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SquaggaTCT
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
43
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 08:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why do the prototype dropships have lower pg/cpu than the lower classed ones? I mean .. it just doesnt make sense |
WyrmHero1945
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
33
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 08:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because they have a mobile CRU included. I don't think it uses slots either... |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1062
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 08:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
SquaggaTCT wrote:Why do the prototype dropships have lower pg/cpu than the lower classed ones? I mean .. it just doesnt make sense
The current theory is because of the built-in CRU, but as I've previously stated the amount of PG/CPU taken would equal out to what you would have used on a mobile CRU in the first place; so it's redundant. It's basically an "additional" high-powered slot that is already filled with the PG/CPU taken out for you against your will. |
SquaggaTCT
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:SquaggaTCT wrote:Why do the prototype dropships have lower pg/cpu than the lower classed ones? I mean .. it just doesnt make sense The current theory is because of the built-in CRU, but as I've previously stated the amount of PG/CPU taken would equal out to what you would have used on a mobile CRU in the first place; so it's redundant. It's basically an "additional" high-powered slot that is already filled with the PG/CPU taken out for you against your will. But I dont want a cru in my dropship at all. I hate you blue dots. The last thing I want is you feeding off mof my slipstream. I just want to tank out my dropship more.wtf |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1062
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
SquaggaTCT wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:SquaggaTCT wrote:Why do the prototype dropships have lower pg/cpu than the lower classed ones? I mean .. it just doesnt make sense The current theory is because of the built-in CRU, but as I've previously stated the amount of PG/CPU taken would equal out to what you would have used on a mobile CRU in the first place; so it's redundant. It's basically an "additional" high-powered slot that is already filled with the PG/CPU taken out for you against your will. But I dont want a cru in my dropship at all. I hate you blue dots. The last thing I want is you feeding off mof my slipstream. I just want to tank out my dropship more.wtf
Oh trust me, I feel the same way.
In fact, if you look at the fact the PG/CPU is already taken out; you could basically just use the Advanced tier and wind up with pretty much the same stats. |
Rasputin La'Gar
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
29
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Apparently they don't want the dropships to become battleships Look at the trailer. See those flying planes? I think we'll be getting those |
SquaggaTCT
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
OR they could just take out that stupid cru and give me more tankin powa! |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1062
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rasputin La'Gar wrote:Apparently they don't want the dropships to become battleships Look at the trailer. See those flying planes? I think we'll be getting those
Honestly, the Dropship should have the highest survivability as it requires at least one other person to be combat effective.
Just my standpoint though. All it is is a giant LAV with wings atm; and it doesn't even do that very well. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
82
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:SquaggaTCT wrote:Why do the prototype dropships have lower pg/cpu than the lower classed ones? I mean .. it just doesnt make sense The current theory is because of the built-in CRU, but as I've previously stated the amount of PG/CPU taken would equal out to what you would have used on a mobile CRU in the first place; so it's redundant. It's basically an "additional" high-powered slot that is already filled with the PG/CPU taken out for you against your will. and at stupid cost |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1062
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nguruthos IX wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:SquaggaTCT wrote:Why do the prototype dropships have lower pg/cpu than the lower classed ones? I mean .. it just doesnt make sense The current theory is because of the built-in CRU, but as I've previously stated the amount of PG/CPU taken would equal out to what you would have used on a mobile CRU in the first place; so it's redundant. It's basically an "additional" high-powered slot that is already filled with the PG/CPU taken out for you against your will. and at stupid cost
Right? Thing has less CPU/PG than a militia variant and they give you -more- slots to try and fit some sort of tank with that. Basically giving you a bigger wallet but taking all the money out of it. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1909
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Rasputin La'Gar wrote:Apparently they don't want the dropships to become battleships Look at the trailer. See those flying planes? I think we'll be getting those Honestly, the Dropship should have the highest survivability as it requires at least one other person to be combat effective. Just my standpoint though. All it is is a giant LAV with wings atm; and it doesn't even do that very well. Dropships have wings?
Since when?
More seriously though, they're TRANSPORTS, not ATTACK HELICOPTERS.
