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Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
260
   |
Posted - 2013.04.21 12:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
There do not seem to be threads about corp battles in the Rookie Training Grounds. I have made posts here and there, but I figure it will be easiest to combine many things into one thread, and post it all together. I feel it is important to know what some options are because after this SP refund, you might never be able to respec again.
I've been calling some suits and builds not viable for corp battles, so I figured I'd go over what I have seen work in 8v8 format and what does not. Hopefully most of the downsides will be fixed in the next build, which is 15 days away. 16v16 corp battles will help make some roles more valuable too.
Some of this information will most likely work in 16v16 format too. This is all information that the top corps already know. It is just basic builds. The basics will apply to the next build, but the names and combinations of the different suits might change.
Suits are:
Assault
Logistics
Heavy
Scout
Assault + Assault Rifle: The normal assault circle holder, the typical ground-pounder. You need a few of them. They can assault objectives and defend your own. From experience, armor tanking never works, even if the armor tanked players are stacking damage mods. It simply does not have the survivability and mobility that shield tanks do.
Logistics + Assault Rifle: Same role as the Assault + Assault Rifle, however the logistics suit is better in almost every way, but this is only true for the prototype vk.1 logistics dropsuit. As I indicated before, speed is one of the most important things in this game, and the logistics vk.1 is faster than the Assault. The logistics suit also has a high stamina pool, and it recovers stamina at a rate that is higher than even a scout. Logistics dropsuit can get to where it needs to be much easier than the assault can.
The logistics vk.1 has four high slots and four low slots, allowing a player to equip eight modules. The vk.0 assault suit only has three high and four low, so a player can only equip seven modules. The vk.1 assault suit has four high and three low, so again a player can only equip seven modules. The logistics suit also has more equipment slots than an assault suit.
And to put the final nail in the coffin, the logistics suit has more PG and more CPU than the assault.
So what does the logistics suit lose?
A sidearm, but once mercs get to the prototype level, mercs will probably have officer weapons too. Officer weapons can only be obtained from loot/salvage at the end of a match. Mercs will get this amazing assault rifle called a Baloc. Balocs are amazing, and mercs will tear through almost anyone with it. Corp battles are all about team play, so one member of a team can cover the other while he takes a few seconds to reload a new 72 round mag.
Logistics suits do have slightly lower base HP than an assault suit, and the shield recharge delay is 5.0 seconds instead of 4.8. This difference is not enough to make the assault suit as good as the logistics suit.
Hopefully there will not be a "this dropsuit can do everything" in the next build.
2) Assault + Laser Rifle: Lasers are fun, and you usually want one on your team. The can do long range attacks (longer than assault can) and can tear up shields. You might not get as many kills as the assault players do in corp battles, but you will be helping out your team a lot. Definitely look up how to use laser rifles before using them yourself. (They have an interesting mechanic where they do low damage in close range, and high damage when long. You also do more damage the longer you hold down on the trigger, but it's not heat build up, so letting go will reset.)
Logistics + Laser Rifle: Again, the logistics dropsuit is the "best at everything" dropsuit. This combination also works well in corp battles because you are working with a team. This is not recommended for use in pub games, because you do not have a sidearm. You have to trust your teammates to give you the support you need so you can give them the support they need.
Medic/Engineer: So guess what dropsuit is best for this too? :3 Yup, logistics. This is probably the most obvious use of a logistics suit. Logistics suits have more equipment slots than any other, and as a medic or engineer you will need to make frequent use of your equipment. It is also easy to do both roles at the same time, but it is recommended that you have a supply depot nearby. You can change between medic and engineer at the supply depot. It is not recommended that you try to do both at the same time. You won't be effective at all.
Mass Driver: Fun and slightly annoying weapon. Easy to use if you're familiar with the mechanic. It works just like the alt fire of the flak cannon in Unreal. There's no need to aim, so you can just "thunk" your way to victory with this n00b tube. If you have only played EVE and are not familiar with FPS or Console games, you may find this weapon hard to use. I cannot personally say that, but every time I make a comment about mass drivers being easy to use, someone from EVE says that they are the hardest weapon in the game. |
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Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
260
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 12:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Assault/Logistics Shotgun: CQC weapon. Again, best on logi, second best on assault, and terrible on heavies and scouts. (more on this later.) It is also valuable if you are a HAV drivers may not have the points in assault skills that assault players do. You can do a fair amount of damage with a shotgun with no sp in anything infantry related. You will also probably be trying to kill AV, so that means some dude with a swarm launcher with an SMG or Scrambler pistol, or some dude with a forge gun at close range and a SMG/Scrambler pistol.
