DUST Search - Friendly Fire & Griefing Discussion

DustMercsBlog wrote:

Exmaple Core wrote:

DustMercsBlog wrote:

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

In EVE i dont get fined

I get a sec status hit and the guy i griefed lost a ship as did i trying to grief him if in high sec

In low sec the gate guns aggro on me but concord doesnt protect ppl, its upto the griefed to get revenge on the griefers

In DUST i dont see autokicking working unless its tied to sec status espc for FW, fines may do but ppl get rich and can take it, concord fines only relate to high sec

Dont forget auto-kicking is supported by the lore. In Templar One when templar three malfunctioned his clone was deactivated.

We doubt CCP wants CONCORD AI killing mercs, makes more sense to put a bounty on them. fining is something we came up with as a deterrent.

Except there is no bounty system. If there ever will be it is veryyy low on the To Do list. Besides the bounty would prolly be something like "kill this guy once for 70k isk..." TK, then switch to a starter fit. Np loosing one of those

a better one would provide incentive, kill this guy as much times as you can in a match for 15K ISK a kill. not on the to-do list? we're not so sure. here's a tweet from nullabor https://twitter.com/CCP_Nullarbor/status/328697105415811073

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Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 272	Posted - 2013.04.29 12:26:00 - [1] - Quote Many players in Dust want FF. without it spam ensues and tactics that should never work [calling orbitals on allies, shooting through blues, throwing grenades force fields to protect allies but hurt the enemy, ect......] are viable. We are extremely sadfaced to report FW will not have FF and and only PC will be the real New Eden. Its our assertion that lack of friendly fire is arcady and 'unworthy of new eden' but we also understand that this is a console game and griefing is part of the culture. can a compromise be made? While a certain level of skullduggery, betrayal and turncoatism should be supported we will never support a free for all where new or unpopular players can be griefed without consequences. While most games have no ways to regulate order, we think CONCORD is the perfect mechanic to limit griefing, even if they only take out bounties on criminals [would be very cool, and would support the bounty hunter market slayers are sure to love] we'd like to see more deterrents like CONCORD fines [only in high & low sec] withholding rewards for TKers, disabling of malfunctioning clones [kicking them from the game] and griefers forced to pay for the gear they destroy, but its all up for debate because no one wants a system that can be exploited. what say you? give us your opinions.
Reiki Jubo Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 101	Posted - 2013.04.29 12:35:00 - [2] - Quote +1 i like all of these 1. concord fines 2. kick or forgive options 3. autokicking 4. no payment to TKers 5. concord bounties players can accept 6. forcing TKers to replace gear they destroy
Sigberct Amni Defensores Doctrina 43	Posted - 2013.04.29 12:48:00 - [3] - Quote What about a "Friendly Fire Light" for Highsec? It would be a simple ISK fine based on FF dmg during Instant matches but it does no damage to the ally you shot. To prevent abuse it would have to be able to take a character's wallet into negative ISK. Then make it so you can't delete characters with negative wallets. This would need the ability to give isk to other characters. EDIT: For FW battles, make it cost more ISK per point of damage and inflict only a portion of the damage done. Say 30%? EDIT 2 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO: How do we address griefers that throw themselves into lines of fire?
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 36	Posted - 2013.04.29 12:51:00 - [4] - Quote I think that any penalties should only occur after multiple incidents, say 3 or something? To accomodate for genuine mistakes.
Zlocha Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2013.04.29 12:56:00 - [5] - Quote When DUST launches and being it an awsome game it need to have a lot of content for new guys so it has a higher retainment rate. Highsec battles, merc contracts and FW will be just enough for newbies to experiment a deeper game experience. FF adds alot to the harshnes and will daunt lot of new players. FW in EVE is 99% about new players and the old ones are also fling 99% T1 frigate-cruiser hull which is let say a newbie gear compared in dust. FW in eve is an excellent indicator that it really works well for new guys. and older players too. When u make a step away from FW u see pirate in assault ships, T3, BS and capital ships trying to take over POCOs, ruin POSes or just trying to be dominant in a certain area. So let FW be a step btw highsec fights and PC. Not to serious but with some more meaning. And let newbies choose if they want more serious business in PC and later in 0.0
