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2-Ton Twenty-One
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Posted - 2013.04.06 02:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
mollerz wrote:mikegunnz wrote:
Solution: Change the armor plates so that they keep their current HP buffs, but give them less of a movement penalty. Perhaps basic should be 2% speed penalty, enhanced 3%, and complex 4% penalty. This way, there still is a penalty, but your speed isn't completely crushed when you stack more than one armor plate.
I'm not sure there is a balance issue.. but regardless, it makes sense that adding thicker and thicker armor plating slows you down because you are adding a lot of junk with that protective trunk. I think, more towards your point, if there was a balance issue- it would make far more sense to just up the repair rate of the armor repper.
It however makes no sense that a scout can add on the same amount of plates as a heavy. And that those plates are of equal amount of protection. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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Posted - 2013.04.06 20:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:mollerz wrote:mikegunnz wrote:
Solution: Change the armor plates so that they keep their current HP buffs, but give them less of a movement penalty. Perhaps basic should be 2% speed penalty, enhanced 3%, and complex 4% penalty. This way, there still is a penalty, but your speed isn't completely crushed when you stack more than one armor plate.
I'm not sure there is a balance issue.. but regardless, it makes sense that adding thicker and thicker armor plating slows you down because you are adding a lot of junk with that protective trunk. I think, more towards your point, if there was a balance issue- it would make far more sense to just up the repair rate of the armor repper. It however makes no sense that a scout can add on the same amount of plates as a heavy. And that those plates are of equal amount of protection. Think of it this way. Right now, armor add very little to a heavy suit (relative to the high HP they already have) and thus also affects them less because their speed is already slow...so % penalty doesn't lower it that much. A scout on the other hand, can add a considerable amount of HP (relative to their base stats) but also is drastically affected because their base speed is so high, that they see a larger speed drop.
Put armor plates on a heavy and tell me the speed reduction is not massive.... The 10% penalty stack on each other and makes a huge difference. like your going to die difference. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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Posted - 2013.04.06 21:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:
Put armor plates on a heavy and tell me the speed reduction is not massive.... The 10% penalty stack on each other and makes a huge difference. like your going to die difference.
Fair enough. My thought was this: A heavy has a speed of 3.5ish (can't remember exactly what it is) If you give them a 20% speed reduction by stacking some plating, their speed goes down to 2.8. Very slow, and I agree with you... it'll get you killed that much faster. But, a 20% reduction to a scout slows them down to around low-to-mid 4s for speed. That's logi speed, and with pretty low HP. I just felt that the scout gets hurt more by the speed reduction. Perhaps you're right, but either way, both suits are hurt by the plating. My point still stands. There is little reason to armor-tank in this game.
yes I agree, armor needs a complete rework for infantry |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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Posted - 2013.04.06 22:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:Since I love terrible ideas so much, I decided to roll an armor tanking heavy this build. I've learned a couple things, and here they are in a badly formatted list with a terrible segue -
1. Armor plating is all but f'ing useless on a heavy. Just run the numbers. Regen is the way to go if you are armor tanking. a basic armor plate gives 65 static hp, you take one or two rounds and the advantage is gone leaving you with only the penalty of choosing a terrible mod. Enhanced lets you take 1/2 an extra round, and complex lets you survive a whopping 4 extra rounds from a gek at the cost of 10% movement penalty and 10k a pop. Not freaking worth it. you'll be better off with a basic rep mod than a complex plate.
2. Armor regen has potential, but needs work. Having constant regen even under fire is nice. It let's me keep up the pressure as shield tankers pull back to try to give their shields time to power up again. Unfortunately the passive skill is broken and provides no boost to regen rate. Once they fix that and add racial suit skills to boost that even more (gallente heavy? yes please.)
3. We need resistance mods. whats the point of having a large buffer if you arent able to use it to it's full potential?
Yes I specked into armor plates when i heard the respec was coming because I also love masochism and wanted to prove or disprove the whole logi armor heavy support build theory people kick around. and found it to be useless even with a proto level logi healer. it was way way to slow to be effective, and could be melted even with 2 complex plates with ease. it cant get away from grenades and if it was specked into a shield heavy those points would be easily 2x more useful. its a def handicap. I found I was better off without the plates. sad really. Its actually worse for lasers btw, because you so slow you cant get to cover in time even if your corner shooting haha, plus lasers are broken and can max dmg without having to hold the beam on target. its also bad against all other weapons because again it takes 20% (staking moment penalty btw so its actually more) time to move around that corner your shooting from when you take fire. so yeah as a heavy that is a top teir player who has tested it with top tier logi support i can tell you that it is a waste and your 2x more effective in a shield heavy under all circumstances.
Would not do it again under this build would spec into shield, way way way more effective. needs complete rebuild. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
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Posted - 2013.04.08 12:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: It however makes no sense that a scout can add on the same amount of plates as a heavy. And that those plates are of equal amount of protection.
It makes plenty of sense! 3% of a Scout's speed is greater than 3% of a heavy's speed. Therefore, scouts lose more speed than heavies, but of the same proportion. What is this bunk logic that says scout's can't tank (BTW I'm not directing this part at 2 ton)? I see people suggesting that everything be based on percent, so that a scout will get less shields/armor from extenders/plates for the same CPU/PG as everyone else. Why? So heavies can get even MORE HP? Yes they are UP but adding more HP is a buff in the wrong direction sometimes.... On Topic: I honestly think that what the OP says is very true. People find Flux nades OP because they shield tank. But one thing to consider from armor plates is the CPU/PG use versus the HP given. Basic plates give you 65 more armor, for 1 PG and 10 CPU. That's a fricken steal compared to extenders.
I dont think anyone is saying that scouts should not be able to tank, but it all has to be relative to class so lumping them all with the same modules does not work. A tanking scout is very different from a tanking heavy yet they are fighting with the same plates? Its like the difference between a tanking LAV and a tanking HAV, they dont run the same plates on those so why are they pigeonholing dropsuits with the same modules and cpu pg tables? as for a steal compared to extenders yeah the requirements for them are low but the benefits are also extremely low. I would rather a higher PG cpu cost and for them to actually benefit me.
Plus the percentage of speed loss is really relative to player tracking so its a pretty complicated thing to figure out how it scales, Im sure if you doubled a scouts speed the affect on someones hit ratio would be way dif then if you doubled a heavys speed. How we would work out how to accurately present that sort of meta data is beyond my tired brain. IMHO if a heavy slows down by 25% compared to a scout by the same percentage and you compared shots on target that heavy would get drilled in the head easily and downed super fast, a scout might "might" fair better but we would have to test it with a pro sharpshooter to see whats harder to hit for the armor gained. And what the HP/Hitbox/speed/strafe equation is?
The dust 514 equation?
The anti-life equation? |
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