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Swarm Spammer
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.03.07 03:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
I made this alt to be a AV specialist, I just started it today, and I know I have no realistic expectations for it to be able to kill a Surya, a Madrugar, or even a well-pimped Soma. I know that. But that's the point of this thread, a new player has no hope of defeating a PRO or STD or even some MLT HAVs with his MLT/STD fit, so how is that new player supposed to be able to skill up to the other guy's levels when all that people ever use now is STD and PRO? I'm not saying I should be able to kill better stuff with my free gear. Just hear this out.
Don't tell me to work in a team, let's make up a scenario and treat me as a newberry and expect me to have no concept of this 'teamwork' you speak of. Don't say HTFU, because I am a COD newb and will leave this game (and I represent the vast majority of this game's audience) and will cry to my friends this game sucks, destroying even more of the already small audience this game has. Don't say try something else, because it is you, the people, who constantly say the 'rock paper scissors' theory holds this game's balance together, and if no one can start a new AV person at the same rate people make new HAV persons, then the 'rock paper scissors' theory falls apart.
So tell me now, as someone who is pure AV, could maybe get three kills a game with his sidearm, can't kill any of the tanks out there, how am I expected to accumulate enough SP to skill into better gear so I can at least dent those STD tanks, and maybe scratch those PRO tanks?
The same idea goes for infantry vs infantry, on my main, I do well. However, on my main I skilled into almost all passive skills, and almost nothing into gear skills. So I am using STD gear on my main. Despite this, I do well, and I know that K/DR is not an indicator of ultimate skill, but I still think I do well with a 4.2 ratio. On this character, that I have played since the reset, I am constantly cut in half by anything PRO. Working as intended? It was my understanding that gear was supposed to give subtle increases per tier, not two-shot abilities over everyone that isn't also PRO. I am not exaggerating the two-shot example. People with mass drivers can two shot me with splash damage, ARs can five-ish shot me, SMGs can ten-ish shot me, laser rifles can insta-kill me on contact with the beam. (I have roughly 450 EHP)
All of this is on my character that I have played for just as long as the people who are wrecking me. So what about the new people? The newberries that will have a less than 300 EHP, and even if they had supreme skill, could be OHK'd by most everything?
I know that this is partly due to f*ck ups on CCP's part, that f*ck up being the bugged damage mods, but that's also part of the point. CCP has let this little bug run on for, and I think I speak for everyone, WAY TOO ******* LONG. What happens when another glitch pops up at the start of a new build? Wait six months for CCP to make another build that may or may not fix that bug? That's six months of new players joining, realizing this game is bugged to hell, and quitting. And then this game dies like MAG.
Maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist, contemplating the demise of this game, but I feel this is a real issue that has no real solution. PvE could help if it awarded SP (and I hope it will) but just like everything else we were promised (ex: full size maps, fighters, gunships, MAVs, MTACs, pilot dropsuits, command dropsuits, player-dropped installations, the RPS element, FW, all racial suits, flaylock pistol, scrambler rifle, even more guns, ammunition types, gun customization, etc. etc. etc. even more etc.) all those things are a very, very, SOONGäó, long time away.
Oh, I forgot to mention, the whole 'this is beta' argument has also dragged for too long, betas are meant for polishing game mechanics, not for discovering game breaking damage bugs, that stuff is for alpha.
TL;DR? I want more of that stuff I listed in the paragraph two above this sentence.
Commence your hate comments on me. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
3016
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Posted - 2013.03.07 03:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
As a lone wolf who was militia locked in the previous reset/build
As a lone wolf in this build slowly gearing up the wrong way to type 1 gear I can still put down any proto, tanks included.
I could still skill protos just as easily I could militia's the only major difference was the sort of player I was shooting.
Standing still in a proto will get you killed by my forge gun, will get you killed by a grenade, will get you killed by a sniper headshot.
Just because you're in a proto-suit it doesnt magically mean that militia bullets magically stop hurting.
Because they still hurt, and they still kill.
With a basic AR you and minimal newbie skills you can down any other suit with at least a full clip, the only one you're going to reload on is probably the heavy suit if he's uninjured.
Beta/Alpha whatever it is still a game in progress it is still version 0.7 right now and version 1.0 isn't til summer 2013. |
Coleman Gray
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2013.03.07 03:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aim for buggies ect instead? I still see alot of militia tanks about, just keep at it and don't give up, or don't use the free anti armour class and go medic starter instead to get some points to begin with? |
KING CHECKMATE
unlight9
5
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Posted - 2013.03.07 03:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
well this is not a ''hate'' comment just an idea on how to go ahead and get your game on as a AV.
I found out that FORGE GUNS are highly effective AV weapon since its basically a railgun.If you have them on sight and your aim is good you shoot, you hit. I found this is specially effective vs Fast dropships that like to dodge and leave your swarm missiles effective range.
This plus a Decent Submachinegun (like the Assault one) and some AV granades (packed if possible ) should give you and edge vs vehicles, and leave you with something to defend yourself vs infantry,(1 shot Forge Gun + 80 Submachinegun Bullets. 2-3 kills.HEY!)
When no vehicles are found you can always use a basic Type one assault with AR + Submachinegun, or snipe, or heal whatever you want, but with cheap loadouts so you save Skills+ISK for better Anti Vehicle loadouts.
If you have a 4.2 k/d this means you are a above avarege player that surely already understands the game.CAll in LAV, go up a mountain, let the Forgegun RAin. And if they get too close to you, 3 AV grenades plus 1-2 shots of a Forge gun should do the trick.
