DUST Search - pay to win

Eris Ernaga wrote:

I feel this game is getting very pay to win at this moment aur is best used for skill boosters. After i ran out of all my boosters i realized just how **** exp was without boosters. And why should players be able to get drop suits before there skill level for aur. There bringing in a new system where members with an eve subscription and are paying 20 dollars a month will become a dust 514 gold player. Honestly i hate gold players why cant we all just be mercs why are people getting an unfair advantage. I think CCP is lying when they say dust isn't a pay to win game. Partially it isn't aur wont guarantee you everything but it sure as hell will give you a boost it's like going to a weight liftiing champion ship and taking steroids. I know CCP needs to make money but please make aur for original suits with the same stats and requirements as the isk variant. But maybe the aur comes with much cooler outfits. CCP is giving an unfair advantage to aur items I have seen aur variants much better for their level and with easier requirements. I also find it rude that CCP charged so damn much for aur items i mean players will be spending so much aur on one item.

It all stinks to me what do yal lthink?

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Eris Ernaga HAV Deployment Organization 86	Posted - 2013.04.01 21:53:00 - [1] - Quote I feel this game is getting very pay to win at this moment aur is best used for skill boosters. After i ran out of all my boosters i realized just how **** exp was without boosters. And why should players be able to get drop suits before there skill level for aur. There bringing in a new system where members with an eve subscription and are paying 20 dollars a month will become a dust 514 gold player. Honestly i hate gold players why cant we all just be mercs why are people getting an unfair advantage. I think CCP is lying when they say dust isn't a pay to win game. Partially it isn't aur wont guarantee you everything but it sure as hell will give you a boost it's like going to a weight liftiing champion ship and taking steroids. I know CCP needs to make money but please make aur for original suits with the same stats and requirements as the isk variant. But maybe the aur comes with much cooler outfits. CCP is giving an unfair advantage to aur items I have seen aur variants much better for their level and with easier requirements. I also find it rude that CCP charged so damn much for aur items i mean players will be spending so much aur on one item. It all stinks to me what do yal lthink?
Yotta Guns Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 9	Posted - 2013.04.01 22:33:00 - [2] - Quote I'm nervous about it honestly. But after a certain point you've spec'd into your important skills and getting boosters only helps people get into different roles more quickly. As for suits, and vehicles... That's what i'm more worried about. They're pushing it a little as is, but they're nut breaking it... At least not yet.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 87	Posted - 2013.04.01 22:36:00 - [3] - Quote So far, I feel like its working. As far as I know, i've never been completely outmatched just because someone was using aur. I am concerned, however, that people with boosters are getting over 50,000 sp per match while I get a measly 2 to 6,000 a match.
Mithridates VI Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 567	Posted - 2013.04.01 22:44:00 - [4] - Quote slypie11 wrote: people with boosters are getting over 50,000 sp per match while I get a measly 2 to 6,000 a match. wut
DISGRUNTLEDev Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 12	Posted - 2013.04.01 22:45:00 - [5] - Quote They only get 50% more than you. So your 2 to 6000 a match, for them, is 3 to 9000. You are falling behind, but its not as bad as you think.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 15	Posted - 2013.04.01 22:46:00 - [6] - Quote It's just on the brink of becoming a Pay2Win. So close. Though, at least you can still grind away with just getting good games. That's what I have been doing :D
Casius Hakoke Fenrir's Wolves 19	Posted - 2013.04.01 22:57:00 - [7] - Quote You do realize that the 'gold' members was a joke, just like the rest of that video. April 1st.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 87	Posted - 2013.04.01 22:57:00 - [8] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: They only get 50% more than you. So your 2 to 6000 a match, for them, is 3 to 9000. You are falling behind, but its not as bad as you think. I think I may have misheard my teammate on comms
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 447	Posted - 2013.04.02 00:06:00 - [9] - Quote And also there's the fact that AUR items will be available on the market for ISK so nothing will be P2W. Don't worry.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 244	Posted - 2013.04.02 00:18:00 - [10] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: It's just on the brink of becoming a Pay2Win. So close. Though, at least you can still grind away with just getting good games. That's what I have been doing :D Not even close. There's basically nothing that you can get with AUR that you can't get without AUR by waiting longer. That's the definition of not P2W.

