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Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
60
   |
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Detonating Crossbow.
adapted from mining technology, this weapon accelerates spikes containing explosive charges into a target by using a series of electromagnets, these charges can be detonated remotely for extreme damage to anything they are lodged in. Due to the shaped nature of the charges, explosive radius is minimized, and due to the size of the charges, each must be hand loaded before firing.
basically a long range remote explosive crossbow, you can build up a number of charges on a target to punch a tank/dropship out of the sky or use it as an anti infantry weapon for medium range
to prevent it from being stupid OP it has basically no explosive radius, and any charges that hit infantry must be detonated within 3 seconds or they will have been removed and therefore useless.
no zoom feature, L1 is used as the detonator, highly accurate hip fire, projectile weapon, not hit scan. up to 15(probably less?) charges carried.
high damage(kill basically any unshielded infantry unit in a single detonation, shielded units take high damage, but have plenty of time to run) has fairly high negative mods toward shields(secondary variant, specifcally tuned towards shields, but deals significantly less damage to armor due to having less room for actual explosives) basically 2 shot regular infantry(militia fits from full health), deals extra against armor tanked things, deals significantly less against shields(shields keep the shot from fully penetrating and therefore it cannot deal anywhere near as much damage)
and to prevent close range useage, it will simply punch right through infantry units at close range due to the incredible kinetic energy build up during launch(I'm thinking 20 meters out minimum to be used against infantry) |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
621
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
No |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
any reason why, or are you just still mad at me? |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
1253
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:any reason why, or are you just still mad at me?
Ever played Blacklight: Retribution?
If not, look up videos of the "exploding tomahawk".
Then you will know the horror. |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:any reason why, or are you just still mad at me? Ever played Blacklight: Retribution? If not, look up videos of the "exploding tomahawk". Then you will know the horror.
Never even heard of that game, but that sounds badass. and shots to infantry do have to be detonated shortly or they become inert. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
622
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:any reason why, or are you just still mad at me?
A long range one shotting weapon that can be easily use in cqb, and a crossbow at that, the community has spoken many times against them
Btw are you bring that up because you knew you were wrong? |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 19:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:any reason why, or are you just still mad at me? A long range one shotting weapon that can be easily use in cqb, and a crossbow at that, the community has spoken many times against them Btw are you bring that up because you knew you were wrong?
1. I'm right that Light vehicles should not be able to stand up to anti armor meant for taking on things with 5x their EHP, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about.
2. assuming you mean close quarters, you have to be a minimum distance(my thought was 20m, maybe up that to 30, possibly 40) for the detonation feature to activate, and it will only act as a one shot when the target is down to armor, shields basically stop the things dead(still take a hit, but you can definitely run before it's reloaded)
its a two shot kill weapon that has to be reloaded between shots. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
622
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 20:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:any reason why, or are you just still mad at me? A long range one shotting weapon that can be easily use in cqb, and a crossbow at that, the community has spoken many times against them Btw are you bring that up because you knew you were wrong? 1. I'm right that Light vehicles should not be able to stand up to anti armor meant for taking on things with 5x their EHP, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about. 2. assuming you mean close quarters, you have to be a minimum distance(my thought was 20m, maybe up that to 30, possibly 40) for the detonation feature to activate, and it will only act as a one shot when the target is down to armor, shields basically stop the things dead(still take a hit, but you can definitely run before it's reloaded) its a two shot kill weapon that has to be reloaded between shots.
