DUST Search - [Idea] Balancing shields vs armor tanking

Exmaple Core wrote:

i disagree and say that armor tanking is far superior to sheild tanking.

Sheild hardner: 30% resist for 10 seconds with a 30 second cool down
Armor hardner: 25% resist for one minute with a 15 second cool down
Armor resist 6 times as long and cools twice as quick for a 5% diffrence. Not exactly fair to sheild tanks

Passive hardners are the same stats

The most powerful armor rep reps 7k armor
The most powerful sheild rep reps 2500 sheilds
Sheilds reps a third of armor tanks for the same PG, CPU and price. Also not fair for sheild tanks

The Marauder skill gives armor tanks more damage potential for their blasters while sheilds have missile buffs. With any luck missiles will be worth using in uprising but they have not been for many months. Armor tanks do more damage than sheild tanks.

Sheild tanks are more maneuverable and faster than armor tanks by a looong shot! untill you use a keybord then both of them are ungodly fast and maneuverable.

To sum it up, armor tanks have more effective HP, resist more damage for longer with a shorter cool down, do more damage and with a keybord are just as fast and maneuverable. Wich is literally every aspect of tanking.... how are sheild tanks better? I have a sagaris with max skills (35% damage bonus with no mods) and there are well fit madrugers that blow me up in blaster battles. My fitting isent the promblem ethire. As far as rails go everyone fits damage mod compressed partical cannon and 2 shots everyone else. As broken as rails are that is at least balenced for both tanks.
Yeah armor takes more damage to explosives and sheilds resist them but armor has an easier time with forge guns cuz of their high end resist + rep. sheilds jus blow up form forges so its about balanced. TBH, armor tanks are better for corp battles (erm, everything that matters in pc, taking planets) and sheilds are better for pro pub stompers cuz everyone has swarms in pubs and no one has swarms in corp battles

