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[Drop Ships] 2 Armour Hardners and 2 Reppers

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Judge Rhadamanthus Vacuum Cleaner. LLC 37	Posted - 2013.03.31 12:06:00 - [1] - Quote I have be playing round with a Grim with : 804 Shields 2124 Armour Damage Control Shield Amp I limited it to this build as this is what a Prom can take at the same build. I went into a few skirmishes and ended up in 2 of them against a tank and a swarm guy (adv tank, mil swarm). I was able to tank at least 2 full clips from the swarm only. Then the tanks blaster and the swarm at the same time. I hung in the air still so they could hammer me. Does anyone have any experience or comments on this sort of high manage build as it compares to a normal tank or shield build? it seemed to work well, but against better geared players no so sure. I could tank a good few hits and still escape if i needed to.
G Torq ALTA B2O 125	Posted - 2013.03.31 12:13:00 - [2] - Quote I would suggest to have this moved to the Rookie Training section, and/or go there to investigate existing DropShip building posts. As for the build, the Shield Amp will give you very little extra (when you've taken the first hit, your shields are gone), and the Damage Control should perhaps be replaced with a hardener if possible.
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 211	Posted - 2013.03.31 12:29:00 - [3] - Quote Actually since DCUs are a high slot item (and thus can't be replaced by an armor hardener) I'd say keep it. But replace the shield recharger with an AB, if it'll fit. As far as actual tankability, can you give me the stats for the reps and hardeners you're using? I want to run some numbers. Just need: Hardener reduction amount Repair amount Number of pulses Pulse duration Cooldown I ask because I've heard other people make similar claims about HAVs, but I just can't get the numbers to add up.
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1187	Posted - 2013.03.31 12:38:00 - [4] - Quote god armour tanking is way to much of a hassle. Way to many modules to watch out for.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects 66	Posted - 2013.03.31 12:40:00 - [5] - Quote shield amp is a passive shield restistance module, but i would agree that the ab would be more helpful. i think a plate might help you live longer rather then a second repper.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 348	Posted - 2013.03.31 12:48:00 - [6] - Quote Remove DCU it actually reduces your overall protection when ran with 2 active hardeners. Here is the information on it. 2 hardeners 41.3% 2 hardeners 1dcu 38.1% As they said if you can put a afterburner on there. Still the afterburner only gives a 10% boost so it is not much it is pretty said how little dropships can handle they are basically stuck running the whole match once a decent guy with AV comes out.
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 176	Posted - 2013.03.31 13:00:00 - [7] - Quote Only 2 ppl were shooting at you Chances are milita swarms 1200 damage, anyone with advanced would seriously put a dent in that thing, add in FG and railguns in general that wil get whacked no problem but either way a dropship will get whacked anyways I have the same fit except i have a plate whacked on so i have around 3k in armor, plus a MCRU because why not I need to test it more in skirmish but in general dropships are a joke no matter how you tank it or fit it, 550k pinata with no WP for it either They do need more hp in general but also to move alot faster and be more agile
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 211	Posted - 2013.03.31 14:03:00 - [8] - Quote Okay, so...math. First off, resists. With two 25% hardeners and one 9% DCU you have 25+(25.87)+(9.57)=51.88% resistance. Now, we're talking about shield AND armor HP versus a swarm launcher, so I'm going to refer to your total HP as (shieldHP/.7)+(ArmorHP/1.3)=2782. The light efficient rep does 155 per pulse, at five pulses per cycle, three seconds between each pulse, total cooldown of 30 seconds. That means that while the rep is running you're tanking 51 DPS before resists. So in order to break your tank during that 15 second period a person has to be doing 51/(1-.5188) = 107 DPS. You were using dual reps, allowing this period to last for 30 seconds The Anti-Armor starter fit has a militia swarm launcher with a single militia damage mod for 1236 damage every 4.5 seconds for about 275 DPS. So as we can see this is enough in and of itself to break your tank. Now, we can think of an active tank as being an additive (rather than multiplicative like hardeners) damage reduction. Basically your active tank is subtracted from the incoming DPS to give us the effective DPS. What you did was reduce the incoming DPS from the swarm to 275-107=168 DPS. This means that, in essence, each swarm volley only did 168*4.5=756 damage, so it would take 2782/756=4 volleys to kill you. That's the two magazines you tanked.