1. You may be right as far as real life goes but not for game balance
2. That makes armor tanking useless as suits like heavies have only small amounts of shields compared to armor, not even the mass driver does this
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Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 20:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:any reason why, or are you just still mad at me? A long range one shotting weapon that can be easily use in cqb, and a crossbow at that, the community has spoken many times against them Btw are you bring that up because you knew you were wrong? 1. I'm right that Light vehicles should not be able to stand up to anti armor meant for taking on things with 5x their EHP, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about. 2. assuming you mean close quarters, you have to be a minimum distance(my thought was 20m, maybe up that to 30, possibly 40) for the detonation feature to activate, and it will only act as a one shot when the target is down to armor, shields basically stop the things dead(still take a hit, but you can definitely run before it's reloaded) its a two shot kill weapon that has to be reloaded between shots. 1. You may be right as far as real life goes but not for game balance 2. That makes armor tanking useless as suits like heavies have only small amounts of shields compared to armor, not even the mass driver does this
1. militia should kill militia, and no open-top ever made will have its occupants survive a direct hit from a volley of missiles, it's basic logic.
2. I have seen about... 4 i think? armor tanked infantry. it's generally regarded as worse because it relies on having a logi crammed in your colon if you want to survive. it would do roughly 500 a detonation(base, bonuses factor in later) and again, shields stop these things cold(I'm thinking maybe 250 damage to shields) it is made to deal specifically with armor. if you don't use armor or you still have shields, it's basically worthless. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
623
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 20:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:any reason why, or are you just still mad at me? A long range one shotting weapon that can be easily use in cqb, and a crossbow at that, the community has spoken many times against them Btw are you bring that up because you knew you were wrong? 1. I'm right that Light vehicles should not be able to stand up to anti armor meant for taking on things with 5x their EHP, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about. 2. assuming you mean close quarters, you have to be a minimum distance(my thought was 20m, maybe up that to 30, possibly 40) for the detonation feature to activate, and it will only act as a one shot when the target is down to armor, shields basically stop the things dead(still take a hit, but you can definitely run before it's reloaded) its a two shot kill weapon that has to be reloaded between shots. 1. You may be right as far as real life goes but not for game balance 2. That makes armor tanking useless as suits like heavies have only small amounts of shields compared to armor, not even the mass driver does this
1. militia should kill militia, and no open-top ever made will have its occupants survive a direct hit from a volley of missiles, it's basic logic.
2. I have seen about... 4 i think? armor tanked infantry. it's generally regarded as worse because it relies on having a logi crammed in your colon if you want to survive. it would do roughly 500 a detonation(base, bonuses factor in later) and again, shields stop these things cold(I'm thinking maybe 250 damage to shields) it is made to deal specifically with armor. if you don't use armor or you still have shields, it's basically worthless.[/quote]
1. That's true but it shouldn't be one shotted and again, realism vs balance
2. It really doesn't, if anything it's meant to give you a larger buffer than shields can with a constantly running armor repairer which makes logis a bit less important, you're making the mass driver useless because it's only advantage would be an explosive radius, you're numbers with it are overpowered no ifs, ands, or buts. Armor tanking is supposed to be just as viable as shield tanking |
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Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 20:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hmmm. Maybe a lower number of shots then, down to 6 in reserve? I mean it as an anti-heavy armor weapon that requires accuracy(and I'm assuming that drop is not programmed into the game, elsewise I would have included have to account for that as well.) I don't want it to be something that is a be-all end all.
maybe keep the shots at 10(total, 1 to start and 9 in reserve), and drop the damage down to 300 base 100 v. shields the proto can have higher damage.
maybe have the different variants have different damages and ammo capacities? breach with higher damage but fewer shots, assault with a faster reload time and more shots, but weaker shots)
the way I had intended it's use was as a kind of support/killblow weapon for tanks, you pelt a few of these in while it's shields are up and your team is wearing them down, then detonate(15 second timer for vehicle use maybe? or they can be removed by repair tools? maybe both?) for massive damage against it's armor, something to support a coordinated effort, it's why I put so much stock into making it borderline worthless against shields, so you would need your team to get through them.
