DUST Search - why heavys are becoming useless

BattleCry1791 wrote:

Before reading the below, please understand...a Heavy is a guy with an HMG or a Forge gun. Any other combo is just BS.

1) Heavies are virtually worthless at range
There are only a couple of maps where Heavies are really "OP"d. The rest we get out ranged easily. And guys see us, shoot at us, and then run away. There are some maps I don't even bother running a a Heavy, even though 90% of my 8mill SP's are invested in it.

2) Heavies are not gods
When I'm not running as a Heavy, I use a Skinweave BPO with one enhanced and once complex damage mod on an exile. And I regularly kill heavies with it. Solo. On my Logi running a Type A or B with three Complex Extenders and two enhanced plates with a repper I almost ALWAYS win in a fight against tanked heavies since I'm doing more DMG and have close to the same EHP.

3) Heavy gear is ridiculously expensive
It just is. Look at the prices. You can fit an entire Assault rig that's pretty decked out in Proto gear for the coast of one of our guns. The Proto AR is all over this game, but only the fool hardy, try harders, or just plain don't give a damns, will run a boundless in a pub match.

4) We're slow, and man, the only thing larger than our hit box is your mother's ass.
Seriously. This is something EVERYONE overlooks when talking about heavies. Our hit box is freaking HUGE. We're easy to out maneuver, we can't jump any where, and unless you're a complete idiot, you should see us coming. TBH, I wish I had run a scout this build and built him up to see how that hit detection works, because ADV Scouts give me fits with the hit detection all day long. Also, we're laser meat. There is no "making the corner" as a heavy, there is no "hopping away" as a heavy, there is no "ring around the rosie" and let my shields and armor regen faster that you can reload...as a heavy you either kill or be killed. There is no other option. While most of you are running from MD's and Lasers, we're swearing at the TV and respawning.

5) We are not a support class.
We are the class that NEEDS support. We can't carry ammo and yes, we damn well SHOULD win most of our 1v1s, but we're designed for prolonged combat and to engage multiple enemies. Problem there, is that we need to be rep'd and we need to reload. It's not unusual to use half a magazine to take down guys at range. And our reload time is ridiculous. Also, can't carry any equipment. The only way to make WP is to kill, blow up tanks, and capture points. We are designed for one singular purpose. Patrol a choke point and crush anything that comes through it. In that role, we excel. In all others...not so much.

6) Our proto gear blows
For this build, our Proto gear was fairly worthless. It's only advantage was the additional CPU/PG. Let me tell you what it takes to equip a Boundless on a VK.0...it takes HMG upgrade and proficiency skills as well as side arm upgrade to level 4 to even think about filling out all 3 Highs, 2 lows, as well as side arm and nades. Especially if you want to go three complex damage mods.
There's not a heavy on this board that hasn't said to himself at some point...lemme see...which one do I need less...nades or a side arm? ....in order to fit his Hi, low, and main weapon slot due to the hilariously high CPU costs of our weapons and the equally ludicrously low CPU we are provided. And that's on the Type A/B suits, much less the vaunted Type II.

If Heavies were the best option in this game that's the only thing you'd see in Pub rooms and especially in CB's. Despite what my clan mate may say, that is not the case. Assault is still the main focus of the game as it's more flexible and allows for faster gameplay. And unless CCP really hoses things, it should always be that way. Heavy class isn't just a different playstyle, it's a state of mind. You have to enjoy a meat grinder.

As I have said in other threads. If you don't run heavy, don't talk about what's wrong or right with the Heavy. Because if you don't have at least 3 Mill SP in the Heavy, then you can't understand the Heavy.

Do you even HMG, bro?


