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Beef Supreme 4
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.04.23 05:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now, as you all probably know, the build for Planetary Conquest has been announced for some time now, but I have a few problems with it. I know you are probably very skeptical of what I have to say, but please hear me out. The main problem I have with the current build is that you have to be defending every day, this is a problem for a number of reasons. what if a lot of your corporation is off line for whatever reason. What if you have say six districts that have to be defended at different times? That's six hours of defending. The list could go on, but these are the main concerns I have. But here's my solution. The premise would be that you can make your district go in to a lock down where the district can't produce anything but can't be attacked ether.
And to prevent people from abusing this, each district has a production meter that goes down when you're in lock down, and if it hits the bottom you will have to pay a certain amount to keep the district in lock down. And the lower your production bar, the less productive the district is after you come out of lock down. Your production meter will refill when you're out of lock down though. This would make managing multiple districts much easier. Because rather than having to defend a bunch of districts for up to eight hours a day, you can juggle the districts you want to defend at a time.
And if most of your corporation can't play on certain days, than you just put your districts on lock down. But to be fair you should have to set up your schedule a week ahead, so that if other corporations want to attack your districts they will know when they can. This would be a much better build in my opinion because it does't put the smaller corporations at a such huge disadvantage, and it just makes more sense than having to defend all your districts every day. But in the end when you think about this, it evens itself out pretty nicely. If you go in to lock down a lot, you wont get attacked as much but you lose money the longer you do it.
And in contrast, if you are in production a lot you make more money and grow much quicker, but you are going to face more battles and possibly lose districts. Of course you are going to have to iron out details like, how long until your production meter goes down, or how much it regenerates, but this is the basic concept. if you feel that this a good idea, please give me support and share this with as many people as possible, because I would rather see this be used than what they have now.
P.S please give corporations the option to change the attack window. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
154
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Posted - 2013.04.23 08:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Get allies and there are no problems.
PC isn't about playing with one attack team.
16 people cannot and should not be able to hold a planet, let alone a constellation.
If you thought otherwise, you need to research eve-scale fights. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
117
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Posted - 2013.04.23 08:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you are not ready and willing to defend your district then you shouldn't own it. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
305
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Posted - 2013.04.23 08:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
This system could be exploited to create a barrier zone of scorched earth around an alliances main systems. You would have the lockdown first, then a horrible district not worth conquering. If corp takeovers would bump the production back up, the district would be rolled between friendly corps to keep it out of play.
There is an arbitrary mechanic in place for it, that is attacking yourself for continued lockdown. This uses enough isk to be not viable.
A simple way to provide this functionality would be a high cost daily lockdown. Cost should be near 40-60m per day, math needs doing. The good about this would be simulating an existing option but making it simpler.
You have some off assumptions in OP. First would be controlling 6 districts with timeframes - the way to do it sustainably is to set the timers at approx same timeframe and have enough online to def multiple districts. For this you need a big corp or alliance to pull defenders.
The second is controlling 6 districts with a small corp. You need the qualityGÇónumbersGÇócapitalGÇóstrategy to represent 6/250 of dust playerbase for it. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
305
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Posted - 2013.04.23 08:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
The core issue in catering to small entities is, that it just forces big entities to split and work as multiple small ones. This applies to pretty much all available options, and in game it only generates stress and bad times for governing multiple small corps.
The design way that COULD work is to layer the whole system: make a similiar minigame, while having a big game layer too, but lucrative enough to have the big entities focus in the big game. This would make the game complex, and the bullies could just ask for protection money from the minigame players anyhow. Player base would be split. Not good.
When the dust settles, I'm sure you can work out a rental deal if you want to stay small. The power locks will definitely be looking for buffer renters that take the first wave of attacks and pay a portion of their district income. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
715
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 13:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote: When the dust settles, I'm sure you can work out a rental deal if you want to stay small. The power locks will definitely be looking for buffer renters that take the first wave of attacks and pay a portion of their district income.
Blue Donut ahead, sir! Boredom, HO!
Trollsroyce is correct that this is the likely outcome.
CCP has a great deal of difficulty building the game to make it friendly to smaller groups. I think they are trying, and indeed NOT being able to change the timer hurts the big guys ("kaijus") too because it means that they need to have a management structure that can be on 24/7 and lead effective teams of ringers in every time zone.
