DUST Search - AV Vs Vehicles/Vehicles Vs Vehicles

Caeli SineDeo wrote:

See this is where our community fails. Currently CCP is buffing things by giving more damage farther range flying faster. And this is something that will stop these types off buffs. People will actually spec into AV. People will actually spec into AV. Once AV comes a prelevent job instead of something to do on the side. CCP will able to get a better read of of where AV needs to go. AKA if AV becomes to controlling on the battle field CCP can balance it too where it needs.

Also This system puts more risk on the AV side of things if people get a payout for killing someone with AV weapon they are going to climb that later to kill that annoying AV guy hiding on a building top by himself. So yes it paints a bigger target of vehicles but it is also painting a big target on AV. Also if a proto tank vs proto AV and he kills the AV guy 10 times he will gain a big pay out even if he loses his vehicle because each kill on the AV personal will pay out big to him. It is putting better rewards out their for the risks. I really think this system will add better gameplay here. And Might end up making it so CCP better balance things here.

Currently driving a vehicle is mostly risk with little reward. You will gain little more risks but the rewards will become a lot better. And become high rewards if you do well over a match doing your job as a tank. And teammates will also get a big reward for protecting you from those pesky building camper making a team more willing to work with tank drivers causing it to be harder for AV in the end too.

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Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 354	Posted - 2013.04.04 00:03:00 - [1] - Quote First off this is nothing to do with a nerf. I am just hoping with the new build around the corner I can get CCP to think about things. Now I do think AV and vehicles will need a better balancing tier to tier with AV I would like CCP to fix one thing first. The Risk vs reward with AV vs Vehicles and Vehicles vs Vehicles. Right now people have no reason to go dedicated AV. So CCP is not seeing many people run around with true proto AV or a dedication to AV. And I think that is whats causes the imbalance with AV vs Vehicles. I want CCP to fix the reward system here. From there more people will feel dedicated AV is a career. The skill points taken from AVing can be pretty small compared to other careers. So they need to raise the WP recieved for each vehicle that is killed. Each vehicle needs to be tiered to there lvl worth of points harder to kill the better the reward Militant starts out at base and you add +25 to each lvl after Militant tank 150 Standard tank 175 Proto tank 200 Black ops tank 225 Militant LAV 60 Standard LAV 85 Proto LAV 110 Black ops LAV 135 Militant Dropship 80 Standard Dropship 105 Proto Dropship 130 Black ops dropship 155 Little more on vehicle warpoints. The last person to get the hit gets the vehicle kill hurts those that dedicate into AV usually because they can put in 80% of the damage and yet loose it to someone that gets a lucky last hit on the vehicle. So you should have a damage system that holds for 30 seconds after your last hit on the vehicle. So as long as you hit the vehicle you keep resenting that 30 seconds and adding onto your total damage. The vehicle gets away and 30 seconds go bye your total damage considered done to the vehicle is reset. But if he gets away and you have done 6500 damage and then someone kills the vehicle before your 30 seconds are up and does 4000 damage you will get rewarded the vehicle kill. Now the infantry inside the vehicle. Their deaths should get rewarded to the one who has last hit. And they will also get assist points. And of coarse everyone else that was not the killer or did not put out the main damage will gain assist points. Burning vehicles. I personally loose alot of kills to a vehicle burning up before I hit it one last time. Or they get away and blow up somewhere else. You need to fix the system so even if the vehicle burns up people get rewarded with the kills and assist if there is more then one person AVing. This system will make people a little more willing to AV if they know they are going to be able to gain skill points close to what another play can. Moving on to isk. AVing with proto AV can be expensive or going vehicle vs vehicle can drain the wallet fast. It becomes all risk with little reward. So I would like to also see a change in the reward system. Paying out 50% of the vehicles over all fit cost to the people who deal damage to a vehicle. This goes strait to the people who damage the vehicle not into the pot that is given out to the team at the end. Also I think AV weapons should pay out 70% of there overall cost to whoever kills them. Just the weapon not the whole fit. This will change both having a bigger target layed on them. AV will have to play smart and run with groups to keep them from being a valued kill. But also tanks will have to be careful from counter AV because more people will want to proto out there AV to gain that big chunk of shiny isk. I should the pay out system work. AV weapons holder the killer should get 100% if soloed or else he will get the biggest pay out but anyone with a assist will get a kickback say 20% off the assist. For vehicles. This should go on a damage percentage done. So there will be a 50% kick out from the vehicles total worth. You will start with 100% if you have 4 guys that AV a vehicle and one does 13% the other does 60% and another does 17% and