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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
171
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Posted - 2013.05.05 21:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Vaerana Myshtana wrote:The Federation awaits our peaceful Caldari brethren with open arms.
It was not our ancestors who began the violence between our peoples, it was the megacorps.
Perhaps this period of upheaval will remind the countless millions of downtrodden that there is another way. You burn our planet, twice, and drive capital ships into our stations and you state that you want "peaceful" Caldari? I would say there aren't any because you killed them all. Be well. The bombardment of Caldari Prime was a serious overreaction precipitated by Caldari terrorists who killed millions of innocent people who were just trying to live their lives. I have always stated that the bombardment was unnecessary and cruel- and many historians now share that opinion. The Federation was not responsible for Admiral Yanala's indefensible decision to move Shigeru into low orbit- thereby guaranteeing a crash in the event of engine failure. Nor was the Federation responsible for Executor Heth's indefensible decision to park a planet killer in Luminaire. The Federation did not keep any titans in that system for the very reason that the State should never have done so- the presence of a planet killer in system demands its destruction by those it threatens. The Federation had not bombarded Caldari Prime in well over a century (almost two) and there was no reason to believe it would do so again. Moving Shigeru to Luminaire in the first place, without support fleets and supply lines, was nothing more than a demand that the Federation destroy her to protect the other planets in their system. I am surprised that they waited as long as they did. It is also well known that Admiral Noir went insane. He was rather old and had been called back into duty for diplomatic reasons. It is easy for us, in hindsight, to recognize his mental fragility, but given his decades of pacifist advocacy he seemed to be the best man to represent the military in the talks. Let us not forget that Ishukone CEO Otro Gariushi (a longtime advocate of peace) and the Gallente Economic Minister also died at Malkalen. While the tragedy hit the State most directly, it also hurt the Federation. Malkalen was a tragic accident turned into a political capital by an opportunistic Tibus Heth. The majority of the Federation, and especially us Intaki, have nothing but love for the Caldari PEOPLE. It is the state and its corrupt oligarchs that we detest, not those brave Caldari pioneers who helped forge the Federation in the first place. I say this, even after the State auctioned off OUR home. I say this after the State illicitly supported violent extremists who hunted down and murdered Intaki leaders, only some of whom (like Kyraella Idama and Saxon Hawke) survived in some way. We understand that this violence was but the turning of the Cycle. We do not forget, but most of us can forgive.
The Malkalen Incident was caused by Aeron Assis. Niques S. 'Leutre. Niemar Kokolen, better known as The Broker. Otro Gariushi refused to sell him the antidote to Vitoc, Insorum. Instead, for humanitarian reasons, he gave it to the Minmatar Republic, who used the antitode to help stage their assault on the Amarr Empire.
The Broker is afflicted by a condition that affects all of his clones and their master template, and Insorum is part of a cure that he could have used to save himself. Thus, denied access to hope of life, he vowed to destroy Otro and all of his works. He achieved this by assassinating Admiral Alexander and hijacking one of his clones. Using this clone, he broadcast a hate filled message before ramming FNS Wandering Saint into the Malkalen station. The hate filled message served as excellent 'political capital' for Tibus Heth, and undid Otro's peace efforts very effectively. Noir's actual last words were spoken to his wife: "Thanks sweetie, but that's all right. I'll only be a few minutes."
Both sides were innocent of wrongdoing in the Malkalen Incident, though Tibus Heth's manipulation of the event was reprehensible. And Alexander Noir was one of the greatest pacifists in New Eden - He won an Aidonis award, an award specifically for promoting peace.
The state auctions of the conquered Federation worlds was a source of consternation to people of both the Federation and the State, as the auctions were revoked by Tibus Heth and the Federation public was outraged. As it turned out, the State could not hold the Federation worlds and a few years later the Federation held all of them instead.
The first and only Gallentean bombardment of Caldari Prime was caused by an extremist government group seizing power after the Templis Dragonaurs, a Caldari terrorist group, detonated charges shattering the glass dome over Nouvelle Rouvenor and allowing millions of tons of seawater to rush in. There were no survivors. The bombardment was not a good thing, but it is understandable that the Gallente launched it, to an extent.
