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Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition
RISE of LEGION
139
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Posted - 2013.04.07 18:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm really concerned about the lack of command structure in Dust. Here's a game that asks you adapt to very high levels of gameplay but has no organizing principle whatsoever. While we have a team chat tool, no one uses it and even then it is not an efficient setup.
I'm baffled that the game demands that you work with your team to be successful, yet gives you horrible tools to do so. Are we supposed to communicate by osmosis? We've got huge maps, multiple objectives, vehicles and all these other complex elements but comms the level of carrier pigeons. ITS UNACCEPTABLE. What NPC corp would hire an army that doesn't even talk to each other? Imagine when merc contracts bring together guys from a bunch of different corps? The amount of clusterf@ck will be too d@mn high. You never know how many redline snipers would help out on the ground if, you know....the platoon leader asked them to. But maybe i'm just crazy.
Players respond to an actual plan of action. Or...we could just HOPE we get bluedots with half a clue. HOPE they figure out where to go and HOPE they want to win instead of sniping under the MCC. Since thats working out so well already and everything
This game will be a sandbox and will support several kinds of players but if the core game isn't at a certain level you make it harder for newer players to adapt to higher level gameplay. There are just some things that need to be static. This is why not adding FF, MCC Commanders and Command Structure at the ground floor is a bad idea. Players who play Lower-tier/Skirmish/Ambush will be blown away by the consequences on higher levels..."How do I call in turrets for my team? How do I talk to alpha squad leader? You mean my orbital strikes can kill teammates? My shots hurt allies? I cant throw grenades where my team is?" and it shouldn't be this way. Don't give them Dust Lite...because then organized corps have to completely retrain them in the "real game".
Even if by some act of God bluedots got into Team Chat, can you imagine 32+ mercs talking in there trying to coordinate anything? What a joke. This aspect could use some major compartmentalization...a system where the mcc commander/platoon leader/ squad leaders can talk on/hear a command chat channel and relay orders to their members just seems better, but what do I know?
Inevitably someone is going to tell me to get on TS...NEGATIVE. No Dev should ever expect players to find an alternative to the poor structure in THEIR game. Its basic that things like this are included and effective. Where are the...
A) Platoon Leaders - Assign someone coordinate the battle.
B) Squad Leaders - Hopefully the people selected here and above have mics.
C) Platoon Broadcast - Give the PL the ability to address their team.
D) MCC Commander - We heard this person would be kind of important. Where the devil are they?
The coordination aspect of the game is hurting right now, and I havent heard anything about how it will improve. Part of the game's success will depend on it. Mark my words.
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Logi Bro
Eyniletti Rangers
Minmatar Republic
1087
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Posted - 2013.04.07 18:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
The "command" suit, which I believe has been renamed to Crusader, will likely have a roll in directing communications, etc. but unfortunately this will likely not be introduced ANYTIME SOONGäó. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
3363
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Posted - 2013.04.07 18:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Squad Sargent -> Field Lieutenant -> Planetary Captain -> System Commander -> Region General -> Central Command.
The commander suit has been re-functioned to be the MCC pilot btw, thus crusaders having to be invented to be squad leaders. |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2013.04.07 18:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:The "command" suit, which I believe has been renamed to Crusader, will likely have a roll in directing communications, etc. but unfortunately this will likely not be introduced ANYTIME SOONGäó.
The dreaded soon....all is lost.
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theschizogenious
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
175
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Posted - 2013.04.07 18:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
im not holding my breath for this i mean its not like a structured system of command is important to a large TACTICAL shooter or anything i mean this game obviously wouldn't be any fun if the rts aspects of being an mcc commander that were promised didn't show up for us taking planets, cause i mean who in their right mind likes having to have a deeper level to the game then run in there shoot the reds and hack everything then rinse and repeat. |
Tolen Rosas
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
73
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Posted - 2013.04.07 18:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
great point. its a bad idea if this game plays completely diff on lower and higher levels. its confusing. some stuff needs 2 be uniform
even u veterans who got in first have never been mcc cmdr? |
Kushmir Nadian
Valor Coalition
RISE of LEGION
140
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Posted - 2013.04.07 19:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tolen Rosas wrote:great point. its a bad idea if this game plays completely diff on lower and higher levels. its confusing. some stuff needs 2 be uniform
even u veterans who got in first have never been mcc cmdr?
Nope. No one has. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
423
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Posted - 2013.04.07 19:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
So.... You're hoping for blueberries in pub matches to coordinate with other randoms effectively?
Protip: Join an organised corp. CCP generally leaves organisation open-ended and entirely up to the players. Want to play solo? Fine, you're limiting yourself, but fine. Want to make a squad and be platoon leader? Also fine, here's the squad system.