Assault/Logistics Sniper: A good thread to read on assault or logistics dropsuit is this one here. Both have strengths and weaknesses.
So the sniping role is hard to use in the current 8v8 corp battles, and usually is not needed at all. Again, all maps are three point maps, and the red line is push in a lot. This means that almost everywhere a sniper can hit, a laser can too. Snipers also cannot get far enough out of battle to be safe.
Snipers cannot cover most objectives. There are a few here and there, but for the most part, if someone gets on an objective, a sniper cannot stop the hack. Some people like to think that a sniper can hold off enemy troops from reaching an objective, but this is usually not true. Enemy troops can get to the objectives in a vehicle, and then use that vehicle for cover. Running together towards an objective will result in casualties, but you'll almost always get someone to the objective who can complete the hack. Usually a laser is better to have than a sniper rifle, because the laser can move around while he "camps" an objective, and the sniper cannot.
Snipers can work well as counter snipers, but since snipers cannot cover hacks, why not just let the enemy team get free kills while you red line them? :3
I thought snipers were meh until recently. One found a nice place to snipe from, and was able to kill any AV for a certain portion of the map. I was able to drive my HAV around and not worry about enemy AV, which was nice. I'm still skeptical about bringing a sniper to 8v8 corp battles, but they would definitely be useful in 16v16, especially if the maps become bigger. Sometimes it is nice to have one run with the team, but with the restrictive roster, it's not always best.
Heavy + HMG/Forge Gun: It's a nice combination to have. You get good AV, and you get a good close to medium range defender. I've never played a heavy, so I cannot say anything more about them than that.
Scout + Anything: Again, the scout dropsuit is at a disadvantage to every other dropsuit in the game. You can use it, just know that whatever you want to use it for can be done better by another dropsuit. |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
260
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 12:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Profile Dampening: The 8v8 corp battle maps are much smaller than in pub games. There are only three objectives. This means that in most maps you cannot sneak around. The only big map is Manus Peak, but it is wide open and hard to sneak around when there are 8 guys looking for you. If you're dropping uplinks everywhere, go with the logistics suit.
Verdict:
>>Profile Dampening<< seems to be a worthless stat in Corp Battles.
Also, some people like to think that the scout suit is best for sneaking around, but thanks to this post by Maken Tosch we now know that logi suits can have a smaller profile than scout. Well, you can see everything there for yourself. Logistics has better stamina control, so you'll be able to travel for a long time.
A lot of people have luck "sneaking" behind enemy lines to plant REs and hack objectives, but this should not work in corp battles. You should also not be able to surprise anyone, even if you do not show up on an enemy's radar.
This is a normal FPS skill which takes a long time to master. In short, if you get shot in your back, you ****** up. If you get ambushed while running past a corner, you ****** up. If you die because someone does not show up on your radar, you ****** up. If you let someone hack an objective behind you, you ****** up.
Simple, no? :3
In corp battles you need to take advantage of choke points. Choke points are areas which your enemy needs to pass, and if you do it right, you should be looking down a long hallway or valley. If the enemy wants to reach you or an objective, the enemy must come out into the open and run down a hallway, valley, bridge or something similar to reach you. As you can imagine, profile dampening does not help if you have to charge at someone.
Sometimes people say, "but what if they miss a choke point?" Well, that means they ****** up. If an enemy fucks up and leaves a space open for an entire team, you don't need to have one specific skill to take advantage of that situation. Profile dampening can be useful, so there's nothing wrong with throwing a few points into it, but do not take up a valuable mod slot for it.
Some people like to use profile dampening on snipers, but that does not work well in corp battles. It is even worse on a scout suit. Corp battle maps are small. If a sniper can cover an objective, it is so rare that you will know *exactly* where he is. Usually you can see snipers, even if they do not have a red mark on their head anyways. If you're sniping in a corp battle, survivability is extremely important. Scouts can be destroyed by almost everything.