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Severus Smith L.O.T.I.S. 222	Posted - 2013.04.29 22:46:00 - [1] - Quote Everyone knows shield tanking > armor tanking right now. In EVE the penalty for shield extenders is an increase in Signature Radius, basically translating into "you're easier to hit with stuff", so why not do something similar for DUST? - The more shield extenders you stack means that your hitbox gets bigger by X%. - The more armor plates you stack means your mobility is reduced by X%. Both now translate into "you're easier to hit" and match EVE's penalty design for shield vs armor tanking. It wouldn't be by much, but if you stacked 4x Complex SE's at 10% each then you're 40% larger hitbox will take more shots similar to how a 4x Complex AP fit will take more shots due to being 40% slower. Makes for interesting decisions. Discuss...
Tarquin Markel Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 104	Posted - 2013.04.29 23:02:00 - [2] - Quote Interesting idea. Couple of thoughts ... (1) This makes sense to me until the shield drops. If the shield is "around" somebody, I could see a stronger shield occupying more space. I can even see feedback from the shield getting taken down hard doing armor damage (hit from a charged sniper rifle or whatever). However, once the shield is down, a shot through its airspace should not be a killing blow. (2) This should not affect headshots. (3) Even if this idea doesn't apply to dropsuits, it should definitely apply to those damn zippy Caldari tanks and shield tanked LAV's.
Polish Hammer Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy 304	Posted - 2013.04.30 00:04:00 - [3] - Quote I like this concept. With what Tarquin said about after the shields get dropped, I think this could be a very nice balancing idea to the shield tanks.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 312	Posted - 2013.04.30 00:13:00 - [4] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Everyone knows shield tanking > armor tanking right now. In EVE the penalty for shield extenders is an increase in Signature Radius, basically translating into "you're easier to hit with stuff", so why not do something similar for DUST? - The more shield extenders you stack means that your hitbox gets bigger by X%. - The more armor plates you stack means your mobility is reduced by X%. Both now translate into "you're easier to hit" and match EVE's penalty design for shield vs armor tanking. It wouldn't be by much, but if you stacked 4x Complex SE's at 10% each then you're 40% larger hitbox will take more shots similar to how a 4x Complex AP fit will take more shots due to being 40% slower. Makes for interesting decisions. Discuss... Just for the record, it isn't 40% slower. It's 34.39% slower. Also, while it's true in Eve that you are easier to hit with a higher sig radius, you are also easier to scan down and "see". I think this may be coming to Dust in Uprising, but I don't know for sure.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 222	Posted - 2013.04.30 00:18:00 - [5] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Severus Smith wrote: Everyone knows shield tanking > armor tanking right now. In EVE the penalty for shield extenders is an increase in Signature Radius, basically translating into "you're easier to hit with stuff", so why not do something similar for DUST? - The more shield extenders you stack means that your hitbox gets bigger by X%. - The more armor plates you stack means your mobility is reduced by X%. Both now translate into "you're easier to hit" and match EVE's penalty design for shield vs armor tanking. It wouldn't be by much, but if you stacked 4x Complex SE's at 10% each then you're 40% larger hitbox will take more shots similar to how a 4x Complex AP fit will take more shots due to being 40% slower. Makes for interesting decisions. Discuss... Just for the record, it isn't 40% slower. It's 34.39% slower. Also, while it's true in Eve that you are easier to hit with a higher sig radius, you are also easier to scan down and "see". I think this may be coming to Dust in Uprising, but I don't know for sure. So maybe if your shield tanked, you have some kind of blue glow.
Severus Smith L.O.T.I.S. 225	Posted - 2013.04.30 01:20:00 - [6] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Just for the record, it isn't 40% slower. It's 34.39% slower. Also, while it's true in Eve that you are easier to hit with a higher sig radius, you are also easier to scan down and "see". I think this may be coming to Dust in Uprising, but I don't know for sure. I've heard from several sources that SE's will increase your sig radius. So if your a shield tanking I should be able to see you easier on my Tacnet. However, to me, this still seems imbalanced. High sig radius != Low mobility. Decreased mobility is huge. You take more damage since you're slower, have to stay in the open more, get out maneuvered, and it just sucks. And there are no skills to increase base mobility. Meanwhile, increased sig radius is a disadvantage, but with all the skills that dampen your sig radius it can be mitigated and at worst the armor tanker sees you on their radar as you run circles around them. Increasing the hit box by as slight percentage could mean the difference between that sniper clipping your side when your behind cover, and him not. Slightly more damage from spread weapons, etc. Nothing crazy, I'm in no way trying to say that shield tanking should mean you have a giant Paladin Bubble hitbox visible from across the map. Just a tiny bit bigger so that it's a disadvantage. To note: I am waiting impatiently for the Caldari Heavy so that I can rock 800+ shield HP with as many Complex rechargers, extenders, and regulators as I can fit. So I am one to lose if something like this is implemented.