If you can organise a squad, or three, within your own corp, then you have a much better chance of organising yourself well, as opposed to jumping into a pub match solo. |
Protoman Is God
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2013.04.07 20:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
You don't need a command structure to win pub matches. A 4 man squad should suffice. |
Reiki Jubo
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
73
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Posted - 2013.04.07 21:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Protoman Is God wrote:You don't need a command structure to win pub matches. A 4 man squad should suffice.
ur missing the point. some of u are good enough to win matches alone  but if u think for a second the lack of coordination hurts the overall game. think for a moment. do u want high level comp or to win because the other team is horrible? the point is there are no tools to coordinate anything. watering down the core game a very bad idea.
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mollerz
s1ck3r Corp
125
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Posted - 2013.04.07 21:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote: We've got huge maps, multiple objectives, vehicles and all these other complex elements but comms the level of carrier pigeons. ITS UNACCEPTABLE.
Well there's your problem right there.
You should have used a raven. |
Prius Vecht
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2013.04.07 21:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tolen Rosas wrote:great point. its a bad idea if this game plays completely diff on lower and higher levels. its confusing. some stuff needs 2 be uniform
even u veterans who got in first have never been mcc cmdr?
nope. no one has even seen the RTS aspect. the next time someone see its will be the first time. we really dont even know if the MCC commander is still in.
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
158
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Posted - 2013.04.08 08:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
The lack of a comm's structure, command tree and the myriad of other corp UI that's missing in this game is at the very top of my Fanfest notes. I'm going to be pushing the Dev's and CCP very hard on this point. The Dust Round tables are going to get very interesting that's for sure. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
423
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Posted - 2013.04.08 09:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Everyone in this thread *does realise* that the "end-game" content isn't actually in the game yet? All the high-end stuff won't actually come into play until PC comes in, where there won't be randoms in the matches, where it will be entirely corp vs corp, where both teams will be organised, use comms, etc.
There's no problem here, whatsoever. OP's basing his opinions on current, unfinished gameplay, i.e. incomplete information. |
Im a PIGEON
Reckoners
8
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Posted - 2013.04.08 10:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kushmir Nadian wrote:We've got huge maps, multiple objectives, vehicles and all these other complex elements but comms the level of carrier pigeons. ITS UNACCEPTABLE.
...I don't see the problem. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
202
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Posted - 2013.04.08 10:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Basically OP is asking for the command structure from MAG
With squad/platoon/OIC postions but also broadcast function |
Reiki Jubo
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
73
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Posted - 2013.04.08 11:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Im a PIGEON wrote:Kushmir Nadian wrote:We've got huge maps, multiple objectives, vehicles and all these other complex elements but comms the level of carrier pigeons. ITS UNACCEPTABLE. ...I don't see the problem.
thats fine, pick up your controller and go back to playing CoD. nothing to see here.
for the rest of the world who actually thinks its important to talk to ur team and determine a plan of action this is majorly bad. still wondering why we dont this or the ability to plan tactics on the warbage b4 the match. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
424
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote:thats fine, pick up your controller and go back to playing CoD. nothing to see here.
for the rest of the world who actually thinks its important to talk to ur team and determine a plan of action this is majorly bad. still wondering why we dont this or the ability to plan tactics on the warbage b4 the match.
One. Look at his name.
Two. Refer to my post above. |
The Dragon Ascendant
Destruction Initiative Enterprise
145
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
A completely de-centralised command structure is better anyway. Multiple isolated cells, each capable of acting autonomously without direct oversight, no pesky commanders getting in the way, everyone working towards the same goal because they already know what that goal is. Makes it impossible for enemies to predict their actions, because nobody can predict their actions. Ordered chaos. Allows for increased flexibility on the battlefield as each unit is capable of a multitude of tactics, including totally inspired unorthodox manoeuvres.
How would you defend against an enemy that is totally unpredictable and capable of any attack? |
Im a PIGEON
Reckoners
9
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote:Im a PIGEON wrote:Kushmir Nadian wrote:We've got huge maps, multiple objectives, vehicles and all these other complex elements but comms the level of carrier pigeons. ITS UNACCEPTABLE. ...I don't see the problem. thats fine, pick up your controller and go back to playing CoD. nothing to see here. for the rest of the world who actually thinks its important to talk to ur team and determine a plan of action this is majorly bad. still wondering why we dont this or the ability to plan tactics on the warbage b4 the match.
Thanks for the laughs.
PIGEON doesn't see the problem with using PIGEONS for communication. |
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