EDIT: lowered shield damage by 50, and another thought: If it has to go through shields but also hits armor, it uses the explosive bonus(extra armor damage) but the lower base left from having to pierce the shields. and it is still manual detonation. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
623
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 20:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Even the current weapons meant to be less effective against shields aren't this lopsided, that's pretty much the role of av grenades but with slightly different attributes that let it also be used against infantry |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
64
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 20:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Even the current weapons meant to be less effective against shields aren't this lopsided, that's pretty much the role of av grenades but with slightly different attributes that let it also be used against infantry
if it has too much damage, it's over powered, if not enough then it's already got it's role filled. why have anything beyond the AR, 3 different grenades, and the swarm launcher? the forge gun does basically the same damage(as the swarm launcher), has the same range(300m) the assault rifle and it's variants cover all combat situations, and the grenades fulfill their roles nicely. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
624
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 21:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Because those aren't the only roles to be filled, we don't have aa shor range high shield damage av weapon, vice versa for armor, or, a high rof high recoil long range rifle that does more damage to shields, your design introduces a weapon yoy say is meant for Av but yours allows for easy use against infantry |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
66
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 21:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Because those aren't the only roles to be filled, we don't have aa shor range high shield damage av weapon, vice versa for armor, or, a high rof high recoil long range rifle that does more damage to shields, your design introduces a weapon yoy say is meant for Av but yours allows for easy use against infantry
and the forge gun can't be used for easy anti-infantry? the mass driver cannot be used as an anti-vehicle weapon?
you have to be a fair distance out to kill someone by exploding them, too close and it will basically do almost nothing(the impact does deal damage, but not enough to be worthwhile, and the arming distance prevents the CQC that hip firing only tends to enable)
I think it is a worthwhile idea for the changes it can bring to combat, you only see a role to be filled by an tailor-made weapon fit for exactly one task and one task only, anything else is too powerful or too weak. except in terms of AV, nothing will ever be weak enough in your opinion from what I have gathered. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
624
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 21:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's much harder to use those in roles other than they are meant, and this is still a mid range instant armor killer. That's not what I said, most weapons cam be used outside their role but not to the same effect as dedicated weapons, what you want is a jack of all trade weapon that can kill basically anything you point it at with very little effort, which is why you try to justify the imbalance vs dropships and lavs |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
66
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 21:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:It's much harder to use those in roles other than they are meant, and this is still a mid range instant armor killer. That's not what I said, most weapons cam be used outside their role but not to the same effect as dedicated weapons, what you want is a jack of all trade weapon that can kill basically anything you point it at with very little effort, which is why you try to justify the imbalance vs dropships and lavs
no, I want this to require skill. I want there to be drop for sniper rifles, I want assault rifles to not be an instant domination for 90% of encounters, spraying and praying. I want this to have drop, and enough drawbacks that using it properly gives one a sense of actually being good at the game.
the LAVs are ill suited for what you want them to be(high speed instant-kill firing godcars) and the dropships don't have any real recourse beyond good gunners, and are still missing many of their support modules in favor of tanks having theirs.
I want this to kill tanks and vehicles that have been weakened with little effort due to the fact that they are basically dead anyways. I want infantry to get killed by this if they are already weakened(see the vehicles thing right above this) and to be able to shrug it off and get to cover if they aren't weakened so there is more of an encouragement to use this against vehicles and hard targets instead of light infantry hence the massive reduction vs shields most infantry you're firing against would have shields of some type up thereby negating 90% of the threat of this weapon.
I intend for the reload to take 1.5 seconds at it's fastest(proto assault, maxed light reload prof.), no ability to zoom in, and to have some fairly wide spread on the hipfire when moving. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
625
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 23:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
In what sense is having a purposely weak weapon for a finishing blow a good idea? If the target isn't hit with the same if not more power than it was to start woth it's given a chance to heal, this basically sounds like you want to take vehicle kills from dedicated Av. This isn't about making lavs or dropships kill more it's about making them survive, or have you not understood anything I've been saying? Losing your shields IS NOT BEING WEAKENED if you are in armor tanked, how can you not realize this? The disadvantages you gave are offset by the I win button spam every few seconds |
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