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Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 167	Posted - 2013.04.25 15:12:00 - [1] - Quote BattleCry1791 wrote: Before reading the below, please understand...a Heavy is a guy with an HMG or a Forge gun. Any other combo is just BS. 1) Heavies are virtually worthless at range There are only a couple of maps where Heavies are really "OP"d. The rest we get out ranged easily. And guys see us, shoot at us, and then run away. There are some maps I don't even bother running a a Heavy, even though 90% of my 8mill SP's are invested in it. 2) Heavies are not gods When I'm not running as a Heavy, I use a Skinweave BPO with one enhanced and once complex damage mod on an exile. And I regularly kill heavies with it. Solo. On my Logi running a Type A or B with three Complex Extenders and two enhanced plates with a repper I almost ALWAYS win in a fight against tanked heavies since I'm doing more DMG and have close to the same EHP. 3) Heavy gear is ridiculously expensive It just is. Look at the prices. You can fit an entire Assault rig that's pretty decked out in Proto gear for the coast of one of our guns. The Proto AR is all over this game, but only the fool hardy, try harders, or just plain don't give a damns, will run a boundless in a pub match. 4) We're slow, and man, the only thing larger than our hit box is your mother's ass. Seriously. This is something EVERYONE overlooks when talking about heavies. Our hit box is freaking HUGE. We're easy to out maneuver, we can't jump any where, and unless you're a complete idiot, you should see us coming. TBH, I wish I had run a scout this build and built him up to see how that hit detection works, because ADV Scouts give me fits with the hit detection all day long. Also, we're laser meat. There is no "making the corner" as a heavy, there is no "hopping away" as a heavy, there is no "ring around the rosie" and let my shields and armor regen faster that you can reload...as a heavy you either kill or be killed. There is no other option. While most of you are running from MD's and Lasers, we're swearing at the TV and respawning. 5) We are not a support class. We are the class that NEEDS support. We can't carry ammo and yes, we damn well SHOULD win most of our 1v1s, but we're designed for prolonged combat and to engage multiple enemies. Problem there, is that we need to be rep'd and we need to reload. It's not unusual to use half a magazine to take down guys at range. And our reload time is ridiculous. Also, can't carry any equipment. The only way to make WP is to kill, blow up tanks, and capture points. We are designed for one singular purpose. Patrol a choke point and crush anything that comes through it. In that role, we excel. In all others...not so much. 6) Our proto gear blows For this build, our Proto gear was fairly worthless. It's only advantage was the additional CPU/PG. Let me tell you what it takes to equip a Boundless on a VK.0...it takes HMG upgrade and proficiency skills as well as side arm upgrade to level 4 to even think about filling out all 3 Highs, 2 lows, as well as side arm and nades. Especially if you want to go three complex damage mods. There's not a heavy on this board that hasn't said to himself at some point...lemme see...which one do I need less...nades or a side arm? ....in order to fit his Hi, low, and main weapon slot due to the hilariously high CPU costs of our weapons and the equally ludicrously low CPU we are provided. And that's on the Type A/B suits, much less the vaunted Type II. If Heavies were the best option in this game that's the only thing you'd see in Pub rooms and especially in CB's. Despite what my clan mate may say, that is not the case. Assault is still the main focus of the game as it's more flexible and allows for faster gameplay. And unless CCP really hoses things, it should always be that way. Heavy class isn't just a different playstyle, it's a state of mind. You have to enjoy a meat grinder. As I have said in other threads. If you don't run heavy, don't talk about what's wrong or right with the Heavy. Because if you don't have at least 3 Mill SP in the Heavy, then you can't understand the Heavy. Do you even HMG, bro? Testify!
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 167	Posted - 2013.04.25 16:08:00 - [2] - Quote Salazar Skye-fire wrote: do you hipfire or ADS? secondly, whats your sensitivity set at? the 900 armor alone with anything close to proficiency spec in your weapon should 1v1 easily. See here's the problem... Assault has only moderately less HP than us, but the assault can strafe. If assault strafes well, he will avoid a lot of gunfire, thus completely negating a lot of DPS all at once. The heavy, however, strafes poorly. He is fat, he is slow. Regardless of his EHP, the assault is going to be getting damn near full DPS on him immediately with minimal, if any, shots missed... Which unfortunately more than negates the HP advantage the heavy had. Then, another problem. The HMG has to spool up to reach maximum accuracy and, at most ranges, that also means maximum dps due to the fact that the smaller hitboxes on assaults/scouts will simply avoid damage even if stationary. In a typical scenario you have an assault headbutting the heavy from mid range. They see each other at the same time, they start firing. The assault begins strafing and avoids a great deal of damage while putting out his full DPS on the heavy. The heavy takes all the damage, and by the time his weapon is fully spooled up, even if he isn't completely off-axis from the strafing, he is already half dead. The DPS race always favors the assault, so if both players have equal skill with no outside factors intervening, the assault will always win. The one, and ONLY exception is the Burst HMG if aimed perfectly. Anyone who is anyone knows that this weapon could be the most deadly weapon in the entire game, except for its one fatal downfall -- The netcode. Strafing opponents makes it incredibly difficult to aim this thing perfectly due to the uncontrollable spread, the requirement to stay perfectly still while using it for accuracy, and the bizarre manner in which you have to predict your opponents change in movement far before it happens and fire in a completely different direction than the one they are traveling by a good meter or two. Heavies can and do dominate in this game, but that has more to do with the incredible incompetence of most other players and the fact that HMG's are designed to chew up militia suits and stationary targets like paper.