DUST Search - CPM 0 : Nova Knife says stuff

Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:

Noc Tempre wrote:

Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:

So you prefer a system where people are voted in or a system where CCP picks individuals?

You suffer with disadvantages and tinfoil hattery with either no matter what you pick. The issue is what's the lesser evil?..

I'm a big fan of CCP picking their own reps each term. because popularity and corp will not come into it at all and you won't see a bloc vote like we currently have in CSM8, because it's highly possibly we'll have voted in every single person in the CSM from our bloc's votes alone. At the least we'll have over 50% of the people elected in.

I really do hope you're very serious about making sure people don't get a free ride because that was my biggest concern and something i wanted to address personally.

It's not binary. In fact, I would say representative democracy isn't the right solution for this issue at all.

Then how about you propose something rather than just saying "this is wrong, that's wrong and that's not going to work either" and put your money where your own mouth is?

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Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 838	Posted - 2013.04.20 06:06:00 - [1] - Quote We're apparently make posts like this, I guess? I'm going to make this short and sweet. Anyways: I want to make this clear. I did not want this spot. I had every intention of saying no when they approached me. The only reason I said yes, is because I've seen the flaws in the way the Eve CSM has worked for years. An organization that had potential to do amazing things was always hindered by half or more of its members being "dead weight." CSM has struggled for years to be taken seriously, and I think that if every member was pulling their weight it could've done a whole lot more as an organization over the years. Dolan's Initial post about the CPM said the primary objective of the CPM0 is to decide how future CPM members will be chosen. My intent is to ensure that CPM never suffers from 'dead weight'. The only people who should have the opportunity to do something like this are the people that are going to bust their asses to do a good job of it. If a member is not up to the task, there needs to be a quick, painless and drama free way to relieve them of their responsibilities, and/or replace them. The last thing I want is for the CPM to become a position of prestige and popularity like the EVE CSM, where the position itself is more important to people than actually doing good for the game. I have no intention of doing this CPM thing again after I accomplish (or fail) in this effort. I'm not going to say something inspirational. My belief is that if you need credit or a fancy title to do something... you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons. While my main objective is clear: The CPM will probably be doing other stuff. As I said in my 'Bio' on the announcement blog: Get me in your channels. Squad with me. Interacting with other players is the reason we play online games in the first place, and chatting with folks idly is just as fun to me as actually playing. Seeing and hearing how differing people play and see the game are things that fascinate me. Anyone who wants to contact me out of game can easily do so on IRC via irc.coldfront.net in #dust514, on twitter via @Nova_knife, or via Skype as nova_knife. (Anyone can IM me via Skype without being on my list, if you want to voice chat just IM me with what you want to talk about beforehand and I'll get back to you ASAP) I'll also be setting up a new eve character tomorrow and edit the name into this post. in order to increase the amount of channels I'm in since dust has a limit of 12 channels per character.
Mithridates VI DUST 411 874	Posted - 2013.04.20 06:17:00 - [2] - Quote I don't always write inauguration speechs. But when I do, I'm AFKing in the MCC at the same time.
Lord-of-the-Dreadfort The Lions Guard 34	Posted - 2013.04.20 06:17:00 - [3] - Quote +2
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 701	Posted - 2013.04.20 06:18:00 - [4] - Quote I've noticed you're not in a corporation. Care to comment on why people find you so unlikeable as to not be able to even join up with the corps that accept anybody?
Lord-of-the-Dreadfort The Lions Guard 34	Posted - 2013.04.20 06:20:00 - [5] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: I've noticed you're not in a corporation. Care to comment on why people find you so unlikeable as to not be able to even join up with the corps that accept anybody? who, me?
Noraa Anderson Nox Aeterna Security 189	Posted - 2013.04.20 06:23:00 - [6] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: I've noticed you're not in a corporation. Care to comment on why people find you so unlikeable as to not be able to even join up with the corps that accept anybody? Nova Knife is king of the blueberries. His subjects are very loyal.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 1	Posted - 2013.04.20 08:37:00 - [7] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: I've noticed you're not in a corporation. Care to comment on why people find you so unlikeable as to not be able to even join up with the corps that accept anybody? Actually, I'm not in a corporation. Completely different thing.
La Fortune Terranauts 64	Posted - 2013.04.20 09:40:00 - [8] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: I've noticed you're not in a corporation. Care to comment on why people find you so unlikeable as to not be able to even join up with the corps that accept anybody? To be perfectly honest, Nova Knife is the only person I've seen on these forums who makes consistently good posts and has been genuinely helpful since I can remember starting this Beta, which was nearly a year a go now.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 350	Posted - 2013.04.20 10:02:00 - [9] - Quote Always good to see people on representative bodies who have no agendas or ego problems. You guys are going to have a hell of a task to keep it that way if/when elections get involved.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3576	Posted - 2013.04.20 14:05:00 - [10] - Quote Nova Knife has been pretty good in keeping me in line. He has the rolled up newspaper.

Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries 206	Posted - 2013.04.20 14:54:00 - [11] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: I don't always write inauguration speechs. But when I do, I'm AFKing in the MCC at the same time. Had to +1 since the first time I saw Nova Knife after seeing he was elected was when he was AFK SP farming.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 912	Posted - 2013.04.20 15:17:00 - [12] - Quote I like the OP a lot Nova... But how do you intended to stop dead weight on the CPM?.. I initially suggested that CCP should continue to handpick members, no voting and give them the right the remove people at a moments notice if they don't contribute.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 256	Posted - 2013.04.20 15:42:00 - [13] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: I like the OP a lot Nova... But how do you intended to stop dead weight on the CPM?.. I initially suggested that CCP should continue to handpick members, no voting and give them the right the remove people at a moments notice if they don't contribute. Thats defo 2 members gone already if it was in now, maybe 3
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2561	Posted - 2013.04.20 15:43:00 - [14] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: I like the OP a lot Nova... But how do you intended to stop dead weight on the CPM?.. I initially suggested that CCP should continue to handpick members, no voting and give them the right the remove people at a moments notice if they don't contribute. I can think of a few ideas. Simplest being a "vote of no confidence" option for either CPMs, the general playerbase or both. If someone who isn't active can be called out and there's actually a process by which they can be stripped of title and replaced, there will be more solid incentive to take the position seriously. I'd also recommend that there be a limit on how often someone can take a CPM role, because if you know you're not being given any lasting semblance of authority, you're generally more likely to behave sensibly with whatever amount of power you have. Also, this would help CCP to meet a larger cross-section of the playerbase than just the hardest-of-hardcore players like EVE's CSM tends to attract.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2057	Posted - 2013.04.20 16:10:00 - [15] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: I like the OP a lot Nova... But how do you intended to stop dead weight on the CPM?.. I initially suggested that CCP should continue to handpick members, no voting and give them the right the remove people at a moments notice if they don't contribute. In that case, it won't work because the players will feel that they have no voice on the matter. The only way players can feel that they have a voice on anything is when they are given a chance to directly vote for a candidate.

ChribbaX Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions 298	Posted - 2013.04.20 16:29:00 - [16] - Quote I for one, fully hearten approve of CPM0 (even though ti feels wrong to say CPM0) - I have all the confidence in all members chosen to make this the best start the planets could have! /c

Yay Adski Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 189	Posted - 2013.04.20 16:40:00 - [17] - Quote Look at all the IRC scrubs who are bad at the game getting the power. Love you though babycakes <3
crazy space 1 ZionTCD 998	Posted - 2013.04.20 16:50:00 - [18] - Quote You were my only real choice nova, I'm glad they picked you
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 848	Posted - 2013.04.20 18:01:00 - [19] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: I like the OP a lot Nova... But how do you intended to stop dead weight on the CPM?.. I initially suggested that CCP should continue to handpick members, no voting and give them the right the remove people at a moments notice if they don't contribute. This is something that I would bet money will come up on the CPM roundtable at fanfest. Going to do my best to record every dust roundtable and get them posted on Dust514base nightly at fanfest, if possible! My recording equipment (Fancy word for smartphone) hasn't been tested in such conditions so I have no idea how good the audio will be from a big room like that.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 913	Posted - 2013.04.20 20:12:00 - [20] - Quote Look forward to it, i missed the roundtables last year because there was nobody recording them. Having said that, i'd very much like to hear your reply to my question prior to the roundtable next week.

Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 853	Posted - 2013.04.21 16:55:00 - [21] - Quote @ CW : This is something people on IRC argued like crazy about since people first started talking about a CSM for dust, long before the War Council post by Dolan. People in Eve have been arguing about it for even longer. As a group, the CPM is still organizing itself and right now we've mostly been in the process of setting up communications so such discussions can take place in earnest. My personal view though.. Is that the CPM moving forward after CPM0 is either going to be a representative body with feedback as the primary motivation, or it's going to be a representative body with popularity/epeen as a motivation for someone expressing interest. I strongly believe that someone being popular does not make them a good candidate. No one should get in by 'merit' of having a couple hundred or thousand corporation and alliance mates behind them. This is the primary reason we get "Dead weight" on the Eve CSM. Candidates often care more about the popularity, prestige, and perks of the position more than they care about the responsibilities the position carries with it. I personally don't feel that politics has any real place in a proper feedback process. The Eve CSM election campaigns are an Ocean of pride, drama, and alt wars. Seeing the same thing for Dust is one of my worst fears. I don't know if the CPM is going to stick with 5 people. The 'real' CPM after this one might be bigger. Either way, I'd rather see a full council of people ready and willing to bust their asses, than only have a couple people rocking out while the rest sit there looking smug because they're 'officially' popular. That's my stance on it. What comes from it, only time will tell :)
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1305	Posted - 2013.04.21 21:34:00 - [22] - Quote What are your opinions on how the CPM should be structured moving forward. Is a representative body even necessary in today's age of ubiquitous instant communication? What benefit do you provide to making my interests known to CCP?
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 917	Posted - 2013.04.21 22:51:00 - [23] - Quote So you prefer a system where people are voted in or a system where CCP picks individuals? You suffer with disadvantages and tinfoil hattery with either no matter what you pick. The issue is what's the lesser evil?.. I'm a big fan of CCP picking their own reps each term. because popularity and corp will not come into it at all and you won't see a bloc vote like we currently have in CSM8, because it's highly possibly we'll have voted in every single person in the CSM from our bloc's votes alone. At the least we'll have over 50% of the people elected in. I really do hope you're very serious about making sure people don't get a free ride because that was my biggest concern and something i wanted to address personally.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1305	Posted - 2013.04.21 22:55:00 - [24] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: So you prefer a system where people are voted in or a system where CCP picks individuals? You suffer with disadvantages and tinfoil hattery with either no matter what you pick. The issue is what's the lesser evil?.. I'm a big fan of CCP picking their own reps each term. because popularity and corp will not come into it at all and you won't see a bloc vote like we currently have in CSM8, because it's highly possibly we'll have voted in every single person in the CSM from our bloc's votes alone. At the least we'll have over 50% of the people elected in. I really do hope you're very serious about making sure people don't get a free ride because that was my biggest concern and something i wanted to address personally. It's not binary. In fact, I would say representative democracy isn't the right solution for this issue at all.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 917	Posted - 2013.04.21 22:57:00 - [25] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: So you prefer a system where people are voted in or a system where CCP picks individuals? You suffer with disadvantages and tinfoil hattery with either no matter what you pick. The issue is what's the lesser evil?.. I'm a big fan of CCP picking their own reps each term. because popularity and corp will not come into it at all and you won't see a bloc vote like we currently have in CSM8, because it's highly possibly we'll have voted in every single person in the CSM from our bloc's votes alone. At the least we'll have over 50% of the people elected in. I really do hope you're very serious about making sure people don't get a free ride because that was my biggest concern and something i wanted to address personally. It's not binary. In fact, I would say representative democracy isn't the right solution for this issue at all. Then how about you propose something rather than just saying "this is wrong, that's wrong and that's not going to work either" and put your money where your own mouth is?
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1305	Posted - 2013.04.21 23:03:00 - [26] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: So you prefer a system where people are voted in or a system where CCP picks individuals? You suffer with disadvantages and tinfoil hattery with either no matter what you pick. The issue is what's the lesser evil?.. I'm a big fan of CCP picking their own reps each term. because popularity and corp will not come into it at all and you won't see a bloc vote like we currently have in CSM8, because it's highly possibly we'll have voted in every single person in the CSM from our bloc's votes alone. At the least we'll have over 50% of the people elected in. I really do hope you're very serious about making sure people don't get a free ride because that was my biggest concern and something i wanted to address personally. It's not binary. In fact, I would say representative democracy isn't the right solution for this issue at all. Then how about you propose something rather than just saying "this is wrong, that's wrong and that's not going to work either" and put your money where your own mouth is? Because I want the CPM to respond on their ideas first.
WE LOVE ReGnUM Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.04.21 23:19:00 - [27] - Quote @ Nova Knife In then span of almost three months you have accumulated a total of about 100 000 WPs. Its seems to me like you gave up on this build a long time ago. Furthermore, it seems your just waiting on the sidelines for something better. I don't want anybody representing me, who gives up when the going gets tough. Even if you never wanted it in the first place. The CPM needs real dedication and commitment. Anyways, I think your a cool guy and all, but you sitting on the council does not sit well with me.
Gaff Origami ZionTCD 57	Posted - 2013.04.23 01:48:00 - [28] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: I want to make this clear. I did not want this spot. I had every intention of saying no when they approached me. The only reason I said yes, is because I was offered a free trip to Iceland... (smirk)
Mithridates VI DUST 411 935	Posted - 2013.04.23 01:53:00 - [29] - Quote Gaff Origami wrote: Nova Knife wrote: I want to make this clear. I did not want this spot. I had every intention of saying no when they approached me. The only reason I said yes, is because I was offered a free trip to Iceland... QQ (smirk)


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