Remember to shoot at tanks when you see that they are not at a few seconds of taking cover. Or you will be just wasting ammo....
Just saying..
(plus what IRON SABER said). |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
76
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Posted - 2013.03.07 03:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
OP, you should maybe come back later. Rome wasn't built in a day. Official release is probably 5 or 6 months off, and even then not everything you were "promised" will be in. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
313
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Posted - 2013.03.07 03:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
My response is threefold:
Passive SP (timed Active SP & and actual Passive SP)
LAVs
Be a mini Logi/Hacker
I get about as many kills from Swarming LAVs as from my AR and SMG combined. I get most of my WP from hacking, uplinks, and nanohives.
Also, just training into good Swarms and AV Grenades is not a long-term investment. Sure, you'll want other basic technical skills and such; but, most newberries will go after the weapons skills first anyway.
Blow up LAVs, hack stuff, and drop support equipment and soon enough you can use Packed AV Grenades and CBR7 Swarm Launchers. Those two are enough to at least scare most high-end tanks. The LOLfit ones will even pop for you. |
Aqil Aegivan
The Southern Legion
79
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Posted - 2013.03.07 03:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
As far as SP is concerned, you get most of it by just standing around (ISK too). Newbies will be able to level up and buy gear just like everyone else. I do think refinements to matchmaking are needed to help with the discouraging aspects of getting beat down but this would be a factor even if the game were completely flat.
Starter fits are free and militia gear is cheap (especially in light of its relative effectiveness).
With rewards set at their current rate there is little difference in reward between good players and hopeless ones. There is certainly no brick wall in terms of ISK or SP. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
Red Rock Consortium
321
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 04:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Swarm Spammer wrote:I made this alt to be a AV specialist, I just started it today, and I know I have no realistic expectations for it to be able to kill a Surya, a Madrugar, or even a well-pimped Soma. I know that. But that's the point of this thread, a new player has no hope of defeating a PRO or STD or even some MLT HAVs with his MLT/STD fit, so how is that new player supposed to be able to skill up to the other guy's levels when all that people ever use now is STD and PRO? I'm not saying I should be able to kill better stuff with my free gear. Just hear this out.
People call in a lot of LAVs. If you wait until they've boarded you get one to three kills on top of the vehicle kill. You'll want to be in skirmish for more targets. I mostly run logistics but AV is my secondary and maps like Manus Peak are full of targets. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
649
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Posted - 2013.03.07 04:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Good post, OP. +1
I agree wholeheartedly on many points. I feel you hit the nail on the head with some of the frusturation with waiting for updates and promised features. And your right. This should not be labeled a beta, it should be labeled open alpha.
Specifically, I think there is a role for light tanks in the game to fix the AV vs. tanks starting out issue.
Essentially, you have to play as something else for a while like medic to accumulate SP to be effective and invest them in your chosen role. Tanks cannot be driven (well) for a while, and once they can, it shuts out new AV players.
A light tank class would be significantly cheaper than even militia HAVs. They would be more of a Medium Attack Vehicle, packing more armor than an LAV but less than a HAV.
This is where most tankers would spend a lot of time in until they skilled up to HAVs. Costing less skillpoints and ISK, but also less armored and with less damage potential, they would be essentially a budget tank for pilots. Lost an exlensive HAV? Bring out the light tank.
With more players in a less dangerous tank, new AV players would have more oppurtunities to demonstrate their role. Currently there is no stepping stone to HAV. This causes a breakdown in SP accrual for AV characters due to lack and difficulty of targets.
By making the light tank unlocked by the same skills as HAV skills, it would also stop the trend of tank drivers not driving tanks when they are losing ISK or when they are initially skilling towards tanks.
Does this make sense at all? Or am I just nuts? I appreciate feedback... |
Harkon Vysarii
Dead Six Initiative
12
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Posted - 2013.03.07 04:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
I know you didnt want me to say this but....teaming up is a good idea.
AV Grenades can be used from vantage points to herd tanks to open area for Forge Gunners and Swarmers to take out....
Ill admit those pimped out HAV's really can take a beating....but hell if a guy wants to drop a 5 million isk investment onto the field his tanks should be damn tough.
But a fully specced AV trooper should be able to deal some serious damage to those nasty armour plated monstrousities. |
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Tiel Syysch
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
657
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Posted - 2013.03.07 04:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
If you intended to be purely AV, you should have advanced AV day 1 with the initial unallocated SP.
AV is also probably one of the least WP-rewarding roles you can take up, but the majority of SP you earn is from time spent in matches, not your performance in them, so getting character progression isn't a huge problem. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
67
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Posted - 2013.03.07 05:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
the current matchmaker seems to want to mix vets with newbies and ideally the vets would be the main dmging force on the tank and the newbie would just be additional dmg. However, it doesn't always workout like that, pub matches tend to be disorganized and impossible to predict player behavior. While not impossible to solo kill a good tank with a militia weapon that has no sp skills, I would see it as a minor miracle.
Some things that don't take much sp
1. av gren spam with a nanohive. Sometimes you can even lure them up to where you are, then surprise with gren spam.
2. prox mine trap. (note you can get 6 mines out at a time) They will either stop and shoot them or run over them, which can be nice either way.
3. Droplinks work great for setting up your av base of operations because chances are you are going to die a couple times.
4. It really doesn't take that much sp to train into advanced av weapons, but to use them with bonuses it takes alot.
5. And my favorite, but it's more just for fun and tends not to kill them. Ram a lav at full speed in their rear, jump out just before it explodes, While throwing all of your av grens, jump up on top of the tank turret and swarm fire straight down. fit cheap, youre probably going to die. |
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