DUST Search - Making nova knifes more usefull.

The dark cloud wrote:

Well nova knifes are pretty crap how they are at the moment and i would like to contribute some ideas to make them better.

1-get rid of the charge up
2- make it possible to stab people while sprinting
3-to balance the no charge time it should use up stamina
4-when approaching a enemy from behind you should be aible to grab him and perform a stealth kill by slitting his throat. Like you get behind some 1 and press R1/melee while having the nova knifes equipped to grab the guy and perform a insta kill. This will only work if the enemy is facing his back to you. During that animation you are totally exposed and can be shot quite easy. This function will ignore the kind of dropsuit, HP and other stuff.

i know people will disagree with me on the throat slitting part but they are supposed to cut trough dropsuits like a hot knife trough butter. So targeting the probably lowest protected area should make sense. Alternative to the throat cut could be grabbing the guy and stab him multiple times in the back. Well im gonna give you a example how its done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5zKzA5Edwk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs1rvkJxlj4

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The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1218	Posted - 2013.04.11 17:09:00 - [1] - Quote Well nova knifes are pretty crap how they are at the moment and i would like to contribute some ideas to make them better. 1-get rid of the charge up 2- make it possible to stab people while sprinting 3-to balance the no charge time it should use up stamina 4-when approaching a enemy from behind you should be aible to grab him and perform a stealth kill by slitting his throat. Like you get behind some 1 and press R1/melee while having the nova knifes equipped to grab the guy and perform a insta kill. This will only work if the enemy is facing his back to you. During that animation you are totally exposed and can be shot quite easy. This function will ignore the kind of dropsuit, HP and other stuff. i know people will disagree with me on the throat slitting part but they are supposed to cut trough dropsuits like a hot knife trough butter. So targeting the probably lowest protected area should make sense. Alternative to the throat cut could be grabbing the guy and stab him multiple times in the back. Well im gonna give you a example how its done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5zKzA5Edwk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs1rvkJxlj4
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 204	Posted - 2013.04.11 17:13:00 - [2] - Quote Want to run around and stab ppl - Metal Gear Rising is out Wants OHK from behing on a heavy which may have well over 1k hp Yea no
SmileB4Death Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 48	Posted - 2013.04.11 17:23:00 - [3] - Quote You can sprint with a charge dude. I've got quite a few kills that way p*ing about Melee(R3) Then hold R1 to charge. Now you can sprrint, jump etc. You can charge up charge snipers, FG and so on But you can't really tell the difference in sprinting with the FG charged Takahiro Kashuken wrote:** Want to run around and stab ppl - Metal Gear Rising is out Wants OHK from behing on a heavy which may have well over 1k hp Yea no It could work.. But people would guaranteed abuse it. Jump over someone's head (in a scout suit) and insta-kill the dude. First thing I thought of tbh. They could make it so you gotta be standing still or something.. I don't know.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1218	Posted - 2013.04.11 17:35:00 - [4] - Quote i know about that mechanic but thats a work around and not a intended game mechanic. The changes would not make them OP cause the range would be still very limited and only be usefull at close quarters. And in my opinion the nova knife should be more lethal up close then a shotgun if you manage to get there.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 25	Posted - 2013.04.11 17:36:00 - [5] - Quote SmileB4Death wrote: Edit: I wasn't the one to discover this FYI. Someone posted it on the forums a while back. That would be Maken and Nova Knife. Personally I'd like to see a bit of range on them. I mean like being able to stab more than a centimetre in front of you. I suspect Maken will drop into this thread sooner or later, though, and he actually knows what he's talking about.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2448	Posted - 2013.04.11 17:44:00 - [6] - Quote The devs have said they plan to make sprinting charge a proper mechanic instead of forcing players into a workaround to do it. So that's a good first step to making knives better. Making melee buffs also apply to knives (at the moment they only benefit from Sidearm skills/modules) would be another step in the right direction for me. Giving a melee buff when you have knives equipped would also help. Obviously sprinting charge as standard instead of a workaround is pretty clear. But if you make Sidearm AND Melee skills apply to Knives, you'll be dealing more damage per swing, and if the "normal" melee attack deals a little more damage, that means a good player will be able to quickly let off a charged slash followed by an uncharged strike to finish an enemy off. At the moment, Proto Knives already allow this against most suits, but really, they SHOULD be able to hit harder than Shotguns, since they have even less range and a charge requirement on top of that.
SmileB4Death Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 51	Posted - 2013.04.11 18:09:00 - [7] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: SmileB4Death wrote: Edit: I wasn't the one to discover this FYI. Someone posted it on the forums a while back. That would be Maken and Nova Knife. There you go, cheers man Garrett Blacknova wrote: The devs have said they plan to make sprinting charge a proper mechanic instead of forcing players into a workaround to do it. Didn't hear about that, may I ask for a source dude?
Keeriam Miray IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 4	Posted - 2013.04.11 18:11:00 - [8] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Want to run around and stab ppl - Metal Gear Rising is out Wants OHK from behing on a heavy which may have well over 1k hp Yea no Actualy you already can in Dust OHK heavy with over 1k hp :) but not with nova knifes...
SmileB4Death Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 51	Posted - 2013.04.11 18:13:00 - [9] - Quote Keeriam Miray wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Want to run around and stab ppl - Metal Gear Rising is out Wants OHK from behing on a heavy which may have well over 1k hp Yea no Actualy you already can in Dust OHK heavy with over 1k hp :) but not with nova knifes... Keeriam you a**hole FG direct hit OHK anyone.. Can't think of another atm though.
WyrmHero1945 IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 109	Posted - 2013.04.11 18:14:00 - [10] - Quote I like the stealth assassination idea, would definitely make people invest in scan precision/profile scan.