Judge Rhadamanthus Vacuum Cleaner. LLC 37	Posted - 2013.03.31 14:33:00 - [9] - Quote Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Hardener reduction amount Repair amount Number of pulses Pulse duration Cooldown My Repping CRU grim has : (a CRU is equipped so only one H-Slot is free) Armour Hardeners each module (2 fitted) Hardener reduction amount = 25% duration = 60 seconds Cooldown = 15 seconds Armour Reppers Repair amount =155 a pulse Number of pulses = 5 pulses Pulse duration = 15 seconds Cooldown = 15 seconds CPulse Interval = 3 seconds Shield Reppers Repair amount =105 a pulse Number of pulses = 5 pulses Pulse duration = 5 seconds Cooldown = 30 seconds Pulses = 5
DUST Fiend Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2178	Posted - 2013.03.31 14:47:00 - [10] - Quote I personally go full tank with a shield extender, booster, an armor plate, an armor rep, and two 25% resists. Having blueberries spawn in your ship is usually worse for your team anyways, so I personally don't miss the CRU at all. This gives me a lot more survivability, and is a bit more forgiving. I've tried running two reps and two resists and the problem is that flying a dropship actually requires a lot of attention, and it's very easy to let one of those resists lapse. With such a weak tank, all it takes is forgetting to activate those resists for a few seconds and you're toast.

Judge Rhadamanthus Vacuum Cleaner. LLC 37	Posted - 2013.03.31 14:52:00 - [11] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Only 2 ppl were shooting at you Chances are milita swarms 1200 damage, anyone with advanced would seriously put a dent in that thing, add in FG and railguns in general that wil get whacked no problem but either way a dropship will get whacked anyways I have the same fit except i have a plate whacked on so i have around 3k in armor, plus a MCRU because why not I need to test it more in skirmish but in general dropships are a joke no matter how you tank it or fit it, 550k pinata with no WP for it either They do need more hp in general but also to move alot faster and be more agile Agree with all. My main fit is a Prom (mainly for testing. No testing, no feedback = no fixes) It has : 1552 Shield 3156 Armour Plate Repper Hardener PG module Shield Extender Shield Amp That gives me a strong base. BUT...... ....i wondered if running modules may lead to a stronger ship when facing the variety of attacks, as in giving a flexibility of defence. I can use shields to take the sting out of a hit but not absorb the full hit on purpose. Is there an advantage to running shield repps on a weak shield so you allow your shields to get breached into your armour? Forge and rails eat shields but not armour as much. Swarms the opposite. So a high shield ship will bear the full brunt of a forge but resist a swarm. Armour the opposite. Example - Against a Forge So by running a weaker shield I can gain resistance to a forge by deliberately letting it through so it hits my Armour (with resists) thus reducing its HP potential. After it hits I can repp the shield back up and also start an armour repp too restoring my HP. Example - Against a Swarm The weaker shield I have will be effective against a swarm but it still gets through. Once it does I fix up the shields and armour and I'm ready for round 2. BUT the 2nd volley will hit more armour but I have the rep running still and the 2nd hardener and 2nd rep. I do not know how this would really stack up but it allows a degree of prep and responce to the attack coming in. Add evasion and It has worked well. (rail installations are too much though) I can equip a Grim with : Shield Hardner @ 30% Shield Repp 2 x Armour 25% hardener 2 X Armour Repper. It feels able to respond to the attacks that occur rather than just sucking them up. Is it better than straight stats? Hard to test and not really sure.
That fine fellow Forgotten Militia 1	Posted - 2013.03.31 16:57:00 - [12] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: god armour tanking is way to much of a hassle. Way to many modules to watch out for. Very true, won't argue there. But armour tanking, you can take a pretty damn good beating before going down, if you manage to learn how to control all those modules.
Cody Sietz The Tritan Industries 67	Posted - 2013.03.31 19:30:00 - [13] - Quote This is a interesting fit, the only problem I'd imagine is that first hit and fit the enemy combines efforts to blow you outta the sky. Not to mention the handling of each module would be confusing (at least it would at first) and a mistake would leave you sustainable to damage. I usually tank with a grim and throw a armour and shield repper for when things get hairy. I think my grim has around 1400 shields and 2800-3000 armour, and my CRU fit has way less shields (I honestly forgot) also torque booster are a must.
