow players to get into the things they want to, but don't allow them to become masters in a short amount of time. The gateway to the variety of roles needs to be wider and more accessible. Doing this will still allow the vast amount of customization to flourish, while granting new players the ability to play whatever role they want to. To summarize, you need to greatly open up more opportunities for new players. Expensive customization is fine, but save it for the advanced stuff, not the brand new/mid players.
S0LlD SNAKE PLAYSTATION4 22	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:20:00 - [2] - Quote Adapt or Die
Harkon Vysarii Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 240	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:21:00 - [3] - Quote Then we need less SP per match. You shouldnt be able to get all the skills to proto level in this game in a short amount of time.
VLIGHT5 Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 45	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:21:00 - [4] - Quote S0LlD SNAKE wrote: Adapt or Die I saw that coming
S0LlD SNAKE PLAYSTATION4 22	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:22:00 - [5] - Quote VLIGHT5 wrote: S0LlD SNAKE wrote: Adapt or Die I saw that coming then adapt or die
VLIGHT5 Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 45	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:22:00 - [6] - Quote Harkon Vysarii wrote: Then we need less SP per match. You shouldnt be able to get all the skills to proto level in this game in a short amount of time. I agree that proto should not take a short amount of time. I am simply stating that the PATH to a specific role needs to be more open. Players should easily be able to pick up a role, but it should require far, far more time to truly specialize and become unique with it.
Don Von Hulio Not Guilty EoN. 252	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:25:00 - [7] - Quote Plan ahead now more than ever. They were cheap back then because they wanted us to test as many things as possible, but also see what skills people favored over others. Someone just needs to make a faq on skilling because i doubt CCP will make anything remotely helpful.... they usually rely on the players to make sense of things. But this skill tree makes it way more noob friendly. The only thing i have to say is "press triangle and read". If you blow your SP on things you dont want/need.... thats on you.
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Unclaimed. 93	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:26:00 - [8] - Quote S0LlD SNAKE wrote: VLIGHT5 wrote: S0LlD SNAKE wrote: Adapt or Die I saw that coming then adapt or die So no more turrets shooting at different elevations, I guess I will have to adapt or die about that.
Bad Heal The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 3	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:27:00 - [9] - Quote S0LlD SNAKE wrote: Adapt or Die AHH
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 519	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:30:00 - [10] - Quote Here we go again... You all got spoiled with your cheap SP skills and overlap, enjoying all the interesting toys to play with for the past few months. Little did you know that it was most likely intentional that these skills were going to be much broader in the future. When they said it would take seven years to make a character, they meant seven years. Count yourself lucky because in EVE, there are ships that will take a year and a half to gt into, just for the ship itself and not to mention how many months it might take to actually afford the damn thing. New Eden is one of the most unforgiving places, but does to best job to prevent power creep. Dust 514 isn't supposed to be something you can max out in a couple weeks and then wait for Dust 514: Black OPS to come out, there's not going to be a Dust 515, or 516, this is the core of the game and more and more will be built around it in time. If you casuals can't handle a bit of commitment, go back to collecting your little trophies on PSN.

Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 189	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:30:00 - [11] - Quote I'm not sure I'm worried yet. If there are lots of new players arriving... then they are all playing with militia or other crappy gear and remain competitive with each other. If someone who has serious SP shows up they'll have to learn to work together to avoid getting stomped. Of course, I could be wrong.
VLIGHT5 Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 46	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:31:00 - [12] - Quote Don Von Hulio wrote: Plan ahead now more than ever. They were cheap back then because they wanted us to test as many things as possible, but also see what skills people favored over others. Someone just needs to make a faq on skilling because i doubt CCP will make anything remotely helpful.... they usually rely on the players to make sense of things. But this skill tree makes it way more noob friendly. The only thing i have to say is "press triangle and read". If you blow your SP on things you dont want/need.... thats on you. Yeah, I've already got an alt on passive because I'm saving up for jets... Hope tehy aren't too expensive. :(
VLIGHT5 Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 46	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:38:00 - [13] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Here we go again... You all got spoiled with your cheap SP skills and overlap, enjoying all the interesting toys to play with for the past few months. Little did you know that it was most likely intentional that these skills were going to be much broader in the future. When they said it would take seven years to make a character, they meant seven years. Count yourself lucky because in EVE, there are ships that will take a year and a half to gt into, just for the ship itself and not to mention how many months it might take to actually afford the damn thing. New Eden is one of the most unforgiving places, but does to best job to prevent power creep. Dust 514 isn't supposed to be something you can max out in a couple weeks and then wait for Dust 514: Black OPS to come out, there's not going to be a Dust 515, or 516, this is the core of the game and more and more will be built around it in time. If you casuals can't handle a bit of commitment, go back to collecting your little trophies on PSN. Honestly, did you even read my post? If you had, which I take it you haven't, you would be able to grasp that I am advocating for lower gateway prices, not lower everything. I completely agree that New Eden is a challenging place, and I love the concept of building a character over years of time. HOWEVER, my point is that it should not take such time to open players up to different roles. Right now, Dust is your basic bread and butter CoD Sci-fi knockoff in the early stages of the game. It's vanilla. It's boring. It isn't accessible and it isn't fun. The game advertises such a deep level of customization, emphasizing multiple roles in combat, however these roles aren't accessible to new players at all. A new player should be able to hop into any combat role, be it Dropships, Sniper, or Grenadier, at the start of the game. Apologies if this upsets you, but not many FPS'ers get a raging hard-on at the thought of investing hours upon hours of time just so they can start to adequately fly a Dropship. Completely missing the point, but it's to be expected, considering you're exactly the type of "RAAGH STUPID COD PLAYERS DUST IS ONLY FOR PROS, THE CONSOLE MARKET DOESN'T HAVE CASUALS IN IT," garbage that lurks at the bowels of this community. I'm not trying to threaten your egotistical sense of accomplishment, nor am I trying to stifle players from working hard. I am only saying that new players should be able to enter the very basics of any role they choose, as this will give the game more variety and improve player longevity.