Exmaple Core SyNergy Gaming EoN. 189	Posted - 2013.04.30 02:27:00 - [7] - Quote i disagree and say that armor tanking is far superior to sheild tanking. Sheild hardner: 30% resist for 10 seconds with a 30 second cool down Armor hardner: 25% resist for one minute with a 15 second cool down Armor resist 6 times as long and cools twice as quick for a 5% diffrence. Not exactly fair to sheild tanks Passive hardners are the same stats The most powerful armor rep reps 7k armor The most powerful sheild rep reps 2500 sheilds Sheilds reps a third of armor tanks for the same PG, CPU and price. Also not fair for sheild tanks The Marauder skill gives armor tanks more damage potential for their blasters while sheilds have missile buffs. With any luck missiles will be worth using in uprising but they have not been for many months. Armor tanks do more damage than sheild tanks. Sheild tanks are more maneuverable and faster than armor tanks by a looong shot! untill you use a keybord then both of them are ungodly fast and maneuverable. To sum it up, armor tanks have more effective HP, resist more damage for longer with a shorter cool down, do more damage and with a keybord are just as fast and maneuverable. Wich is literally every aspect of tanking.... how are sheild tanks better? I have a sagaris with max skills (35% damage bonus with no mods) and there are well fit madrugers that blow me up in blaster battles. My fitting isent the promblem ethire. As far as rails go everyone fits damage mod compressed partical cannon and 2 shots everyone else. As broken as rails are that is at least balenced for both tanks
Exmaple Core SyNergy Gaming EoN. 189	Posted - 2013.04.30 02:31:00 - [8] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: i disagree and say that armor tanking is far superior to sheild tanking. Sheild hardner: 30% resist for 10 seconds with a 30 second cool down Armor hardner: 25% resist for one minute with a 15 second cool down Armor resist 6 times as long and cools twice as quick for a 5% diffrence. Not exactly fair to sheild tanks Passive hardners are the same stats The most powerful armor rep reps 7k armor The most powerful sheild rep reps 2500 sheilds Sheilds reps a third of armor tanks for the same PG, CPU and price. Also not fair for sheild tanks The Marauder skill gives armor tanks more damage potential for their blasters while sheilds have missile buffs. With any luck missiles will be worth using in uprising but they have not been for many months. Armor tanks do more damage than sheild tanks. Sheild tanks are more maneuverable and faster than armor tanks by a looong shot! untill you use a keybord then both of them are ungodly fast and maneuverable. To sum it up, armor tanks have more effective HP, resist more damage for longer with a shorter cool down, do more damage and with a keybord are just as fast and maneuverable. Wich is literally every aspect of tanking.... how are sheild tanks better? I have a sagaris with max skills (35% damage bonus with no mods) and there are well fit madrugers that blow me up in blaster battles. My fitting isent the promblem ethire. As far as rails go everyone fits damage mod compressed partical cannon and 2 shots everyone else. As broken as rails are that is at least balenced for both tanks. Yeah armor takes more damage to explosives and sheilds resist them but armor has an easier time with forge guns cuz of their high end resist + rep. sheilds jus blow up form forges so its about balanced. TBH, armor tanks are better for corp battles (erm, everything that matters in pc, taking planets) and sheilds are better for pro pub stompers cuz everyone has swarms in pubs and no one has swarms in corp battles
Severus Smith L.O.T.I.S. 225	Posted - 2013.04.30 06:10:00 - [9] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: i disagree and say that armor tanking is far superior to sheild tanking. Sheild hardner: 30% resist for 10 seconds with a 30 second cool down Armor hardner: 25% resist for one minute with a 15 second cool down Armor resist 6 times as long and cools twice as quick for a 5% diffrence. Not exactly fair to sheild tanks Passive hardners are the same stats The most powerful armor rep reps 7k armor The most powerful sheild rep reps 2500 sheilds Sheilds reps a third of armor tanks for the same PG, CPU and price. Also not fair for sheild tanks The Marauder skill gives armor tanks more damage potential for their blasters while sheilds have missile buffs. With any luck missiles will be worth using in uprising but they have not been for many months. Armor tanks do more damage than sheild tanks. Sheild tanks are more maneuverable and faster than armor tanks by a looong shot! untill you use a keybord then both of them are ungodly fast and maneuverable. To sum it up, armor tanks have more effective HP, resist more damage for longer with a shorter cool down, do more damage and with a keybord are just as fast and maneuverable. Wich is literally every aspect of tanking.... how are sheild tanks better? I have a sagaris with max skills (35% damage bonus with no mods) and there are well fit madrugers that blow me up in blaster battles. My fitting isent the promblem ethire. As far as rails go everyone fits damage mod compressed partical cannon and 2 shots everyone else. As broken as rails are that is at least balenced for both tanks I was talking about infantry not HAVs but thanks for the numbers. Maybe what we need is an infantry armor hardener module / skill as well to make it work.


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