Keeriam Miray IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 4	Posted - 2013.04.11 18:31:00 - [11] - Quote SmileB4Death wrote: Keeriam Miray wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Want to run around and stab ppl - Metal Gear Rising is out Wants OHK from behing on a heavy which may have well over 1k hp Yea no Actualy you already can in Dust OHK heavy with over 1k hp :) but not with nova knifes... Keeriam you a**hole FG direct hit OHK anyone.. Can't think of another atm though. No, it's a melee hit... alot of my victims can comfirm that... Last one was DJINN He11 Knight (not sure i'm correct with nickname) from Hellstorm, punched him twice right in face with full hp. He was in Heavy B-Series sniping behind redline... i was unable to kill him with my mighty militia sniper rifle, so changed to my kung fu suit, flyed behind him in dropship & performed humiliation. That day skill wasn't maxed out (so it takes 2 hit), now it's maxed out :) so i can OHK any, ANY dropsuit in Dust 514.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1218	Posted - 2013.04.11 18:34:00 - [12] - Quote its basically the risk vs reward thing. And scouts where designed to assasinate people so the thorat slit/ backstab would compliment the actual role. You have to think about it that scouts are fast, low scan profile but very fragile dropsuits. Adding this would make their role actually usefull. Cause of how it stands at the moment if you see a scout with nova knifes you think its a free kill.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 1958	Posted - 2013.04.11 20:07:00 - [13] - Quote SmileB4Death wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: SmileB4Death wrote: Edit: I wasn't the one to discover this FYI. Someone posted it on the forums a while back. That would be Maken and Nova Knife. There you go, cheers man Garrett Blacknova wrote: The devs have said they plan to make sprinting charge a proper mechanic instead of forcing players into a workaround to do it. Didn't hear about that, may I ask for a source dude? Most of the sources seem to stem from irc which is as close to legit as we can get outside the forums. CCP Cmdr Wang mentioned on the feedback weekly updates that nova knives will be buffed but details were a little vague.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1200	Posted - 2013.04.11 20:13:00 - [14] - Quote Is this a nova knife which I see before me, the handle towards my hand? Come, let me clutch thee. I have 2 ideas- either let it deal 100% damage to all vehicles, or keep the current charge system, but instead allow you to use melee attacks more quickly and costing less stamina- sort of allowing melee combos. http://youtu.be/eqd8UeS4Aw4?t=54s
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 1958	Posted - 2013.04.11 20:18:00 - [15] - Quote Someone mentioned earlier that in an irc discussion with a dev the nova knives have been changed in the next build to the following: Tap r1 will allow double strike. Press and hold r1 will allow a charged double strike with more damage. Keep in kind that irc details are not final and subject to change without notice before the next build. The only way we can confirm for sure is when CCP posts the patch notes.