Scanning: This has been full of bugs, so it sometimes does not function as intended. Also, see post above ^.^
and by popular request...
The Shotgun Scout: Again, one of those things that sometimes works in pub games, but should never work in corp battles. In corp battles, everyone will be in proto gear with officer weapons. Scouts have terrible survivability, and if someone is using an officer weapon, all they have to do is sneeze and a scout will fall over. If you're using a shotgun, use an assault or even better, a logistics suit. You can take another look at this thread by Maken Tosch here, and look at the stats of the dropsuits themselves.
Keep in mind that a good team will make good use of choke points, and not allow any player to sneak up on them. If you're assaulting, you should be expecting an ambush on your way to the choke point, at the choke point, on your way to the objective, and on the objective. If you pretend that there is a red dot with a shotgun around every corner, his dampening will not matter. One funny thing I like to do is have one assault sprint past a corner while a firing squad is waiting behind him. Some n00b shotgun scout always tries to take a shot at him, and walks right in front of the firing squad. If the shotgunner manages to kill the guy, someone else has a nanite injector and can pick him up again.
So as a shotgun user, you *will* need to charge at your opponent at some time. Do you want to do this in a weak suit that can be killed by anything, or in a suit that can take some damage, and has speed mods to make it run faster? You can easily get above 9m/s sprint in a logistics suit. (I did that on an alt, it is so awesome. That is faster than the base of a scout!)
If you'd like to have fun as a "stealth scout" I suggest using scrambler pistols. That way you won't look like a n00b, and you can still one shot plenty of people in the face. Keep in mind that there are no silencers in this game, and shotguns have a loud and distinctive sound. If you're in a well tanked assault or logistics suit, it's fine, but expect to be destroyed if you're in a scout suit.
I have also discovered something awesome for team scout suit play. If you're running with a mass driver, assault rifle, laser, sniper or shotgun user, for some reason the enemies always seem to target those guys first. You can run around corners and behind stuff and usually they'll just completely ignore you! If you start shooting one of them, usually only that one guy will target you instead of your teammates, and all of the other enemies will continue to focus on players other than yourself. I did one game and went like 32/5 on my scrambler pistol only scout. It was a lot of fun. |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
260
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 12:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
In summary:
> Logistics suit is the best at almost everything.
> Scout is fighting at a disadvantage against any other suit.
> You should try to get a combination of the roles above.
> Snipers should become much more effective in 16v16.
I hope that CCP will:
> Makes scout suits significantly stronger.
> Makes a variety of new dropsuits so that the logistics is not the best at almost everything.
> Allows corp battles to happen on bigger maps.
About the RP/MMO aspect:
I always get someone commenting about this. I am making this thread because there are almost none with information about corp battles. Corporations fighting corporations will hopefully be the focus in DUST514. There are plenty of threads about the RP/MMO aspect in the General section on forums.
Personally, I like to focus on the pwn face first. If I was able to respec I would have more options, but unfortunately I cannot. If I have to choose between pure RP/MMO or pure FPS, I choose FPS. I have plenty of alts, so I do whatever I want on them. Alts allow me to be an effective player while taking advantage of everything else the game has to offer. I love my alts, especially because I can try new things on them. I planned out how to spend over 12mil SP before the refund, and until a week or two ago when we found out about the SP refund, I followed my SP plan for over 8 million SP.
After the refund, I am probably not going to put any of my SP into anything for at least a week or two. I'll just play to hit the SP cap while I figure out what I'm going to do and how I'm going to do it. I like to run around killing people in ADV gear without spending any SP and using all MLT gear, so I can do that too ^.^ What other players choose to do is up to them.
I might have missed some things I could have added, but for now this seems to be enough. Enjoy ^.^ |
RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die
53
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 14:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seems like armor mods need a serious buff |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1264
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 15:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
The whole 8v8 thing is pretty stupid anyway. It takes 8 people to make a dropship very effective (1 pilot, 2 gunners, 4 people jumping out, and 1 sniper to spot for them and kill AVers) |
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