There was at least one early (pre-UE, I think) video with fighters, so that's a possibility. So are gunships and bombers. |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1062
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Rasputin La'Gar wrote:Apparently they don't want the dropships to become battleships Look at the trailer. See those flying planes? I think we'll be getting those Honestly, the Dropship should have the highest survivability as it requires at least one other person to be combat effective. Just my standpoint though. All it is is a giant LAV with wings atm; and it doesn't even do that very well. Dropships have wings? Since when? More seriously though, they're TRANSPORTS, not ATTACK HELICOPTERS. There was at least one early (pre-UE, I think) video with fighters, so that's a possibility. So are gunships and bombers.
............ I'm going to wait for you to re-read my post and then reflect on how silly your response was.
More seriously though, they're TRANSPORTS, not ATTACK HELICOPTERS.
They should at least live long enough to effectively do what they're supposed to.
And for that record, when the blazing hell have Attack Helicopters ever been more resilient than Transport Helicopters? |
SquaggaTCT
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
I didnt say I wanted bigger guns. I SAID I WANTED MORE ARMOR AND LESS BLUE DOTS. God |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1062
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
SquaggaTCT wrote:I didnt say I wanted bigger guns. I SAID I WANTED MORE ARMOR AND LESS BLUE DOTS. God
Annnnd I whole heartedly agree with you - no reason to get upset mate.
Dropships should have more survivability in order to make more effective Transports, we've been saying that for a long time now.
Prototype Dropships aren't the only thing that's absolutely broken. The Prototype LAVs claim to have an infantry repair module that can repair two dropsuits at once but they... Well, they don't. It's just a suped up transport. |
SquaggaTCT
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
I was yelling at the Garret guy. However since we're at it .. I wouldnt be disapointed if dropships were more like apache helicopters |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1062
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
SquaggaTCT wrote:I was yelling at the Garret guy. However since we're at it .. I wouldnt be disapointed if dropships were more like apache helicopters
****, I wouldn't mind if they had a single Large Turret to be honest. Be like a C130 Spectre.
Imagine mounting a Large Railgun to that son of a *****... |
SquaggaTCT
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
I dont want a railgun on my dropship ever, A blaster would be nice though |
dabest2evadoit7
Cyberdyne Systems and Technology The Revenant Order
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
[[/quote]And for that record, when the blazing hell have Attack Helicopters ever been more resilient than Transport Helicopters?[/quote] Very good point here. |
Drommy Hood
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
255
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Considering there is no main armament, there is absolutely no reason for such poor tanking stats. It's their job to get in and out of sticky situations dropping off troops and picking them up again. It can't use large reppers, which I agree with, it shouldn't be able to tank damage, but t should be able to have enough of a buffer to survive the an encounter with a rail gun, and they should stop getting tipped upside down by stuff, when a clone takes a face full of rail does his body fly 50ft through the air? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1909
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:............ I'm going to wait for you to re-read my post and then reflect on how silly your response was.
More seriously though, they're TRANSPORTS, not ATTACK HELICOPTERS.
They should at least live long enough to effectively do what they're supposed to.
And for that record, when the blazing hell have Attack Helicopters ever been more resilient than Transport Helicopters? Firstly, here's the bit where I replied to your post:
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:All it is is a giant LAV with wings atm; and it doesn't even do that very well. Dropships have wings? Since when? Silly? Yeah. It kind of was. THAT WAS THE POINT. Thanks for noticing.
And back onto the main topic (thus being serious again)...
The current Dropship models have been designed with the TRANSPORT side of things emphasised more heavily. A CRU is a good benefit when you're meant to be operating as a transport. Also, in the real world, the balance between anti-air weapons and aircraft is pretty much one-hit-kill on both transports and gunships. Either one can potentially survive a surface-to-air missile, but neither is likely to stay in the air long after taking a hit.
Transport = ability to carry passengers. THAT is the core consideration for the role. Speed and durability are secondary to that aspect. I'm expecting that a fighter or other smaller aircraft will be even MORE fragile than the Dropship, but maybe at that point Dropships will get the buff they sort of need in that regard. |
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Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1064
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 10:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:............ I'm going to wait for you to re-read my post and then reflect on how silly your response was.
More seriously though, they're TRANSPORTS, not ATTACK HELICOPTERS.
They should at least live long enough to effectively do what they're supposed to.
