DUST Search - I feel threatened by clone goo.

Kain Spero wrote:

If you see no issue barring small groups of Dusters from playing the game how they want then you really don't understand FPS players and console communities. FPSers are often small, tight-knit groups of friends. Dust may span the gamut of organization sizes but if you snub the 16 man "clans" and groups of friends that live on the same street you are going to have issues in the long run.

Dust doesn't need to exactly mirror Eve in every way and I think Null-sec is a perfect example of what not to make Dust like. It needs to be it's own thing that works in a mutually beneficial way with Eve Online.

Why should someone's game style be limited by whether or not they choose to join some ridiculously large organization? I say let the game allow for all types and sizes of groups to exist and have a place at every level of game play.

Sounds like a more interesting game yes? Why go out of your way to restrict what small groups of players can and can't do? If you want to kill an FPS game just make it to where it is difficult or nigh impossible for small groups of players to get involved at every level of gameplay.

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ALM1GHTY STATIUS Imperfects Negative-Feedback 294	Posted - 2013.04.09 06:26:00 - [1] - Quote It's so expensive. We're talking 80m for 150 lives? even belonging to one of the highest, if not the highest, K/D corp I feel this is going to be hard to accumulate this much wealth.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 844	Posted - 2013.04.09 06:27:00 - [2] - Quote ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: It's so expensive. We're talking 80m for 150 lives? even belonging to one of the highest, if not the highest, K/D corp I feel this is going to be hard to accumulate this much wealth. Meanwhile, deep under ground, the former PRO members assemble. Yes I'm still making fun of them.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 568	Posted - 2013.04.09 06:33:00 - [3] - Quote Meanwhile in a station far above a 100M SP capsuleer just paid 30m for his one clone.
Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 34	Posted - 2013.04.09 09:25:00 - [4] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Meanwhile in a station far above a 100M SP capsuleer just paid 30m for his one clone. Different SP, different ISK. It takes longer to get anything in DUST.
Vyzion Eyri The Legion Academy ROFL BROS 418	Posted - 2013.04.09 10:02:00 - [5] - Quote Orenji Jiji wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Meanwhile in a station far above a 100M SP capsuleer just paid 30m for his one clone. Different ISK. It takes longer to get it in DUST. If it were that different there'd be an exchange rate in transfers when that's possible. And I doubt that will be the case. I mean, think about it, guys. This is the price, the literal price, of immortality. This ain't no moral Philosophers Stone quandary, this is the real deal. "Instant transfer of consciousness, even at the moment of death" (which, by the way, is obsolete). That's what we are fighting for, see? Immortality. And if that does not cost a pretty penny, I don't know what will.
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 45	Posted - 2013.04.09 10:15:00 - [6] - Quote clone goo?
Vyzion Eyri The Legion Academy ROFL BROS 418	Posted - 2013.04.09 10:17:00 - [7] - Quote BlG MAMA wrote: clone goo? Biomass. Sigh. It takes less letters to spell it too. I don't know why people went for clone goo.
BlG MAMA PLAYSTATION4 45	Posted - 2013.04.09 10:22:00 - [8] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: clone goo? Biomass. Sigh. It takes less letters to spell it too. I don't know why people went for clone goo. oh lol , its just another nerd word made by some nerds
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 569	Posted - 2013.04.09 10:26:00 - [9] - Quote BlG MAMA wrote: oh lol , its just another nerd word made by some nerds Seems he mixed up biomass and capsule goo.
Yeva Kalsani Reckoners 26	Posted - 2013.04.09 14:15:00 - [10] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: clone goo? Biomass. Sigh. It takes less letters to spell it too. I don't know why people went for clone goo. Thanks, we'll just go with "goo" then.

Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 28	Posted - 2013.04.09 14:18:00 - [11] - Quote Orenji Jiji wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Meanwhile in a station far above a 100M SP capsuleer just paid 30m for his one clone. Different ISK. It takes longer to get it in DUST. If I couldn't just on my eve pilot and buy jump about anything currently available on the Dust market i'd probably agree with you.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 667	Posted - 2013.04.09 14:38:00 - [12] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: BlG MAMA wrote: oh lol , its just another nerd word made by some nerds Seems he mixed up biomass and capsule goo. Which are, coincidentally, two very different things: - Biomass is the stuff that clones are made of. The best biomass is recycled cadavers. Read the tech articles. - Capsule ("pod") goo is the hydrostatic cushioning and life support material that biomass clones float in. So, clone goo would be the stuff surrounding the clones in their transport pods, not the stuff that they are made of.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 667	Posted - 2013.04.09 14:38:00 - [13] - Quote Yani Nabari wrote: Orenji Jiji wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Meanwhile in a station far above a 100M SP capsuleer just paid 30m for his one clone. Different ISK. It takes longer to get it in DUST. If I couldn't just on my eve pilot and buy jump about anything currently available on the Dust market i'd probably agree with you. Wait. You can buy Infantry Gear in EVE now? I tried the other day and it wouldn't let me.
Yani Nabari One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 28	Posted - 2013.04.09 14:42:00 - [14] - Quote Oh right... I should actually try and purchase it. I was broke after buying my new ship when I found it all and my first though (it's soooooooo cheap!) But yeah, I'm a poor newbie pilot who has less ISK than a decent Dust Merc.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1233	Posted - 2013.04.09 14:52:00 - [15] - Quote Yep 533,333.33 ISK is a pretty penny to pay Genolution when manufacturing them yourself only requires you to occupy land. Plus, if you have left over clones after a successful attack, but the defenders happen to have clones left over as well, you are forced to sell them back to Genolution for only 100k ISK a pop. "You want to attack again? Fine. What's that? Well, I don't care if you had 149 clones left over after the last battle. You should feel lucky that we are paying you 14.9 Million ISK for them. Now, please give us another 80 million ISK please." Quite a racket these guys have going.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2396	Posted - 2013.04.09 14:55:00 - [16] - Quote Hmmmm....do you have to pay for a clone if you get knocked down but are revived?
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1233	Posted - 2013.04.09 15:00:00 - [17] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Hmmmm....do you have to pay for a clone if you get knocked down but are revived? That's a really good question. I'd imagine that since the clone count doesn't drop and you don't loose gear that your clone is saved by a nanite injection. The money saving value of logis can't be denied when every needle can get you an extra 20k if you win or 100k if you loose.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 667	Posted - 2013.04.09 15:00:00 - [18] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Hmmmm....do you have to pay for a clone if you get knocked down but are revived? If you are revived by a nano injector, it counts as a "death" but not a clone loss.
Victor Euel Eos Corporation 28	Posted - 2013.04.09 16:16:00 - [19] - Quote Orenji Jiji wrote: Different ISK. It takes longer to get it in DUST. Get this out of your head right now. It will save you a load of trouble in the long run. Vaerana Myshtana wrote: Which are, coincidentally, two very different things: - Biomass is the stuff that clones are made of. The best biomass is recycled cadavers. Read the tech articles. - Capsule ("pod") goo is the hydrostatic cushioning and life support material that biomass clones float in. So, clone goo would be the stuff surrounding the clones in their transport pods, not the stuff that they are made of. Yes, but unused clones get suspended in a third type of goo. Which helps the biomass grow. That's at least been the case in the chronicles.
spektair nujax Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 35	Posted - 2013.04.09 17:31:00 - [20] - Quote It seems to me that PC is not meant to be played by the smaller more elite corps. The same way nullsec isn't meant to be conquered by 10 man corps. PC is the realm of mega corps and coalitions. Just like nullsec in EVE. Just that in Dust rather than needing more people to out blob your opponent you need more people to help generate the isk needed to actually own the space you want to take. I see no issues with this. If what you want is to be that small elite mercenary group then by all means, do that, but realize its is going to limit you to a different game style than what a larger and well backed alliance or coalition is going to do.