the guy who gets the kill does 10% the isk worth of that 50% will be split into 13%, 60%, 17%, and 10%. You are rewarded for your efforts. This will allow those running proto and dealing the most damage not to feel jipped because someone got lucky pulling off last hit with a militant swarm. I think this should be the first major step CCP makes. It will make the Risk high but Rewards great for running both. I think it will bring back a little more excitement. And CCP will gain a better example of weather proto AV is a little to strong or not. Because a correct proportion to the number of vehicles should be running it. This also concerns vehicle vs vehicle gameplay also. making people more willint to pull out their tank to vs another tanker. Gives excitement for both and tankers who are successful at winning that little battle will be rewarded better for their contribute to the team by bringing out the vehicle for the battle. Secondary thoughts but not the point of the thread: Also I think they might need to spread out the damage on tiers of AV. Leave proto AV damage where it is at right now but lower make a bigger gap between each tier. Maybe make it a little bigger SP investment into AV to get max effectiveness. This would make it harder to get to proto. But to gain the High damage proto has to offer people will more likely be willing to pay it to be a dedicated AV user but you will not get as many none dedicated AVs protoing out AV just because they have a few extra SP points they can spend into it.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1163	Posted - 2013.04.04 00:08:00 - [2] - Quote TL;DR My .02 ISK for what I DID read- The majority of vehicle-based AV needs to be buffed (missiles and small railguns), since infantry-based AV easily outclasses them.
BOZ MR BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 48	Posted - 2013.04.04 00:25:00 - [3] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: TL;DR My .02 ISK for what I DID read- The majority of vehicle-based AV needs to be buffed (missiles and small railguns), since infantry-based AV easily outclasses them. "Why don't we make tanks marked on everybodies screen and put a kill mark on it (while we buff AV and make ARs fire anti-tank shells that deal 500 damage per round )?" That is how I see this thread. Av should be nerfed but you still talking about buffing it.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects 79	Posted - 2013.04.04 00:38:00 - [4] - Quote BOZ MR wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: TL;DR My .02 ISK for what I DID read- The majority of vehicle-based AV needs to be buffed (missiles and small railguns), since infantry-based AV easily outclasses them. "Why don't we make tanks marked on everybodies screen and put a kill mark on it (while we buff AV and make ARs fire anti-tank shells that deal 500 damage per round )?" That is how I see this thread. Av should be nerfed but you still talking about buffing it. his post is small and you didn't even read it really. small rail turrets and small missiles have reduced damage(round 38% effectiveness) on vehicles/installations and should have a closer to base damage on vehicles/installations. btw thread=all the post/replies post= one reply
BOZ MR BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 48	Posted - 2013.04.04 00:40:00 - [5] - Quote ladwar wrote: BOZ MR wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: TL;DR My .02 ISK for what I DID read- The majority of vehicle-based AV needs to be buffed (missiles and small railguns), since infantry-based AV easily outclasses them. "Why don't we make tanks marked on everybodies screen and put a kill mark on it (while we buff AV and make ARs fire anti-tank shells that deal 500 damage per round )?" That is how I see this thread. Av should be nerfed but you still talking about buffing it. his post is small and you didn't even read it really. small rail turrets and small missiles have reduced damage(round 38% effectiveness) on vehicles/installations and should have a closer to base damage on vehicles/installations. btw thread=all the post/replies post= one reply I quoted wrong dude sorry. I was referring to OP.
Casius Hakoke Fenrir's Wolves 24	Posted - 2013.04.04 00:42:00 - [6] - Quote ladwar wrote: BOZ MR wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: TL;DR My .02 ISK for what I DID read- The majority of vehicle-based AV needs to be buffed (missiles and small railguns), since infantry-based AV easily outclasses them. "Why don't we make tanks marked on everybodies screen and put a kill mark on it (while we buff AV and make ARs fire anti-tank shells that deal 500 damage per round )?" That is how I see this thread. Av should be nerfed but you still talking about buffing it. his post is small and you didn't even read it really. small rail turrets and small missiles have reduced damage(round 38% effectiveness) on vehicles/installations and should have a closer to base damage on vehicles/installations. While I agree that the small turrets need a buff/fix, I don't think you need to give people MORE reasons to go after vehicles. Caeli SineDeo wrote: Interesting and well put together idea. LAV's are just death traps waiting to blow up, drop ships are pretty easy to shoot down, and everybody loves killing tanks. Now maybe the reason people don't use proto AV is because it is not needed to destroy vehicles, which would be a balance point.