Rachoi HavoK Core 40	Posted - 2013.04.02 01:35:00 - [11] - Quote its not really P2W, not anywhere near. yes the boosters give a jumpstart on stocking up SP, not exactly something to worry the most about, since you can actually catch up given the patince. granted some of those arum weapon lines that give PRO teir at ADV training is a smidgen annoying, though i just think 'if i kill him he loses aurum' so i hunt them. then there are the Blueprint Contracts that you can get for some of the lowest grade things in the game. that wont help you rise the ranks fast, but it would help on saving a few isk per match. i do use the 'Raven' suit, yes, but that is just my base, and i know to use everything i can that is above standard... i love that edge i earned
Val'herik Dorn SyNergy Gaming 389	Posted - 2013.04.02 01:48:00 - [12] - Quote The items for aur that are better are hold overs from closed beta when they came with lesser fitting requirements in the spirit of "aurum do more faster." It was bad and they have slowly removed a majority of them some have escaped the wrathful eye of wang. But a few have managed to hide in plain sight. I don't see them lasting much longer however. So eventually yea you can get better gear early but yohr skills won't be up to the level of the isk variant users. This will be even more apparent in suits when they have bonuses. Another thing to note is that when we get a player run market instead of our CCP overlords graciously price controlling and supllying our suits someone with aur can supply those suits for isk. Think plex for dust. So nce they fix the remaining high tier lower tier fitting reqs. It will be better
Creedair Talor The Phoenix Federation 4	Posted - 2013.04.02 01:54:00 - [13] - Quote The gold member was a joke the wang ship should have given it away.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 272	Posted - 2013.04.02 03:41:00 - [14] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: I feel this game is getting very pay to win at this moment aur is best used for skill boosters. After i ran out of all my boosters i realized just how **** exp was without boosters. And why should players be able to get drop suits before there skill level for aur. There bringing in a new system where members with an eve subscription and are paying 20 dollars a month will become a dust 514 gold player. Honestly i hate gold players why cant we all just be mercs why are people getting an unfair advantage. I think CCP is lying when they say dust isn't a pay to win game. Partially it isn't aur wont guarantee you everything but it sure as hell will give you a boost it's like going to a weight liftiing champion ship and taking steroids. I know CCP needs to make money but please make aur for original suits with the same stats and requirements as the isk variant. But maybe the aur comes with much cooler outfits. CCP is giving an unfair advantage to aur items I have seen aur variants much better for their level and with easier requirements. I also find it rude that CCP charged so damn much for aur items i mean players will be spending so much aur on one item. It all stinks to me what do yal lthink? You're worried about AUR items having some advantage? just Buy It With Isk. Isk. When the player market opens. PS. think this is my fifteenth time writing this statement on fifteenth different thread.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3306	Posted - 2013.04.02 03:47:00 - [15] - Quote OMG... you actually fell for that "gold member" thing? its an April Fool's, did you not see the p3n!s-shaped ship, and the new elf race? AUR doesn't get you superior gear, Usually there is an ISK equivalent (in most cases) that is just as good, just requires more skill. Example, killswitch GEK = Duvolle.
iLLMaTiC619 KiLo. 45	Posted - 2013.04.02 03:49:00 - [16] - Quote slypie11 wrote: So far, I feel like its working. As far as I know, i've never been completely outmatched just because someone was using aur. I am concerned, however, that people with boosters are getting over 50,000 sp per match while I get a measly 2 to 6,000 a match. you must be a noob... noone is getting over 50,000 sp per match with or without a booster.. I use both booster and never seen someone get that much sp after a match...
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc 41	Posted - 2013.04.02 11:26:00 - [17] - Quote Other then that Fused Grenade, I didn't see any other pay to win items. I think someone who pays should get a massive boost in game, we are on a whole different level here. In EvE you have to pay for your subscription. In this game, the subscription is free so the main market driver, PLEX, isn't there. So the economy in this game is gonna skew. They need stuff that is totally off the chain that players with AUR can buy and then sell into the game to other players. WHY? Because CCP needs money. Note there was no /sarcasm there. Pay to win needs to be pay to win.
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 180	Posted - 2013.04.02 11:46:00 - [18] - Quote Its pay to get ahead and get stuff before other players Just because you have unlocked the best gear before anyone else doesnt mean you are any good at using it
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 416	Posted - 2013.04.02 12:04:00 - [19] - Quote What about people with surround sound headphones? some people dont have those does that mean they are unfair and they should no be allowed? It gives a advantage. Some players cannot afford it. So remove support? What about mics? Some players cant afford those either. so they have a unfair advantage So ban mics? Fast internet is unfair! Too ******* bad. Keyboards and mice? If you choose not to buy one thats not someone elses problem. Your logic fails. What about people with massive tv screens? you dont think having a 65" tv does not make it easier to get headshots or spot people at distance? You cant afford that tv Not my fault you have a monetary disability That's your problem. I dont see a good reason i have to play on your 15" ghetto box with your crappy internet connect using your broken down ps3 with speakers made out of magnets and duct tape. Same goes for all AUR items and boosters. Your problem, you solve it.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2343	Posted - 2013.04.02 13:00:00 - [20] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Its pay to get ahead and get stuff before other players Just because you have unlocked the best gear before anyone else doesnt mean you are any good at using it Also, in the case of most weapons, using the Advanced weapon with Proto skills will be more of an advantage than using the AUR Proto weapon with only Advanced skills.

Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 876	Posted - 2013.04.02 17:24:00 - [21] - Quote Direct from the in game war barge announcements: "AUR allows you to do more faster" "Short on time? Short on skill? Buy some AUR today." Noticing a trend? If not let me spell it out, AUR is a short cut for the impatient. It gets you to "max level" (not that there really is such a thing in a CCP game, we're actually talking a fully developed sub specialization of a chosen player defined battle field role here) faster. Here are a few things about it though; 1) The best item in every class is ISK based (our salvage only if you want to include officer gear) 2) AUR items often lag a sliver behind their ISK counterparts, or take a bit more to fit 3) Even when AUR items are as good as ISK items they are still weaker than the best items (see point 1) but more than that if you run an item with fewer SP invested to support it you're getting less performance out of it even if the stats on the gear itself is equal. 4) When you fully level up a given specialization further SP and gear goes into trying out other roles because that specialization (for example Assault) is now capped out completely. This means that even the advantage of boosters (hands down the strongest AUR item apart from the UVT) is 100% temporary because everyone will get there eventually. Here's one more note, feeling like having AUR give any advantage means it's P2W because some people will have to play against that when they don't have it? Still feeling like that despite the reasons outlined above? Simple fix if your KDR stat matters more than playing the game turn on passive SP and go play something else for awhile, CCP will give you free sp within their free to play game just for creating a character. If you don't want to play against the best gear before you have it then you don't have to, you just have to wait. But take my advice and play anyway, I'm a Logi, my KDR is kitten compared to most people but I can still help my squad win and often top the end of match boards. Whats more I can take my free fit and go up against characters who (through Dev Hax) have max skills and gear and I can take 4.5 of them (the last guy was into armor when he dropped me) on my own. I'm living proof that you don't have to have the best gun game, or the best gear, to kill a Merc running with the best gear and max SP. So does AUR help? Sure. But it's player skill and teamwork that decide matches not gear and certainly not AUR. tl;dr = If you think Dust is P2W you've clearly not been playing long enough, patience and practice will help improve your experience. 0.02 ISK Cross
Eris Ernaga HAV Deployment Organization 86	Posted - 2013.04.03 03:13:00 - [22] - Quote Think about it like this i never use one booster and in the future i make it to 50 million sp another player whos used boster to date has over 75 million sp from active booster alone with his passive im not sure of the exact number but he prolly has close to 90 mill. It is a huge bonus.
Solarisjock Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 19	Posted - 2013.04.03 03:27:00 - [23] - Quote This biggest point everyone who says P2W misses, is that AUR items still follow the same skills based bonus's. if some has minimum skills and a Killswitch GEK while all i have is a Miltia assault rifle, but with Weaponry 5 and a militia light damage mod, I will hit close to as hard as he will. All a SP booster using character gets to be is more versatile, as they will max out at lvl. 5 stuff sooner, letting them focus down another tree. it does not magically make them more likely to win.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 17	Posted - 2013.04.06 00:49:00 - [24] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: It's just on the brink of becoming a Pay2Win. So close. Though, at least you can still grind away with just getting good games. That's what I have been doing :D Not even close. There's basically nothing that you can get with AUR that you can't get without AUR by waiting longer. That's the definition of not P2W. Personally... I would rather just buy a complete game for 60$. Plus, I said it was not a P2W, I just said it was close, because active boosters give you a very strong advantage including AUR items, which let you decimate noobs without much fear of a loss, as long as uou have just a bit of skill. I guess I am just salty cause I generally dislike free to play games.
Thrillhouse Van Houten DIOS EX. 56	Posted - 2013.04.06 01:04:00 - [25] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: Think about it like this i never use one booster and in the future i make it to 50 million sp another player whos used boster to date has over 75 million sp from active booster alone with his passive im not sure of the exact number but he prolly has close to 90 mill. It is a huge bonus. This is compelling and true... ...but doesn't necessarily mean all that much on the battlefield. It only takes, say, 8 million SP to Max EVERY skill within the paradigm of a given profession (Cal Assault dropsuit, AR Ops/Prof, Light Sharpshooter/Prof, etc..) plus all the passives that apply everyone (Dropsuit Command, Scan Precision, Shield Boost Systems, Shield Control, Weaponry, etc...). My point is that the guy with 80mil SP doesn't have a re-god-damned-diculous, awesome, powerful Assault character...he has 10 or 12 maxed out professions. The guy with 64mil SP has 8 or 9. The guy with 16mil SP has 2.5 professions. The ultimate point is that you can only play ONE profession at a time on the battlefield. Supply Depots and respawning allow you to change that at a moments notice, but you can still only operate one at a time. This is all regardless of the fact that SP doesn't translate directly into player skill. A guy with 4mil SP who is utterly awesome with his LR will fry many people with 10mil SP who aren't as good as he or who get caught in the open...


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