Also of note is that Jacus Roden hardly has a spotless record. Roden Shipyards are known for corruption and backroom dealing.
Tibus is insane - his decision to put his attack dog in command of a Leviathan over a heavily populated planet showed this, to say nothing of his recent follies.
Bar the initial bombardment of Caldari Prime (which itself was justifiable to an extent), I challenge Caldari loyalists to present hard facts that show that the Gallente Federation is at fault for the war with the Caldari State. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
172
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 21:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Natu Nobilis wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69004
The beggining of wars are always debatable, what is done in them, it-¦s not.
I don-¦t recall crimes against civilian population being done by the Caldari, but they-¦re being done by the Gallente.
Crimes against the civilian population done by the Caldari?
Nouvelle Rouvenor. Hueromont. Shiigeru. Tovil. Arcurio.
The list goes on, and those are only the atrocities committed against the Gallente people. The State has a long record of firing on their own people, executing protestors, violently putting down rallies. Small wonder the people on Caldari Prime revolted. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
172
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 22:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Natu Nobilis wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Natu Nobilis wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69004
The beggining of wars are always debatable, what is done in them, it-¦s not.
I don-¦t recall crimes against civilian population being done by the Caldari, but they-¦re being done by the Gallente. Crimes against the civilian population done by the Caldari? Nouvelle Rouvenor. Hueromont. Shiigeru. Tovil. Arcurio. The list goes on, and those are only the atrocities committed against the Gallente people. The State has a long record of firing on their own people, executing protestors, violently putting down rallies. Small wonder the people on Caldari Prime revolted. Point all you want, the Gallente have their hands as dirty as the Caldari.
Care to cite examples? |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 22:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Quote:Hands do not wash themselves unless the heart wants cleanliness.
-Intaki Proverb The point is that we have an opportunity for reconciliation amongst those in both nations who desire peace, security, and prosperity. Our previous President, Foiritan, was generally a pacifist who spent much of his term keeping people like Mentas Blaque and Jacus Roden safely corralled. Heth's ascendancy and Foiritan's inability to keep Shigeru out of Luminaire opened the door for the xenophobic and racist to seize power in the Federation. If Heth is gone, there is no need for a monster like Roden. We can work to restore friendly relations between our peoples. Thus freeing us up to stomp bandits and other lowlifes who would terrorize the humble working folk our the many inhabited worlds of New Eden.
There is no need for a monster like Roden even now.
But I agree with you, fellow Gallentean. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 22:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:
Because a hammer doesn't need to be well made in order to pound something to dust. You would never see something as fine as a Leviathan or Avatar made by slaves. Now the Imparior...
Be well.
The first Amarrian titan was built by slaves. A majority of the Amarrian construction industry is based on slavery. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 23:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Llan Heindell wrote:I am Amarr, but I sympathize with the Gallente situation. The Caldari have gone too far this time. I'll be fighting for the Gallente if this comes to the hands of the Mercenaries. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:
Because a hammer doesn't need to be well made in order to pound something to dust. You would never see something as fine as a Leviathan or Avatar made by slaves. Now the Imparior...
Be well.
The first Amarrian titan was built by slaves. A majority of the Amarrian construction industry is based on slavery. The Egypt structures were built by slaves and yet they were respected as a wise and ahead of their time people. The Amarrian civilization is no different from that. Llan Heindell.
I was objecting to the statement that titans were 'too fine' to be built by slaves.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 06:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Harkon Vysarii wrote:.
All jokes aside Heth is a strong leader just radical by Gallente standards.
Heth is a weak leader. Putting Yanala in command of the Shiigeru was a mistake, as was revoking the auction of the Federation worlds and putting the titan in Luminaire in the first place.
Llan Heindell wrote: I know, if you read it right, you might notice that I was reenforcing your argument as the Egyptians have also built wonders with slavery.
Llan Heindell.
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