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 125	Posted - 2013.04.29 12:57:00 - [6] - Quote Sigberct Amni wrote: What about a "Friendly Fire Light" for FW? It would be a simple ISK fine based on FF dmg during FW matches but it does no damage to the ally you shot. To prevent abuse it would have to be able to take a character's wallet into negative ISK. Then make it so you can't delete characters with negative wallets. That punishes new players more than griefers. You have to imagine that most newbies are twitchy and panicky, and even being used to FPS isn't as calming as being used to a specific map and where spawn highways are located. And people who are enthusiastic but not yet skilled will have to pay a fine before they can get ISK to buy gear to help them become better. Then consider two players of equal skill but divergent wallets. Let's say the bowl on Magus currently is a clusteF and has 15 people from both teams in there. They guy blue with 50mil saved up won't hesitate to drop an orbital, and spend the several thousand ISK to fake damage his team. The guy on red with 500,000 ISK can't afford to drop his orbital on the hot zone. So the prevailing tactic will be "richest player is the squad captain". Quite possibly extended to "rich player is the heavy" which is just further monetary punishment for the heavy class.
Sigberct Amni Defensores Doctrina 43	Posted - 2013.04.29 13:00:00 - [7] - Quote Ivan and Zlocha - good points. I'll get some more coffee and see if I can think on a better approach.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 165	Posted - 2013.04.29 13:19:00 - [8] - Quote Really easy fix would be to have the griefer instantly pay the ISK value of the guy he shot, with the possibility to turn negative, while it has negative ISK, the character cannot be deleted aand hes stuck with it until he gets above 0 again, only be able to use starter fits. Sure someone can mow 10 protos down, but he will instantly pay 2 mill for it + fine depending on how many times it happened in the last few minutes = loads of cash gone. Dropping an Orbital on your own teams tank + infantry woops Wallet dry! Sigberct Amni wrote: What about a "Friendly Fire Light" for Highsec? It would be a simple ISK fine based on FF dmg during Instant matches but it does no damage to the ally you shot. To prevent abuse it would have to be able to take a character's wallet into negative ISK. Then make it so you can't delete characters with negative wallets. This would need the ability to give isk to other characters. EDIT: For FW battles, make it cost more ISK per point of damage and inflict only a portion of the damage done. Say 30%? EDIT 2 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO: How do we address griefers that throw themselves into lines of fire? I should have read the thread first, lol
Exmaple Core SyNergy Gaming EoN. 186	Posted - 2013.04.29 13:29:00 - [9] - Quote Lol droping OBs into freindlys. ISK fines are a joke guys. all of negative feedback, Immobile Infaintry (aka goonswarm) and rival corporations in PC would simply produce their own cash using districts and refucnd their players for TK incidents. Some corporations (undoubty the most seccessful ones) will have excess cash durring PC to give to their players to fund team killing. Fines will do nothing
Kushmir Nadian Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 196	Posted - 2013.04.29 13:29:00 - [10] - Quote You play a dangerous game when you don't keep core game aspects that some people might consider "hard" from instant battles, to FW, merc contracts and finally PC. Know this, most people go to the path of least resistance if you give them a choice...its human nature. Why wouldn't they? Not many people like to be challenged. Give players an easier choice and most will choose it 9 times/10. Go look for a hardcore server in BF3 if you doubt this. This affects Dust because not only does it probably mean a very small percentage of people will play PC, but even worse newer players prep themselves in an environment where they can shoot through allies, friendlies are immune to their grenades and spam Mass drivers and never hurt teammates. And then they come to PC... "Sorry guys, I didnt know orbitals killed allies. OOOOPS." They will have to completely change their style of play/tactics as its basically a different game. Or they can just play the modes that are "less forgiving." Guess which one they'll choose.