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 354	Posted - 2013.04.04 00:48:00 - [7] - Quote See this is where our community fails. Currently CCP is buffing things by giving more damage farther range flying faster. And this is something that will stop these types off buffs. People will actually spec into AV. People will actually spec into AV. Once AV comes a prelevent job instead of something to do on the side. CCP will able to get a better read of of where AV needs to go. AKA if AV becomes to controlling on the battle field CCP can balance it too where it needs. Also This system puts more risk on the AV side of things if people get a payout for killing someone with AV weapon they are going to climb that later to kill that annoying AV guy hiding on a building top by himself. So yes it paints a bigger target of vehicles but it is also painting a big target on AV. Also if a proto tank vs proto AV and he kills the AV guy 10 times he will gain a big pay out even if he loses his vehicle because each kill on the AV personal will pay out big to him. It is putting better rewards out their for the risks. I really think this system will add better gameplay here. And Might end up making it so CCP better balance things here. Currently driving a vehicle is mostly risk with little reward. You will gain little more risks but the rewards will become a lot better. And become high rewards if you do well over a match doing your job as a tank. And teammates will also get a big reward for protecting you from those pesky building camper making a team more willing to work with tank drivers causing it to be harder for AV in the end too.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 354	Posted - 2013.04.04 00:53:00 - [8] - Quote I want this to be implemented also because it will force proto AV to become more prelevent quicker. This will allow CCP to get a better view on adjustments needed to be made to AV or adjustments needed to be made to certain types of vehicles to make them stronger and allowing them to do what they need to do. As I said on secondary bases I would like AV to become a little harder to get into or have separate skills that effect it from infantry vs infantry weapons. Overall forcing more dedicated AV skill sets making it so not everyone runs proto AV because of the extra skill points they have. People only the dedicated AV people or long standing members of this game will be able to reach Proto AV.
Casius Hakoke Fenrir's Wolves 24	Posted - 2013.04.04 00:55:00 - [9] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: See this is where our community fails. Currently CCP is buffing things by giving more damage farther range flying faster. And this is something that will stop these types off buffs. People will actually spec into AV. People will actually spec into AV. Once AV comes a prelevent job instead of something to do on the side. CCP will able to get a better read of of where AV needs to go. AKA if AV becomes to controlling on the battle field CCP can balance it too where it needs. Also This system puts more risk on the AV side of things if people get a payout for killing someone with AV weapon they are going to climb that later to kill that annoying AV guy hiding on a building top by himself. So yes it paints a bigger target of vehicles but it is also painting a big target on AV. Also if a proto tank vs proto AV and he kills the AV guy 10 times he will gain a big pay out even if he loses his vehicle because each kill on the AV personal will pay out big to him. It is putting better rewards out their for the risks. I really think this system will add better gameplay here. And Might end up making it so CCP better balance things here. Currently driving a vehicle is mostly risk with little reward. You will gain little more risks but the rewards will become a lot better. And become high rewards if you do well over a match doing your job as a tank. And teammates will also get a big reward for protecting you from those pesky building camper making a team more willing to work with tank drivers causing it to be harder for AV in the end too. You have an interesting point. I agree that right now bringing out a vehicle in matches doesn't not relate to the chance to get better rewards, thus the risk to reward is a little messed up right now.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 261	Posted - 2013.04.04 01:38:00 - [10] - Quote deleted

Sev Alcatraz The Tritan Industries 203	Posted - 2013.04.04 02:25:00 - [11] - Quote I'm not trying to troll or anything but all I got from this thread was "buff av"/ make vehicles a bigger target >=/
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 139	Posted - 2013.04.04 02:33:00 - [12] - Quote Personally I always thought that the single most compelling reason one would skill into AV is so that they can kill things like tanks and dropships when they get out of hand.... Would extra points be nice? sure, but personally I specced into advanced level AV simply for the ability to deal with vehicles, I stick to conventional guns for making SP
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 57	Posted - 2013.04.04 02:59:00 - [13] - Quote if I could carry two main weapons I can guarantee you one would be a swarm launcher. as a ground troop I need to be able to deal with other ground units, as such the av's are next to useless for me.
Wako 75 SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 77	Posted - 2013.04.04 04:14:00 - [14] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: TL;DR My .02 ISK for what I DID read- The majority of vehicle-based AV needs to be buffed (missiles and small railguns), since infantry-based AV easily outclasses them. small railguns are fine missles need buff though


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