And for that record, when the blazing hell have Attack Helicopters ever been more resilient than Transport Helicopters? Firstly, here's the bit where I replied to your post: Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:All it is is a giant LAV with wings atm; and it doesn't even do that very well. Dropships have wings? Since when? Silly? Yeah. It kind of was. THAT WAS THE POINT. Thanks for noticing. And back onto the main topic (thus being serious again)... The current Dropship models have been designed with the TRANSPORT side of things emphasised more heavily. A CRU is a good benefit when you're meant to be operating as a transport. Also, in the real world, the balance between anti-air weapons and aircraft is pretty much one-hit-kill on both transports and gunships. Either one can potentially survive a surface-to-air missile, but neither is likely to stay in the air long after taking a hit. Transport = ability to carry passengers. THAT is the core consideration for the role. Speed and durability are secondary to that aspect. I'm expecting that a fighter or other smaller aircraft will be even MORE fragile than the Dropship, but maybe at that point Dropships will get the buff they sort of need in that regard.
My point was that I was commenting that it was an LAV with wings, not a Dropship with wings (such would be redundant). This was a correlation to it's resilience.
If they made Fighters more fragile than Dropships - I can guarantee that absolutely NO-ONE would use them because a single Mass Driver round could kill them. Hell, I'm almost certain a deadeye shot with a Laser Rifle would be able to kill them.
Current Dropships can't take more than two Railgun shots, Forge Guns are a nightmare (faster tracking) and Swarm Launchers are the absolute bane of a Dropship Pilot.
And don't even get me started on Blasters or AV Grenades.
|
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1910
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 10:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:My point was that I was commenting that it was an LAV with wings, not a Dropship with wings (such would be redundant). This was a correlation to it's resilience.
If they made Fighters more fragile than Dropships - I can guarantee that absolutely NO-ONE would use them because a single Mass Driver round could kill them. Hell, I'm almost certain a deadeye shot with a Laser Rifle would be able to kill them.
Current Dropships can't take more than two Railgun shots, Forge Guns are a nightmare (faster tracking) and Swarm Launchers are the absolute bane of a Dropship Pilot.
And don't even get me started on Blasters or AV Grenades. And my comment about wings hadn't been a serious response, as I already said, so I'll leave it at that.
As for resilience, a cheap Dropship can, with a good pilot and the right skills, tank the first volley from an Advanced Swarm Launcher and carry on. Spend just as much on your LAV, and you're still going to die in one shot. They aren't as durable as HAVs, but they're not meant to be. |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1068
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 12:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:My point was that I was commenting that it was an LAV with wings, not a Dropship with wings (such would be redundant). This was a correlation to it's resilience.
If they made Fighters more fragile than Dropships - I can guarantee that absolutely NO-ONE would use them because a single Mass Driver round could kill them. Hell, I'm almost certain a deadeye shot with a Laser Rifle would be able to kill them.
Current Dropships can't take more than two Railgun shots, Forge Guns are a nightmare (faster tracking) and Swarm Launchers are the absolute bane of a Dropship Pilot.
And don't even get me started on Blasters or AV Grenades. And my comment about wings hadn't been a serious response, as I already said, so I'll leave it at that. As for resilience, a cheap Dropship can, with a good pilot and the right skills, tank the first volley from an Advanced Swarm Launcher and carry on. Spend just as much on your LAV, and you're still going to die in one shot. They aren't as durable as HAVs, but they're not meant to be.
Why not, exactly? What is this cliche that Dropships -HAVE- to be less durable than practically anything else in game simply because they ferry troops from one side of the battlefield to the other? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1910
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 12:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:They aren't as durable as HAVs, but they're not meant to be. Why not, exactly? What is this cliche that Dropships -HAVE- to be less durable than practically anything else in game simply because they ferry troops from one side of the battlefield to the other? How exactly is the second most durable playable option in the game less durable than practically anything else?
There isn't a single suit that can outmatch a Dropship's EHP, and they're practically immune to small arms fire, and can be fitted to survive hits that will one-shot even high-tier versions of half the ground vehicle types in the game. |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1068
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 12:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:They aren't as durable as HAVs, but they're not meant to be. Why not, exactly? What is this cliche that Dropships -HAVE- to be less durable than practically anything else in game simply because they ferry troops from one side of the battlefield to the other? How exactly is the second most durable playable option in the game less durable than practically anything else? There isn't a single suit that can outmatch a Dropship's EHP, and they're practically immune to small arms fire, and can be fitted to survive hits that will one-shot even high-tier versions of half the ground vehicle types in the game.
