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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
C Saunders
Tech Guard
192
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
This question troubles me greatly.
Which make me think this. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
825
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because the only thing more Op than AV and tanks is the incompetence of your teams blueberries . |
C Saunders
Tech Guard
192
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Because the only thing more Op than AV and tanks is the incompetence of your teams blueberries .
That's not technically true, try going up against 3 fully specced enemy tanks only using AV weapons.
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
825
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
C Saunders wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Because the only thing more Op than AV and tanks is the incompetence of your teams blueberries . Try going up against 3 fully specced enemy tanks only using AV weapons. I guarantee you won't win the game.
You probably won't, but man will those guys wallets hurt. |
C Saunders
Tech Guard
192
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Its unlikely you'll be able to destroy one of them, 3 tanks can basically cover every map. Meaning you'll be dead before you get a tank down to half health.
And that's without the added enemy infantry. |
Kitten Commander
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
158
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tanks are OP and they should be. They are f'ing TANKS
What is missing is a non-infantry counter to them. I have hopes that the assault DS will be able to do something against a tank but Im not holding my breath. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
825
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
I was in a match where the enemy team brought in 4 tanks and lost 3 of them, so it's not impossible. That said, we did have support from a tank of our own. |
Alina Heart
DIOS EX.
74
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
There's nothing wrong with AV, Tanks however is a different story. By the way didn't they stealth Nerf swarms recently?
Regardless the only changes that should be made to AV is the damage output on swarms from Advanced to Prototype launchers. I don't need to lock on to 2 targets at once! There hardly ever is a 2nd target, at least create a Variant that loses the Multi-Lock-On in exchange for increased Damage or faster missles, more missles even. You know, something actually useful! |
C Saunders
Tech Guard
192
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:I was in a match where the enemy team brought in 4 tanks and lost 3 of them, so it's not impossible. That said, we did have support from a tank of our own.
How do you know they weren't militia? Also I mean no vehicle support just AV support. |
DJINN Marauder
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
442
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alina Heart wrote:There's nothing wrong with AV, didn't they stealth Nerf swarms recently? Regardless the only changes that should be made to AV is the damage output on swarms from Advanced to Prototype launchers. I don't need to lock on to 2 targets at once! There hardly ever is a 2nd target, at least create a Variant that loses the Multi-Lock-On in exchange for increased Damage or faster missles, more missles even. You know, something actually useful!
Dumb fire! |
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
109
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
C Saunders wrote:Its unlikely you'll be able to destroy one of them, 3 tanks can basically cover every map. Meaning you'll be dead before you get a tank down to half health.
well that depands on the blueberries you have. I have killed different 3 surya in one match but the blues knew they needed more then just av, they need to cover the av people till they popped the tanks then all went normal pubstomping with the tanks gone and the drivers wallets screaming in pain, but alteas this is not the norm, the norm is a bunch of blues chasing their own tail trying to figure out which button shoots. |
Cpt Murd0ck
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
129
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
C Saunders wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Because the only thing more Op than AV and tanks is the incompetence of your teams blueberries . Try going up against 3 fully specced enemy tanks only using AV weapons. I guarantee you won't win the game.
3 tanks v 3 AV with Adv gear. Swarms, AV or flux and proximity explosives you could win with the rights tactics and the right place on the map. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
825
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
C Saunders wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:I was in a match where the enemy team brought in 4 tanks and lost 3 of them, so it's not impossible. That said, we did have support from a tank of our own. How do you know they weren't militia? Also I mean no vehicle support just AV support.
2 of them were Gunlogis, 1 was a Maurader, and 1 was a Sica, but I forget what tier that is, the Sica is militia right?
Maybe instead of asking what those tankers did to get so many kills, you should be asking what you're team didn't do to stop them?
And I severly doubt every top tanker on the leaderboards needs 3 tanks to stomp. I've been in matches with Example Core and Zitro, there's usually only 1 tank on the field, 2 is rare but it happens. We didn't get stomped by those tanks because they were OP, which they very well might have been, we lost because there was only 1 or 2 guys shooting at the tanks with militia swarms. |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
553
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'm pretty cool with the AV vs. HAV balance these days. I can kill just about anything with advanced Swarms and damage mods provided I can corner it, but they're still undeniably powerful.
Tankers are always going to have higher KDRs than infantry. They would run out of ISK long before they could go negative KDR.
Also, most HAV pilots are risk averse (or cowardly, if you want to use less charitable language) due to their high overhead, and will gladly abandon the possibility of victory in a pub match to protect their investment. |
Bones McCrackin
TacoCat Industries
5
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
What is needed is a way to "tackle' tanks. AV is fine and dandy but the tanks usually just run away at the slightest hint of danger. The ability to shut down their engines for a time, or something similar (disable active/passive modules etc to allow for better damage and reduced rep).