The small guys ("sharks" and "minnows") at least have to option of confining themselves to one or two districts. The kaijus and "monsters" (mid-to-large) don't really have that luxury if they want to be taken seriously. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
365
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Posted - 2013.04.23 16:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Trolls and Vaerana pretty much summed it up but I'll just add to clarify that you can change the attack/defend window on your own districts whenever they are unlocked; so after taking a new district you just have to wait the 24 hours takeover time to change it to your liking (and hope that you don't get attacked while waiting!) |
Beef Supreme 4
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Now I see everybody's point, and I think they're valid. I know that having an alliance will fix a lot of these problems, but I don't want to be forced to make an alliance because I and my corporation won't do well if we don't. And plus, my system does't put larger corporations at a disadvantage. In fact, larger corporations will be able to get more districts. And it's pretty obvious that a corporation that can keep it's districts at full production all the time verses a smaller corporation that can't, it's still a huge advantage to be a large corporation. But the difference is that smaller corporations are a little bit more on par with bigger ones, and you are less likely to lose a district because you just were not there. |
Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
68
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Beef Supreme 4 wrote:The main problem I have with the current build is that you have to be defending every day, this is a problem for a number of reasons.
This is war. You think war stops because your warriors are tired or wounded?
Beef Supreme 4 wrote:what if a lot of your corporation is off line for whatever reason.
Then you-¦re an unrelaiable contract, and will have your name tarnished around the universe.
Beef Supreme 4 wrote:What if you have say six districts that have to be defended at different times? That's six hours of defending.
If you don-¦t have the manpower to control 6 districts, you-¦ll lose them. Simple as that.
Beef Supreme 4 wrote:The list could go on, but these are the main concerns I have. But here's my solution. The premise would be that you can make your district go in to a lock down where the district can't produce anything but can't be attacked ether.
And to prevent people from abusing this, each district has a production meter that goes down when you're in lock down, and if it hits the bottom you will have to pay a certain amount to keep the district in lock down. And the lower your production bar, the less productive the district is after you come out of lock down. Your production meter will refill when you're out of lock down though. This would make managing multiple districts much easier. Because rather than having to defend a bunch of districts for up to eight hours a day, you can juggle the districts you want to defend at a time.
So, if i create alt corps i can, for an unspecified ammount of time, simply make several (if not most) of the district useless, then simply go AFK and leave them like that, protected? You really can-¦t see the abuse potential here?
Beef Supreme 4 wrote:P.S please give corporations the option to change the attack window.
No. |
Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
68
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Posted - 2013.04.23 17:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Beef Supreme 4 wrote: And if most of your corporation can't play on certain days, than you just put your districts on lock down. But to be fair you should have to set up your schedule a week ahead, so that if other corporations want to attack your districts they will know when they can. This would be a much better build in my opinion because it does't put the smaller corporations at a such huge disadvantage, and it just makes more sense than having to defend all your districts every day. But in the end when you think about this, it evens itself out pretty nicely. If you go in to lock down a lot, you wont get attacked as much but you lose money the longer you do it.
Again, if i-¦m rich enough, after an initial landgrab, i simply take a whole system and lock it down indefinetly, simply paying money for it and making them unavailable to the rest of the game?
Beef Supreme 4 wrote: And in contrast, if you are in production a lot you make more money and grow much quicker, but you are going to face more battles and possibly lose districts. Of course you are going to have to iron out details like, how long until your production meter goes down, or how much it regenerates, but this is the basic concept. if you feel that this a good idea, please give me support and share this with as many people as possible, because I would rather see this be used than what they have now.
No.
If small corps can-¦t handle the pressure, either they get big, efficient, or they should perish and go play in public matches.
This is the big boys and girls game. |
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2845
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor mentioned an idea of possibly delaying ur timers at a cost of reduced clone regen but it wont be in Uprising build they want to see how things play out 1st in the current setup |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD
204
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
lol
oh what sweet fear these noobs bring:
it's purely a "Seinfeld" issue:
"Anyone can take a reservation!! but... it's the HOLDING that matters!"
now replace reservation with planet and you get the idea.
what i see coming is this:
each corp will jock and gargle over the folks who take the planets. no big deal there.
but the ones who have the balls to HOLD those planets and the SKILL to match... those are the guys you want on your team.
no point in building your house 13 stories high if you only have enough maids to clean the first 3 floors.
i see many clans over reaching and taking too much ground to hold and THAT is gonna be funny to watch.