Kushmir Nadian Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 196	Posted - 2013.04.29 13:33:00 - [11] - Quote That said I support fines, no payment to team-killers, making team-killers pay for gear they destroy, bounties and auto-kicks. The main thing is to punish the Griefer to provide a deterrent. Now if some corp pays a guy to sabotage us and will pay his fines for him? FINE. He should have the freedom to do that....to a certain extent, he should still get auto-kicked for killing allies.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 311	Posted - 2013.04.29 13:42:00 - [12] - Quote In EVE i dont get fined I get a sec status hit and the guy i griefed lost a ship as did i trying to grief him if in high sec In low sec the gate guns aggro on me but concord doesnt protect ppl, its upto the griefed to get revenge on the griefers In DUST i dont see autokicking working unless its tied to sec status espc for FW, fines may do but ppl get rich and can take it, concord fines only relate to high sec
DustMercsBlog Galactic News Network 49	Posted - 2013.04.29 13:52:00 - [13] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: In EVE i dont get fined I get a sec status hit and the guy i griefed lost a ship as did i trying to grief him if in high sec In low sec the gate guns aggro on me but concord doesnt protect ppl, its upto the griefed to get revenge on the griefers In DUST i dont see autokicking working unless its tied to sec status espc for FW, fines may do but ppl get rich and can take it, concord fines only relate to high sec Dont forget auto-kicking is supported by the lore. In Templar One when templar three malfunctioned his clone was deactivated. We doubt CCP wants CONCORD AI killing mercs like their ships do in EVE, makes more sense to put a bounty on them. fining is something we came up with as a deterrent.
Exmaple Core SyNergy Gaming EoN. 186	Posted - 2013.04.29 13:56:00 - [14] - Quote DustMercsBlog wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: In EVE i dont get fined I get a sec status hit and the guy i griefed lost a ship as did i trying to grief him if in high sec In low sec the gate guns aggro on me but concord doesnt protect ppl, its upto the griefed to get revenge on the griefers In DUST i dont see autokicking working unless its tied to sec status espc for FW, fines may do but ppl get rich and can take it, concord fines only relate to high sec Dont forget auto-kicking is supported by the lore. In Templar One when templar three malfunctioned his clone was deactivated. We doubt CCP wants CONCORD AI killing mercs, makes more sense to put a bounty on them. fining is something we came up with as a deterrent. Except there is no bounty system. If there ever will be it is veryyy low on the To Do list. Besides the bounty would prolly be something like "kill this guy once for 70k isk..." TK, then switch to a starter fit. Np loosing one of those
DustMercsBlog Galactic News Network 49	Posted - 2013.04.29 14:00:00 - [15] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: DustMercsBlog wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: In EVE i dont get fined I get a sec status hit and the guy i griefed lost a ship as did i trying to grief him if in high sec In low sec the gate guns aggro on me but concord doesnt protect ppl, its upto the griefed to get revenge on the griefers In DUST i dont see autokicking working unless its tied to sec status espc for FW, fines may do but ppl get rich and can take it, concord fines only relate to high sec Dont forget auto-kicking is supported by the lore. In Templar One when templar three malfunctioned his clone was deactivated. We doubt CCP wants CONCORD AI killing mercs, makes more sense to put a bounty on them. fining is something we came up with as a deterrent. Except there is no bounty system. If there ever will be it is veryyy low on the To Do list. Besides the bounty would prolly be something like "kill this guy once for 70k isk..." TK, then switch to a starter fit. Np loosing one of those a better one would provide incentive, kill this guy as much times as you can in a match for 15K ISK a kill. not on the to-do list? we're not so sure. here's a tweet from nullabor https://twitter.com/CCP_Nullarbor/status/328697105415811073
Exmaple Core SyNergy Gaming EoN. 186	Posted - 2013.04.29 14:05:00 - [16] - Quote DustMercsBlog wrote: Exmaple Core wrote: DustMercsBlog wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: In EVE i dont get fined I get a sec status hit and the guy i griefed lost a ship as did i trying to grief him if in high sec In low sec the gate guns aggro on me but concord doesnt protect ppl, its upto the griefed to get revenge on the griefers In DUST i dont see autokicking working unless its tied to sec status espc for FW, fines may do but ppl get rich and can take it, concord fines only relate to high sec Dont forget auto-kicking is supported by the lore. In Templar One when templar three malfunctioned his clone was deactivated. We doubt CCP wants CONCORD AI killing mercs, makes more sense to put a bounty on them. fining is something we came up with as a deterrent. Except there is no bounty system. If there ever will be it is veryyy low on the To Do list. Besides the bounty would prolly be something like "kill this guy once for 70k isk..." TK, then switch to a starter fit. Np loosing one of those a better one would provide incentive, kill this guy as much times as you can in a match for 15K ISK a kill. not on the to-do list? we're not so sure. here's a tweet from nullabor https://twitter.com/CCP_Nullarbor/status/328697105415811073 ooh good find! thats kinda scary tbh
Medic 1879 The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 124	Posted - 2013.04.29 14:08:00 - [17] - Quote I played a game once I cant remember what it was called sadly but FF caused your weapon to simply stop working for a period of time it was a good idea because unless you landed the last bullet on a team mate you couldn't accidentally kill them but bad because idiots would run infront of you all the time to lock you. I think it was MGO actually now I think about it.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 518	Posted - 2013.04.29 14:10:00 - [18] - Quote I want to be able to set standings to mercs and corporations. If I'm joining a pub match and see reds on my team I'll know to jump out before the match starts. We had a team killer in a match last night but I'll forget his name before I have to deal with him again. Getting old sucks.
DustMercsBlog Galactic News Network 49	Posted - 2013.04.29 14:10:00 - [19] - Quote Scary good tbh. most of us want to resolve situations by ourselves but there have to be consequences to griefing and CONCORD is a great mechanic to deal with criminals in high & low sec. If i was a slayer I would be licking my chops for CONCORD bounties.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 311	Posted - 2013.04.29 14:11:00 - [20] - Quote Medic 1879 wrote: I played a game once I cant remember what it was called sadly but FF caused your weapon to simply stop working for a period of time it was a good idea because unless you landed the last bullet on a team mate you couldn't accidentally kill them but bad because idiots would run infront of you all the time to lock you. I think it was MGO actually now I think about it. Yup Nanomachines