AV doesnt need more punch, but the ability for a tank to just run and undo any failed AV attempt in a matter of seconds needs to be re-worked. |
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GM Hercules
Game Masters
C C P Alliance
416
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Moved from general discussion |
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Kitten Commander
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
158
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Posted - 2013.04.10 21:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bones McCrackin wrote:What is needed is a way to "tackle' tanks. AV is fine and dandy but the tanks usually just run away at the slightest hint of danger. The ability to shut down their engines for a time, or something similar (disable active/passive modules etc to allow for better damage and reduced rep).
AV doesnt need more punch, but the ability for a tank to just run and undo any failed AV attempt in a matter of seconds needs to be re-worked.
That wont matter much when the matches start to matter. Tankers who run for the redline will be of no use in this case. Those guys can stay in PUB matches for all I care. |
Yukari Akiyama
Oarai Girl's Academy
0
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Posted - 2013.04.11 09:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tanks of any description only pose any real threat when teammates are either too reluctant or too disorganised to make a concerted effort to deal with them. Unfortunately that's the case with about 90% of public games.
I don't understand why people don't make destroying them top priority any time someone fields one. Just the prospect of making an enemy lose a significant amount of ISK is enough to motivate me. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
186
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Posted - 2013.04.11 11:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mostly its how HAVs are used. They aren't overpowered they are just a new role. HAV should be RBV. Ranged Bombardment Vehicle. Tanks are sitting far back out of AV grenade range and with good building coverage and hammering enemy posistions and getting lots of kills. I would think a HAV would get up into it, but no they are really effective artillery pieces. |
Bones McGavins
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
52
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Posted - 2013.04.11 14:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Right but "artillery" pieces arent fun in any video game.
Unit that sits out of range of battle, killing people without them having any chance to kill it back is like the most boring, terrible concept for a video game ever. It works in real life, but its not "fun"
I have no issue with tanks "retreating" to rep armor and get out of danger, thats just smart. But the existence of the red line causes this to be a huge issue. Tanks can run away, outside the bounds of enemy pursuit, or at the very least, using the redline to act as a way to cut off any flanks, so you cant really attack them.
The redline needs to be rethought, as it doesn't play well with tanks. Snipers are also sort of an issue, but you can just countersnipe them, you cant really do anything to a redline tank, they are effectively immortal.
Nothing needs to change about tanks themselves, but the redline concept needs to be reworked for them (perhaps a limited redline for tanks compared to infantry?) and there needs to be a way to "tackle' them, to allow a coordinated squad to be able to bring them down without them just running at the first sign of danger. |
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Thor Odinson42
Red Star.
EoN.
73
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Posted - 2013.04.11 16:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kitten Commander wrote:Tanks are OP and they should be. They are f'ing TANKS
What is missing is a non-infantry counter to them. I have hopes that the assault DS will be able to do something against a tank but Im not holding my breath.
The problem with tanks is that there isn't a good way to discourage them at this point. In 2013 combat you wouldn't roll tanks within 50 meters of the battlefield against a well armed/trained army. Hell you can't do it now fighting against insurgents. You've got to send in route clearing teams to clear IEDs.
I think ISK payouts should go up to make tanks more affordable. Along with that there should be stronger weapons for punishing over eager tank drivers from getting too close to the action. I'd be happy if swarm launchers acted more like a javelin missile by immediately gaining altitude and coming down from above on the turret. Tankers in the real world have to use enfilade/defilade to engage the enemy without exposing themselves to anti-tank and opposing tanks.
They shouldn't be able to drive around without a worry in the world. When a good one is called in, that's how it appears. They can just do whatever they please.
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KatanaPT
Tech Guard
32
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Posted - 2013.04.11 16:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tanks arent OP, the ability to properly balance a pub map is UP. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1200
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Posted - 2013.04.11 20:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
It's not the weapon- it's who uses it. AVers are pretty rare, while HAVs are common.
As I've said in other games that have rock-paper-scissors combat, what's OP or UP is decided by how many players hold that role.
s we all should know, the current system (as far as infantry-based AV) is " Avi>Aiv>Aii>Avi
Since the vast majority of players are Aii (Anti-infantry-infantry), then anti vehicle infantry will seem underpowered, while anti infantry vehicles will seem overpowered.
The real trick to balancing is to keep up with the population of each role, by temporarily nerfing the most popular, and buffing the least popular. |
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