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 58	Posted - 2013.04.11 20:21:00 - [16] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: I like the stealth assassination idea, would definitely make people invest in scan precision/profile scan. I agree with this, though I disagree with the OP's idea that it should disregard dropsuit type. I think it should be more akin to the stealth kill in the new Tomb Raider (not the Axe stealth kill, the early bow stealth kill), make it so that the initial attack does enough to kill an untanked scout dropsuit and then each additional strike does X damage until the opponent is dead. IDK if they should be able to escape or avert the attack, though I'd imagine the struggling could alert bluedots nearby. I think that would be a nice compromise.
Icy TIG3R Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 78	Posted - 2013.04.11 20:30:00 - [17] - Quote Keeriam Miray wrote: SmileB4Death wrote: Keeriam Miray wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Want to run around and stab ppl - Metal Gear Rising is out Wants OHK from behing on a heavy which may have well over 1k hp Yea no Actualy you already can in Dust OHK heavy with over 1k hp :) but not with nova knifes... Keeriam you a**hole FG direct hit OHK anyone.. Can't think of another atm though. No, it's a melee hit... alot of my victims can comfirm that... Last one was DJINN He11 Knight (not sure i'm correct with nickname) from Hellstorm, punched him twice right in face with full hp. He was in Heavy B-Series sniping behind redline... i was unable to kill him with my mighty militia sniper rifle, so i changed to my kung fu suit, flyed behind him in dropship & performed humiliation. That day skill wasn't maxed out (so it takes 2 hit), now it's maxed out :) so i can OHK any, ANY dropsuit in Dust 514. it looks similar to that XD Scout B-Series (225 Hit Melee) + Hand-To-Hand skills up, plus maybe a melee booster. Nice. On topic, I highly disagree with making the Nova Knife a useless "niche" weapon. In my opinion, it needs to be boosted enough to compete with Mass Drivers, Lasers, and AR's. Not directly, but in a way so that a skilled Nova Knifer has the opportunity as well to go 20-0 etc. Maybe allow it to block bullets for stamina, or make it more like a Nova Dagger, or perhaps give it very high damage and pretty much instant hits. It should require skill to use, but it should be rewarding as well.
Keeriam Miray IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 4	Posted - 2013.04.11 21:07:00 - [18] - Quote Icy TIG3R wrote: Scout B-Series (225 Hit Melee) + Hand-To-Hand skills up, plus maybe a melee booster. Nice It should require skill to use, but it should be rewarding as well. 285 base damage *, + lvl 5 Hand to Hand, + 2x Complex Myofibril Stimulant = ~690-700 dmg per hit. And you can fit as well x2 1.5dn Myofibril Stimulant in low slots to increase dmg even more. + it's have 150% head damage. = melee instakill :)
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1220	Posted - 2013.04.11 21:18:00 - [19] - Quote sure the nova knife is a situatinal weapon but it should exceel copared to other weapons in its own situation. And i will defend the OHK stealth kill from behind simply cause it needs skill to sneak up undetected to some 1. espacially now these days where most people run in a big group on ambush. in mag it was a similar situation cause the knife did like 2-3 times more damage when you hit some 1 in the back resulting in a insta kill. And yes some 1 could take multiple hits from infront.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 1962	Posted - 2013.04.12 00:43:00 - [20] - Quote I still find it insulting that currently my fist is more dangerous than my knife even with proto knives.