Medic 1879 The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 124	Posted - 2013.04.29 14:14:00 - [21] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Yup Nanomachines Good to know I was right for a change lol. Also the word "Nanomachines." pretty much sums up MGS4.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 166	Posted - 2013.04.29 14:14:00 - [22] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: In EVE i dont get fined I get a sec status hit and the guy i griefed lost a ship as did i trying to grief him if in high sec In low sec the gate guns aggro on me but concord doesnt protect ppl, its upto the griefed to get revenge on the griefers In DUST i dont see autokicking working unless its tied to sec status espc for FW, fines may do but ppl get rich and can take it, concord fines only relate to high sec Thze diffrence in Eve is, you KNOw yer gonna grief so you fly a ship that costs practically nothing and try to gank officer fit ships worth 3Billion ISK+ Someone tried to Insta Blap my 3 billion Tengu yesterday (Deathspace / Navy fitted) he put me in Armor with 1 shot, next shot I would have been dead, luckely i had my invul fields running and closed my EMP hole while repping back up to 50% before his next shot landed. He god popped by concord :p But it really costs next to nothing for him, where i would loose a 2 weeks worth of cash.
Prius Vecht Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 79	Posted - 2013.04.29 15:04:00 - [23] - Quote We definitely need FF in all modes. but there def needs to be ways to address griefing.
Nylithe Empyreal Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2013.04.29 15:59:00 - [24] - Quote Security status for players sounds like a neat idea coupled with maybe a system to segregate each other a bit and put the security status display for the different players in a match, eventually they'll just all funnel together and will have to act accordingly. to come back etc to society. I could dig it.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 337	Posted - 2013.04.29 16:07:00 - [25] - Quote MOAR FF!
sammus420 immobile infantry 43	Posted - 2013.04.29 16:28:00 - [26] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: Lol droping OBs into freindlys. ISK fines are a joke guys. all of negative feedback, Immobile Infaintry (aka goonswarm) and rival corporations in PC would simply produce their own cash using districts and refucnd their players for TK incidents. Some corporations (undoubty the most seccessful ones) will have excess cash durring PC to give to their players to fund team killing. Fines will do nothing Immobile Infantry will absolutely NOT being doing this. We take a very strong anti-TK stance now, despite our past transgressions.


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