germanus chabe Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 40	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:39:00 - [14] - Quote S0LlD SNAKE wrote: Adapt or Die His point is that adaptation takes too long. If I'm a new player and I realize 'hey in order to be effective I need to get into a racial specific suit and get my fittings to x level, and my gun to x level' how long is it going to take me to do that? The answer is about one or two months. Its just a stupid and rather pointless grind at this point. Why would anyone bother when there are equally fun and more balanced first person shooters out there?
Harkon Vysarii Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 240	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:45:00 - [15] - Quote VLIGHT5 wrote: Harkon Vysarii wrote: Then we need less SP per match. You shouldnt be able to get all the skills to proto level in this game in a short amount of time. I agree that proto should not take a short amount of time. I am simply stating that the PATH to a specific role needs to be more open. Players should easily be able to pick up a role, but it should require far, far more time to truly specialize and become unique with it. True this is I suppose and Issue but then again EVE is a very complex game and CCP as its developers are running off what experience they have, and one of the things that makes EVE so great is that it is not easy nor it as straightforward as other MMO's. I would say perhaps a certificate system like in EVE would help players get their bearing. For those who dont know certificates they are reccommneded skill investments to achieve something. For example to use Large Hybrid Turrets you need skills in Gunnery, Medium and Light Hybrids, and other skills like Sharpshooter etc, this list is laid out in a certificates menu that tells you what skills you need to achieve a Basic, Advance, or Expert proficiency in using the item. In dust it could be something like Shield Tanking Certificate Advanced- Power Grid III (to stack shield mods), Shield Control II, Shield Boost Systems IV, Shield Enchancements II. This gives players a list of things to skill into to achieve a certain end. There could be a Assault Frontline Certificate- Weaponry III, Sidearm Operation 1, Assault Rifle Operation III, Explosives I, Grenadier 1, Nano Circuitry I etc and list the associated Assault Skills you need to get.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1409	Posted - 2013.05.08 01:45:00 - [16] - Quote VLIGHT5 wrote: Don Von Hulio wrote: Plan ahead now more than ever. They were cheap back then because they wanted us to test as many things as possible, but also see what skills people favored over others. Someone just needs to make a faq on skilling because i doubt CCP will make anything remotely helpful.... they usually rely on the players to make sense of things. But this skill tree makes it way more noob friendly. The only thing i have to say is "press triangle and read". If you blow your SP on things you dont want/need.... thats on you. Yeah, I've already got an alt on passive because I'm saving up for jets... Hope tehy aren't too expensive. :( I imagine they'll be pretty pricey, but by that time we'll all have been doing Planetary Conquest and be rolling in ISK.
Beheme Malivolk Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.05.08 03:38:00 - [17] - Quote Psh, my attention span is fine, I just can't be bothered to spend my free time on a demanding game. The SP requirement inflation was probably geared way too strongly toward sinking SP that long-term players have accrued to this point, but it's going to be massively problematic for new players. They made a lot of good steps in reducing the broad gulf between Haves and Have Nots in the last update, but this sets up a new dichotomy.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 129	Posted - 2013.05.08 04:33:00 - [18] - Quote How about the training multipliers change when we buy skills? So to begin with all skills have a multiplier of 1x. Then when you spec into the next level of the tree it costs 2x. Next level = 3x etc. For skills that don't have any levels past the second then just change the multiplier accordingly. For example: Weaponry = 1x --> L Weapon Op = 2x --> AR op = 3x --> AR proficiency = 4x --> AR rapid reload = 5x We could even keep the final multipliers on some skills and interpolate the middle value. Example: Dropsuit Command = 1x --> Gallente Medium = 5x --> Gallente Assault = 10x. Although I disagree with the multipliers for the specialisations of dropsuits, this would allow everything to make more sense.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 139	Posted - 2013.05.08 05:07:00 - [19] - Quote In alll honest it isn't hard t develope a great assault suit in about 3 weeks. You just have to plan.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 725	Posted - 2013.05.08 05:54:00 - [20] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: I'm not sure I'm worried yet. If there are lots of new players arriving... then they are all playing with militia or other crappy gear and remain competitive with each other. If someone who has serious SP shows up they'll have to learn to work together to avoid getting stomped. Of course, I could be wrong. ctrl f - and only one mention of the term militia. That's the path for the early players to take. Once new game modes hit the experienced 8 mill plus SP players will be busy doing other things so they can have fun in pub matches.



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