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 980	Posted - 2013.03.31 19:35:00 - [14] - Quote you need to run both resists at the same time or you are wasting them
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 348	Posted - 2013.03.31 23:48:00 - [15] - Quote Again people know so little about what they run. Do not listen to anyones math here besides mine because 10b isk down none of these guys know anything. 1 25% resist gives 25% resist you have 2 25% resist running at the same time you gain little over 41% on your over all resist. When you add a DCU unit in it counts weird into the stacking penalty and you end up with less resist over all while the DCU is running so with 2 35% resist and a DCU on at the same time you only get a little over 38% resist. So again because I see incorrect info I am putting that up again. No I see even more incorrect info on the repper. The armor rep gives you a rep ever second so you gain 15 pulses total. If you have the 155 rep you will get 155 hp back 15 times. Or 155 repped 15 seconds with a pulse every second. CCP is incorrect with there data they show. So you can gain a total of 2325 of the repper each time you run it.
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 180	Posted - 2013.04.01 10:34:00 - [16] - Quote Looks like i get 10b ISK from the Imperfects since i know about stacking pens Thats an even easier heist than PFBHz did on PRO Back on topic I ran a fair few dropships yday in skirmish and its pointless, i managed to tank a few things now n again but it go to the point where i had to hide because AV was hunting me that much, MCRU is pointless If a railgun tank turned up that was me gone The dropship wields no WP except for kills which tend to require you to hang around in air so your gunners can hit em at least, MCRU no points, no boot button, no use to it because you really cant seem to tank too much damage I dont think i will bring out a dropship again, i can do the same in a souped up LAV except better
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 341	Posted - 2013.04.01 10:43:00 - [17] - Quote Caeli... Are you sure your maths is right? I just got a total buff to resist from two 25% hardeners to be just over 52%. That's including the stacking penality of 87%.
Judge Rhadamanthus Vacuum Cleaner. LLC 37	Posted - 2013.04.01 12:53:00 - [18] - Quote SO i tried : Grim 30 % Shield Hardener Shield Repper 2 x Hardener Modules 2 x Armour Reppers Actually worked really well. If targeted by a forge i did not activate the shield hardener. I only did that if a swarm was on its way. This pushed the forge damage into my armou which reduces it's DPS. Same with popping shild hardeners when swarms coming. I did just drop out the air though in the end while on full shields and full armour. I think a derp ship hit me as I got no hit display but I may have been one shotted. I saw [users name withheld] and he uses strong AV so i wanted to stay in his LOS and stay still so he could hit me. Not sure though if it was him or what though as my death was listed as died (I did not jump out) which should have shown as a kill to av if I was shot. *Why Run A DS This Build?* Testing and feedback. That's the only reason. Yes much feedback has been given but so far nothing on, amongst others : 1) WP from spawns - I'm tracking how many spawn in a CRU ship so I can feedback what would be a fair point system. 2) Actual map points that cause most collision damage and so on... I can't complain about them and request changes unless I test them myself.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 348	Posted - 2013.04.01 14:19:00 - [19] - Quote Yes I know my stacking penalties. Go test it in a controlled environment like I did. Have someone with a forge and another guy with fluxes. One guy flux your shields of the other one forge you with no resist running. rep armor back repeat with one resist running. rep armor back. put on two resist on. repeat again with 2 resist and a dcu. YOu will get your answer. Unless CCP has put out a recent patch in the last 2 weaks that fixed it which I highly doubt. Problem is everyone is reading what they are suppose to do. And people like me who have tested many things realize that just because CCP says it does that does not mean it does it. So who ever thinks they are getting a free 10b isk are going to be slightly poorer after losing this bet. :)
CPL Bloodstone SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 43	Posted - 2013.04.01 14:44:00 - [20] - Quote " did just drop out the air though in the end while on full shields and full armour. I think a derp ship hit me as I got no hit display but I may have been one shotted. I saw [users name withheld] and he uses strong AV so i wanted to stay in his LOS and stay still so he could hit me." I one shot derp ships with my Forge gun sometimes and i believe, like the tanks, there is a sweet spot you can hit. hard to hit though unless you stay still. personally i love flying more than i love blowing up tanks. Its just not worth the isk or time to bring them out. I still do everyonce in a while to keep up my flying skills. usually as soon as i bring it out, you have 10 people switch to swarms for the easy War points hoping to catch a full ship. still skilling into derpships just painfull.



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