XxWarlordxX97 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1420	Posted - 2013.04.12 00:47:00 - [21] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Well nova knifes are pretty crap how they are at the moment and i would like to contribute some ideas to make them better. 1-get rid of the charge up 2- make it possible to stab people while sprinting 3-to balance the no charge time it should use up stamina 4-when approaching a enemy from behind you should be aible to grab him and perform a stealth kill by slitting his throat. Like you get behind some 1 and press R1/melee while having the nova knifes equipped to grab the guy and perform a insta kill. This will only work if the enemy is facing his back to you. During that animation you are totally exposed and can be shot quite easy. This function will ignore the kind of dropsuit, HP and other stuff. i know people will disagree with me on the throat slitting part but they are supposed to cut trough dropsuits like a hot knife trough butter. So targeting the probably lowest protected area should make sense. Alternative to the throat cut could be grabbing the guy and stab him multiple times in the back. Well im gonna give you a example how its done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5zKzA5Edwk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs1rvkJxlj4 if they get rid of the charge up I may put it on my heavy
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 30	Posted - 2013.04.12 01:00:00 - [22] - Quote The best way i would say is to make them a passive weapon, You equip them and they are always active, You melee you'll hit the will a knife rather then your rifle for a damage bonus, You still can use them as a secondary/charge them
Keeriam Miray IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 4	Posted - 2013.04.12 01:38:00 - [23] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I still find it insulting that currently my fist is more dangerous than my knife even with proto knives. Nova knifes can be used by any suit, with same result, it's more like weapon of opportunity. While Scout B-Series have exclusive melee bonus, it's a weapon itself, meant to be used in cqc assassination \ instakilling. Weapon of choice... There will be more suits, more weapons, more exclusive bonuses, more specific roles.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 1963	Posted - 2013.04.12 04:40:00 - [24] - Quote Keeriam Miray wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I still find it insulting that currently my fist is more dangerous than my knife even with proto knives. Nova knifes can be used by any suit, with same result, it's more like weapon of opportunity. While Scout B-Series have exclusive melee bonus, it's a weapon itself, meant to be used in cqc assassination \ instakilling. Weapon of choice... There will be more suits, more weapons, more exclusive bonuses, more specific roles. That's not the point. The point is that a simple fist is somehow able to deal more damage at all than a plasma lined blade that's supposed to cut though heavy armor. How would you feel if the butt end of your AR is somehow more powerful than the bullets you fire?
XiBangBang Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2013.04.12 08:04:00 - [25] - Quote Galthur wrote: The best way i would say is to make them a passive weapon, You equip them and they are always active, You melee you'll hit the will a knife rather then your rifle for a damage bonus, You still can use them as a secondary/charge them +1
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1111	Posted - 2013.04.12 09:50:00 - [26] - Quote Been trying out nova knives last few days on a Assault vk.0 . Result https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc -0.2 KDR 10:17 on manus peek skirmish lolz go me Wont lie tho if you kill a good player its happy happy fun times.
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 106	Posted - 2013.04.12 10:47:00 - [27] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: its basically the risk vs reward thing. And scouts where designed to assasinate people Then they would be called "Assassins" or at best "Spies". Why does no one know what the word "scout" refers too?
Keeriam Miray IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 4	Posted - 2013.04.12 11:56:00 - [28] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Keeriam Miray wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I still find it insulting that currently my fist is more dangerous than my knife even with proto knives. Nova knifes can be used by any suit, with same result, it's more like weapon of opportunity. While Scout B-Series have exclusive melee bonus, it's a weapon itself, meant to be used in cqc assassination \ instakilling. Weapon of choice... There will be more suits, more weapons, more exclusive bonuses, more specific roles. That's not the point. The point is that a simple fist is somehow able to deal more damage at all than a plasma lined blade that's supposed to cut though heavy armor. How would you feel if the butt end of your AR is somehow more powerful than the bullets you fire? Now that's a question for CCP, will they improve mechanic, animation, models, effects of melee & knife dmg \ killing. If we will have special suits for melee & knife bonuses, they should do it in special way. And yes, it looks weird, that plasma lined blade less effective than melee punch in hands of Scout B-Series suit, in theory they should have additional dmg bonus from muscle overpowered suit. But it's normal with such power to brake neck \ head with bare hands.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 142	Posted - 2013.04.12 16:37:00 - [29] - Quote Well at the end the day its a Knife....and you are bringing it to a gunfight .... I don't want this weapon to turn into the Cod, BF3 variant where whenever you streak across someone and manage to press X faster, the slower one dies instantly. Quote: Then they would be called "Assassins" or at best "Spies". Why does no one know what the word "scout" refers too? Everyone seems to think Scout means, Recon Asassin Assault Ghost Commando Rambo... Yeah i know /facepalm
Bones McGavins Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 58	Posted - 2013.04.12 16:42:00 - [30] - Quote I wouldnt mind a OHK from behind with this. I mean lets face it, i dont care what suit your wearing, if a shotty got behind you close enough to where a nova knife could strike, youd be dead. It doesnt take long to fire a second or third shot while the heavy tries to turn around.



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