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1233	Posted - 2013.04.09 20:35:00 - [21] - Quote If you see no issue barring small groups of Dusters from playing the game how they want then you really don't understand FPS players and console communities. FPSers are often small, tight-knit groups of friends. Dust may span the gamut of organization sizes but if you snub the 16 man "clans" and groups of friends that live on the same street you are going to have issues in the long run. Dust doesn't need to exactly mirror Eve in every way and I think Null-sec is a perfect example of what not to make Dust like. It needs to be it's own thing that works in a mutually beneficial way with Eve Online. Why should someone's game style be limited by whether or not they choose to join some ridiculously large organization? I say let the game allow for all types and sizes of groups to exist and have a place at every level of game play. Sounds like a more interesting game yes? Why go out of your way to restrict what small groups of players can and can't do? If you want to kill an FPS game just make it to where it is difficult or nigh impossible for small groups of players to get involved at every level of gameplay.
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N 38	Posted - 2013.04.09 20:35:00 - [22] - Quote How many members do you think will be needed to fund a presence in PC?
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1233	Posted - 2013.04.09 21:01:00 - [23] - Quote A'Real Fury wrote: How many members do you think will be needed to fund a presence in PC? It all comes down to how much territory people hold. More territory = more bodies to defend or a longer daily time commitment to stagger timers. Then you have the ISK grind. People trying to break in once territories are held are going to be put at a disadvantage due to how Genolution clone packs are structured. I'm sorry but fighting in an FPS = Good. Players sitting on their rears making money passively = bad. Honestly thought the Warriors were going to be the only farmers in Dust, but it seems like the mega organizations are going to be more interested in growing clones than shooting people in the face.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 293	Posted - 2013.04.09 21:55:00 - [24] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: It all comes down to how much territory people hold. More territory = more bodies to defend or a longer daily time commitment to stagger timers. Then you have the ISK grind. People trying to break in once territories are held are going to be put at a disadvantage due to how Genolution clone packs are structured. I'm sorry but fighting in an FPS = Good. Players sitting on their rears making money passively = bad. Honestly thought the Warriors were going to be the only farmers in Dust, but it seems like the mega organizations are going to be more interested in growing clones than shooting people in the face. It seems that in current model strong victories really give you profit. That means that the question really is: Can you manage a strong win consistently out of most matches? It seems that getting a pyrrhic victory with only few clones left is very costly and not profitable - which is perfectly okay. It's quite possible that professional corps, even small ones having at least critical mass of about 30, can always hold their sole district and make profit while repelling scrub attackers. Fighting against other genuine elite corps is another matter. But hey, guess it's life in new eden!
Shadowswipe WarRavens 57	Posted - 2013.04.09 22:33:00 - [25] - Quote I can fund a starter pack myself right now. So really its pretty cheap. In a 16 man corp that plays the same time every night, they could easily hold one district and split the initial cost between them. That is only 5 mil each. I can make that in a day if I really wanted to. So a corp from the ground up could have a district assault clone pack ready to go in less than a day if it picked up more than 16 members. Then from there, we can live off the clone isk from auto selling if we are good enough to hold the district against attackers. That starting fun of 80 mil would be recouped in 10 to 12 days. Not even considering the isk you make from slapping the attackers around for being dump enough to assault you.
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2013.04.10 01:15:00 - [26] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: If you see no issue barring small groups of Dusters from playing the game how they want then you really don't understand FPS players and console communities. FPSers are often small, tight-knit groups of friends. Dust may span the gamut of organization sizes but if you snub the 16 man "clans" and groups of friends that live on the same street you are going to have issues in the long run. Dust doesn't need to exactly mirror Eve in every way and I think Null-sec is a perfect example of what not to make Dust like. It needs to be it's own thing that works in a mutually beneficial way with Eve Online. Why should someone's game style be limited by whether or not they choose to join some ridiculously large organization? I say let the game allow for all types and sizes of groups to exist and have a place at every level of game play. Sounds like a more interesting game yes? Why go out of your way to restrict what small groups of players can and can't do? If you want to kill an FPS game just make it to where it is difficult or nigh impossible for small groups of players to get involved at every level of gameplay. the goal is to allow you to participate in PC, but you might have to ally with other corps, or you can act as a merc for other corps, or you can spend your time in PC. Really with the timers if you have a few hours a day to play you can take two or three districts and roll your timers, but that means you have to have every one available at all times or allies to fight for you. There are many things the smaller corps will be able to do to participate in this world but frankly if you don't want to work with any one else in any long term way PC is probably not for you. Hopefully the competition matches like corp matches in this build will come back quickly in an other form.
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 23	Posted - 2013.04.10 02:29:00 - [27] - Quote on that note you could have a group of smaller corps go in on one system get every thing in it and produce your own clones for attacking, agree not to attack those district owners in that system, even have a couple of districts that are set up for nothing but fighting. This spreads out the risk and later investments, gives you a means to participate in corp battles until grudge matches are returned, and even a potential pool of allies if your corp cannot bring a full show of force to a fight. Right now 80m isk seems like a lot, its not and will be less so as this game progresses and higher end fights pay out better. Again I agree that the loss of grudge matches is unfortunate and needs to be returned, hopefully corp match work arounds and FW will help to alleviate that until they are returned.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 669	Posted - 2013.04.10 14:26:00 - [28] - Quote blue gt wrote: on that note you could have a group of smaller corps go in on one system get every thing in it and produce your own clones for attacking, agree not to attack those district owners in that system, even have a couple of districts that are set up for nothing but fighting. This spreads out the risk and later investments, gives you a means to participate in corp battles until grudge matches are returned, and even a potential pool of allies if your corp cannot bring a full show of force to a fight. Right now 80m isk seems like a lot, its not and will be less so as this game progresses and higher end fights pay out better. Again I agree that the loss of grudge matches is unfortunate and needs to be returned, hopefully corp match work arounds and FW will help to alleviate that until they are returned. This is essentially the type of zerging and NAPing behavior we were worried about from the kaiju corps that encouraged the devs to raise the price and make clone packs unlimited. With the little guys it's cute (and encouraged) because they don't pose a threat to the overall game of PC. However, it might still be worth it for those corps to merge and/or join an alliance rather than just being a coalition. However... Dun-dun-DUN! There are only a few places in Molden Heath where you could do this. Most of the planets are in the two big megapockets that will likely be the favored stomping grounds of the kaijus.
Vaerana Myshtana Bojo's School of the Trades 669	Posted - 2013.04.10 14:33:00 - [29] - Quote A'Real Fury wrote: How many members do you think will be needed to fund a presence in PC? To my mind, if you cannot regularly field 24 strongly-skilled people in the same timezone, you have no chance unless you are super, super, insanely good- like devhax good. If the PFBHz don't quake at seeing the six members of your corp in a pubmatch, then your corp with six guys has no chance because you need 16 players to defend with unless they are totally godlike. So why did I say 24 when you need 16 for a battle? Redundancy. You need to be able to reliably get 16 people on to fight. Even in an awesome corp, there is a high likelihood that 25% of your members will be unavailable for one reason or another. 24 - 25% = 16 It is also worth noting that 80M / 16 players is 5M each. That same 80M / 24 players is 3.3M apiece.


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