And they cost extensively more.... |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1910
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 12:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:They aren't as durable as HAVs, but they're not meant to be. Why not, exactly? What is this cliche that Dropships -HAVE- to be less durable than practically anything else in game simply because they ferry troops from one side of the battlefield to the other? How exactly is the second most durable playable option in the game less durable than practically anything else? There isn't a single suit that can outmatch a Dropship's EHP, and they're practically immune to small arms fire, and can be fitted to survive hits that will one-shot even high-tier versions of half the ground vehicle types in the game. And they cost extensively more.... And HAVs cost significantly more than Dropships, so why shouldn't they be stronger? |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1068
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 13:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:They aren't as durable as HAVs, but they're not meant to be. Why not, exactly? What is this cliche that Dropships -HAVE- to be less durable than practically anything else in game simply because they ferry troops from one side of the battlefield to the other? How exactly is the second most durable playable option in the game less durable than practically anything else? There isn't a single suit that can outmatch a Dropship's EHP, and they're practically immune to small arms fire, and can be fitted to survive hits that will one-shot even high-tier versions of half the ground vehicle types in the game. And they cost extensively more.... And HAVs cost significantly more than Dropships, so why shouldn't they be stronger?
I'm not saying that HAVs shouldn't be stronger, you fabricated that statement. I'm stating that they cost more than everything else; thereby they should last long enough to make the investment worth while and any member of this community will tell you that they don't.
And we're not talking about just the dropship either, we're talking about the baseline fittings to make it even remotely flyable.
To top it all off the main issue is that it doesn't last long enough to do it's job effectively, sure you can get the guys there but that's about it. It's a one-way trip and when it goes down there's no way to control where you fall, 9/10 it's going to fall ontop of you so there's the ISK from the suit and all of your buddies dying too. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
239
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 13:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
I would like to ask of you guys to do me a favour.
The ideas in this thread are brilliant, and I want to add them to my thread here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=596367#post59636
Unfortunately for me, I'm in a half-delirious state after wasting 1.5 mill on flying doomed expeditions in my dropships, and am in no current state to do so right now.
So if one of you guys could post this threads link to that thread I listed above, I would be eternally greatful. You see, when I wake up I'll probably forget this thread existed, but I will remember that other thread because I've put reminders everywhere (bad memory issues) so if you post a link to this there, I will re read it when I'm actually awake and not sulking over my losses and add these awesome thoughts to the thread. Credits will be given when I finish that thread, if ever
Edit: thanks again, and goodnight. Keep arguing by the way. Conflict usually generates a resolution both parties agree on, and this solution is generally very good, for lack of a better word. Good... Uh, better. No, more neutral. I mean that the solution will be better for both sides. Something lie that. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 13:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don't see the issue with dropship survivability. A properly fit one tanks a couple of forgegun shots, shrugs off tons of swarms and fits an AB to get out if AV gets too strong. If it weren't for their inability to hurt people they'd be OP, to be honest. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1910
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 13:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:I'm not saying that HAVs shouldn't be stronger, you fabricated that statement. I'm stating that they cost more than everything else; thereby they should last long enough to make the investment worth while and any member of this community will tell you that they don't.
And we're not talking about just the dropship either, we're talking about the baseline fittings to make it even remotely flyable.
To top it all off the main issue is that it doesn't last long enough to do it's job effectively, sure you can get the guys there but that's about it. It's a one-way trip and when it goes down there's no way to control where you fall, 9/10 it's going to fall ontop of you so there's the ISK from the suit and all of your buddies dying too. The problem isn't with dropships themselves (bear with me here)...
The problem is with SMALL TURRETS on Dropships.
When you're airborne, you're EITHER an easy target OR outside your own range. They need a range buff - at least when mounted on aircraft. Dropships can't defend themselves - or their passengers - effectively, and THAT makes them more frail than the numbers (and their ability to survive hits that LAVs can't) would suggest. |
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