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Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
428
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Posted - 2013.05.07 18:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tl;dr: If you want to take districts, lets talk about what you are thinking YOU will be getting out of it.
Many of us are pretty stuffed with cash at the moment, and could possibly individually fund a full asault on a district if we wanted. However, I think we need to step back and review some of the expectations we have going into this next chapter before we rush in and make our 'investments'. Its been about a month since the latest details came out and a refresher is probably helpful.
Refresher:
Wiki Page
Dev Post
Dev Blog 1 - An Introduction
Dev Blog 2 - An Update
Dev Blog 3 - Prepare Yourselves
Summary:
On day 1- corporations will buy clone packs at $80M isk each to claim districts. The clone value of clone packs are about 5.5x the cost of what you get from producing your own clones on planet. Depending on their timers, districts could be locked for over 24 hours. This could mean that some districts could get their max clone amounts before they could be attacked. These will likely be the districts with production facilities, producing 100 clones a day or $10M isk in clones.
So PC based income will be $8-10M isk per district.
Other costs/rewards
Lets say you have a 3:1 W/L rate and an average KDR on your team of 3:1 (so you are pretty good).
In a 200 v 200 clone battle you may lose 50 clones, while the attacking enemy loses the minimum 150 in battle due to deaths, but because you destroyed the attackers MCC you will get 50% of the remaining clones.
* Your 50 lost clones costs you 100k isk each or -$5M isk.
* You gained 80k isk (biomass) per clone killed in combat or +$12M split across your team or $750,000 isk per player.
* On average, each team member died just over 3 times. costing each of them about $125k isk per fit. (-6.2M isk for team or ~400k/ merc)
* Your team lost 2 Madrugers and 2 dropships in the fight for a net loss of -2.5 million isk (low estimate).
* You get to retain 25 of the 50 remaining clones from the attacker (+2.5 million isk)
* Your district makes 100 clones during the day you fight (+10 million isk)
Your net gain in this defensive battle is +10.8 M isk. If the tables were turned and you were an attacker your yields would be comparable depending on whether or not you count your home district's production as income, AND whether you get both leftover clones from the defender along with their clones produced...I have to reread this part...
Matches where teams break even in clone kills will end up in about a zero isk gain/loss for the winner if fitting cost is kept below ~150k isk/ dropsuit. But a 1:1 W/L rate will lose lots of isk in the long run.
Income summary
So with a 3:1 W/L rate you may make over 10 million isk 3 times, while losing about 15 million isk 1 in 4 times. Which means on average you will be making about <4 million isk/ match (or 250k isk per player per match more with cheaper fits). If you think that you will make isk hand over fist even has a great player you will be mistaken. Unless you can go 10/0, contribute consistently to team victories, and run <90k isk fits you won't be relying on PC for significantly better profits than FW/pub matches.
Clone Generation
One way you could summarize 'survivability' is that as long as you are losing less clones in battles than you are getting in a day, then you will generally be better off than those that don't. Also, when you look at the margins above that we are working with, if <50% of your generated clones are going to Genolution for sales, it will be much more difficult for even the best corps to turn a profit.
Important Notes
This does not include income from salvage. I consider salvage to be fairly unreliable. Now, with a much higher degree of variations in fits, getting salvage that you canGÇÖt use will be much more likely, meaning that it will not be profitable. Since it canGÇÖt be traded, it wonGÇÖt have residual value. This will be fixed GÇÿsoonGÇÖ making PC much more profitable for a wider audience of people. Equipment losses will be less significant over time, while clone losses will be the more important factor.
I have also not included infrastructure change costs. But you can imagine that at the listed rates of profit, a 100M isk investment will take a good while to pay off. I also havenGÇÖt included risk/cost/reward/bonuses on the Eve side into battle.
The biggest factors to making isk will be having the ability to guarantee OBS superiority in order to have to risk less on the field, minimizing clone loss, and fitting cost (nothing new).
CCP has said that their GÇÿpvp design shouldnGÇÖt require grinding to participate inGÇÖ. IGÇÖm wondering what we the community will think if corporate structures will have to raise their >25% of their operating expenses for PC in order to maintain territory? The type of social relationships this will require will take some clever politics by CEOs getting players to donate to corp until there is a taxing mechanic that would work. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
2273
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Posted - 2013.05.07 18:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
As a heavy - none of this is relevant to me if I'm not holding a forge gun.
Thanks CCP. |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
852
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 18:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Let Dust University take it all. They can keep the game :] |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
EoN.
203
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Posted - 2013.05.07 18:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
honestly I dont know many people really thinking about PC right now... everyone trying to wade thru the muck of what this game became overnight.
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Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
428
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 18:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think this conversation is necessary, because there are a handful of opinion leaders who are also corporation leaders within the community. More than anything, planetary conquest will be a corporation and even alliance effort.
Mismanaged expectations within this game element could very quickly lead to even worse virulently toxic attitudes by these community 'opinion makers' which will additionally shape further social investment into the game. |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
443
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 18:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
I applaud your effort Beren |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
852
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 18:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:I applaud your futile effort Beren
Fixed |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
Orion Empire
426
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 18:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
I am looking forward to PC but I don't think it will be particularly profitable for many individuals. That said, it's not supposed to be a big money maker - I imagine people will be funding their PC habit by playing pub matches. Afterall, what else is IB for? |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
429
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 18:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kira Lannister wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:I applaud your futile effort Beren Fixed
Frankly, I'm anxious to see how different corp metas play into this. I'm regularly seeing Hellstorm, Kill-Em-Quick, and Betamax heavily reliant upon vehicle based play. I often see their team's clone rates remain above 100 in pub matches, which may mean that they can keep clone costs extremely low.
Vehicle based teams could really make the best raiding/theft corps. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
355
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Posted - 2013.05.07 19:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Now enter the reality of economic attrition, psychological warfare etc. A well organized, respected and strong group will simply get attacked less. Nobody in their right mind wants to randomly lose 80M for a genpack attack after the donut has settled. The weakest link in PC will be the one taking the hits.
PC pays off if you have an economically strong but most of all good alliance. These good alliances will grow better and stronger, and fights will be had to seek out the paper tigers. The ones on top of food chain will be attacked rarely, and PC is good income for them - at the expense of suckers. Alternately, this first iteration becomes a non aggression pact isk printer, with the dissidents being forced out by the big blocks.
Welcome to New Eden. |
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Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
429
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Posted - 2013.05.07 19:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Now enter the reality of economic attrition, psychological warfare etc. A well organized, respected and strong group will simply get attacked less. Nobody in their right mind wants to randomly lose 80M for a genpack attack after the donut has settled. The weakest link in PC will be the one taking the hits.
PC pays off if you have an economically strong but most of all good alliance. These good alliances will grow better and stronger, and fights will be had to seek out the paper tigers. The ones on top of food chain will be attacked rarely, and PC is good income for them - at the expense of suckers. Alternately, this first iteration becomes a non aggression pact isk printer, with the dissidents being forced out by the big blocks.
Welcome to New Eden.
I really think that the better 'isk printer' in this case comes from the alliance as you said and not necessarily the districts. 30 active players can easily produce 50M+ isk each day. Each district will be making a maximum of 15M isk / dayif they are always winning from attacking. This is just from the work of 16 players.
In this case districts will basically become a reward for having a well put together corp, and conflict driver and isk sink (and talent faucet?) for the remaining 80% of the player base. I'm hoping that PC will force players to figure out how to play in continuously interesting, experimental, and new ways, even if it costs them something. |
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