Peace B |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
366
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:CCP Nullarbor mentioned an idea of possibly delaying ur timers at a cost of reduced clone regen but it wont be in Uprising build they want to see how things play out 1st in the current setup Heh, i knew this would happen. He partook in i discussion on that suggestion on purely hypothetical basis but nothing was ever said about CCP actually implementing the idea. |
Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
The issue is simple:
Don-¦t bite what you can-¦t chew.
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Beef Supreme 4
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.04.23 18:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Again, if i-¦m rich enough, after an initial landgrab, i simply take a whole system and lock it down indefinetly, simply paying money for it and making them unavailable to the rest of the game?
It wont be cheep to leave it in lock down, and that's the point. and while you are in lock down you don't make anything, and when you come back it will take a while to get back to full production. |
Natu Nobilis
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Beef Supreme 4 wrote:Again, if i-¦m rich enough, after an initial landgrab, i simply take a whole system and lock it down indefinetly, simply paying money for it and making them unavailable to the rest of the game?
It wont be cheep to leave it in lock down, and that's the point. and while you are in lock down you don't make anything, and when you come back it will take a while to get back to full production.
I-¦m talking game mechanic and principle here.
Titans were thought to be so expensive that no one would have them. Now they-¦re in over abundance in EVE.
If it-¦s expensive, people will pay, be it with isk, be it with RL money.
Goonswarm alliance name is under lock because the old leader left the game, and he has enough money to pay for the bils of mainaing the name for another 6 years at least. All that while not playing the game anymore.
If you create a mechanic where money (isk or aurum) can hold a district, be sure, people will abuse it.
I-¦m not talking "diminished returns" or "zeroing revenue" on a locked down district. I-¦m talking people paying for it to be locked down, just to be locked down.
If this were to happen, we would soon see revolts to have Agrarian Reform, because that-¦s the issue here. |
Beef Supreme 4
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Natu Nobilis wrote:Beef Supreme 4 wrote:Again, if i-¦m rich enough, after an initial landgrab, i simply take a whole system and lock it down indefinetly, simply paying money for it and making them unavailable to the rest of the game?
It wont be cheep to leave it in lock down, and that's the point. and while you are in lock down you don't make anything, and when you come back it will take a while to get back to full production. I-¦m talking game mechanic and principle here. Titans were thought to be so expensive that no one would have them. Now they-¦re in over abundance in EVE. If it-¦s expensive, people will pay, be it with isk, be it with RL money. Goonswarm alliance name is under lock because the old leader left the game, and he has enough money to pay for the bils of mainaing the name for another 6 years at least. All that while not playing the game anymore. If you create a mechanic where money (isk or aurum) can hold a district, be sure, people will abuse it. I-¦m not talking "diminished returns" or "zeroing revenue" on a locked down district. I-¦m talking people paying for it to be locked down, just to be locked down. If this were to happen, we would soon see revolts to have Agrarian Reform, because that-¦s the issue here.
Yeah I see your point, perhaps if your production meter goes down all the way you have to set a time for it to be attacked or put it on the free market. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1228
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:trollsroyce wrote: When the dust settles, I'm sure you can work out a rental deal if you want to stay small. The power locks will definitely be looking for buffer renters that take the first wave of attacks and pay a portion of their district income.
Blue Donut ahead, sir! Boredom, HO! Trollsroyce is correct that this is the likely outcome. CCP has a great deal of difficulty building the game to make it friendly to smaller groups. I think they are trying, and indeed NOT being able to change the timer hurts the big guys ("kaijus") too because it means that they need to have a management structure that can be on 24/7 and lead effective teams of ringers in every time zone. The small guys ("sharks" and "minnows") at least have to option of confining themselves to one or two districts. The kaijus and "monsters" (mid-to-large) don't really have that luxury if they want to be taken seriously.
http://i.imgur.com/bAGc3GB.jpg |
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